How fast can you take this civ to space?

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I have recently played this game and I won a space race victory in 1896, which, considering map, was rather shameful, even though it's one of my earliest space victories.

The thing is, the leader is Hannibal, who is a financial leader, so that means easier time rexing/conquering, better tech rates, and the start is overpowered.

Despite all these, I only managed that pathetically late victory, playing prince/normal. I would like to see, if anyone's interested, how other people fare better than me here, what they do better, because I surely know that there's a lot of room for improvement for me. :D The only thing I would like to ask, if anyone offers to play this, is that you aim for a space victory.

If anyone wishes to play more similarly to how I did, you can try:
Spoiler :

... some early conquering. You can take two civs out rather easily, maybe even three with enough planning. In my game, I eliminated both Justinian and Huyana Capac BCE, getting two-three wonders in the process. :)


The map was generated for a prince game, although I changed "handicap prince" with "handicap noble" in the WB. I don't know how to make more difficult versions of this, I mean, the ones with archery and whatever else is in those maps better players play. :)

One last note, about the WB save: there is an attribute in it, if you view it with a text editor, "WhiteFlag". For the vanilla version of BtS, and, I think, for the BUG moded version of the game, the value of this parameter is as it should be in the WB. If you want to play BAT, you'll have to change its value to 1 (replace "WhiteFlag=0" with "WhiteFlag=1"), otherwise you'll get an ugly flag, as I did in this screenshot. But again, this isn't required normally.
View attachment AstroHannibal.zip
 

michmbk

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I saved this - may give it a go after seeing the capital's full BFC. Pretty loaded start, especially for a FIN/CHA leader. Definitely will turn huts off though, since i don't like them, so that may skew comparability if you got a tech or two with huts.
 

lymond

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i'll give this a go soon...i expect a 500AD space win.......NOT

edit: cool, a WB save...i can use BUFFY

edit2: uncool, normal speed
 

TheMeInTeam

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If it's a WB save can't it be saved as a scenario and then you can select your own speed?

Yes, but you better make sure the #turns line is set correctly so that you don't win or lose a time victory 500 turns in, which is 1/3 of a marathon game.

Oh, but changing game speed instantly invalidates any worth in comparison (as does difficulty, to a lesser extent), just so you know.
 

michmbk

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1st segment - to 125 AD. Obviously not playing for space early...

Spoiler :

After working about 16 hours a day the last three days, I need a walk in the park game. Not sure if the WB save is buggy or not, but I tried to turn off huts and events and they still show up. Oh well - Check out that capital:



Prince means warrior rush…start on warriors and find first target – yay – free second capital with religion:





Oh, look, copper and horses in two city BFCs. Might as well keep going, considering the UU isn’t far away…Hello Huayna…



Goodbye Huayna. And the snowball effect continues - HA rushes are killers.



He doesn’t have metal. Bad, bad news.



And, why not take the whole continent – it’ll pay off later.



I gave him 10 turns of peace to get a couple techs:



Barbs were a pain – kept showing up everywhere and ransacking a few improvements. Courthouses and cottages starting to come in now – empire will blow the world away soon enough. There I am in 125 AD:



On prince, all that took was about 35 numidan cavalry and 4-5 warriors. Now time to right the economy with cottages
 

lymond

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If it's a WB save can't it be saved as a scenario and then you can select your own speed?

yes, but as TMIT correctly noted this would invalidate the comparison
 

iggymnrr

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Nice start with rivers for some sweet cottages. Settle in place to avoid the probable 1-off coast problems North, visible by the cows. Moving off that hill looks pointless. Worker first or warrior rush or both? Be nice if that hut popped the wheel or a settler that can simply mosey up near an AI so that you can build warriors right away. 3 warriors will probably be enough to eliminate someone by turn 25 or so. Forget if settlers can be popped at that level.
 

iggymnrr

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Gave this a shot through turn 26.
Spoiler :
Settled in place, popped a bit of gold. Decided on a GW/warrior rush opening so worked the pigs while building 4 warriors then a worker. AI was obviously either east or south so 1st warrior continued east and popped a scout which went north and popped the wheel. Met Justinian from the south so all warriors headed that way. Did some snooping, popped some more gold, healed from a lion when a worker/warrior appeared. DoWed on turn 24, got the worker, lost a warrior. With 3 warriors parked outside the cap, waited a couple turns for the city to pop up 2 and snagged it for the price of 2 more warriors. Justinian did not have a religion.
Tech path: masonry/BW/Agriculture. Obviously I plan on chopping the GW.
 

lymond

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I've never popped a settler or worker from a hut on any level - didn't know it was possible
 

TheMeInTeam

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I just can't stand worker micro and it hurts.

I landed 1820 AD

Spoiler :












The only BAD luck I had was when warrior rushing justinian ----> this auto-razed his capitol and I had to settle 1S of it for horse to continue.

Nobody put up much military resistance, and monarchy/calendary/currency were the order of the day here.

I could have saved more turns by swapping in some workshops at the end...more laziness.

 

michmbk

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1818 - totally bonehead play late as I never go space. Got you by one turn TMIT!!! We both were sloppy or it would have been in the 1700s.

Spoiler :


I mess with Washington again – knock him down to 1 city, and then take peace for two more techs. 10 turns later…he’s done. Barb city taken as well, and then fill out island. Oh yeah, built this for later when the empire is fully functional.



Then this dude is finally born



He immediately makes ridiculous hindu holy city. From here, settle like crazy, cottage, hindu missionaries here and there, and cruise to lib in 1090. From here, turned workers on auto. Went nat for taj. During the golden age, made all the key civic switches. Kinda forgot to do the aesthetics line, but never needed happiness. Also never bothered with a GP farm.

Um, clearly the other continent is not doing well:



Notre Dame in 1400 AD – funny. And hey, first meeting:



He’s a little behind - note I'm researching plastics and he still doesn't have calendar.. This guy is a tad behind too:



Anyway, just founded sushi, mining, spread them around, and cruised to space. Sorta forgot to build labs for the most part and forgot about space elevator. Still managed to have a little fun…





And all done.





 

iggymnrr

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Nice dates all! I've only gotten to turn 89: tech blitzing/wonder spamming/axe rushing despite some bad random events.
Spoiler :
Did chop out the GW and put out a settler to claim the marble/rice/FP site. No border pops need. This map is so tree heavy ... well I couldn't lay off the wonder chopping. Sent the captured worker back to Carthage to speed up things and improve 7 tiles before moving on to building a road towards HC. Took a while for me to find him but axes were already being built for SOMEONE. Had enough gold to blitz off math/lit and CoL in time to snag CS from Oracle. Sent like 10-11 axe at HC then lost my barracks to a random event. (Would have lost two buildings but Carthage only had a barracks/GW/Oracle at the time.)

Meanwhile Justinian's capitol built warrior/worker/axes/library. Marble city went granary/axes/library. Barbs all over the place. Hehe.

Turn 89 recap: HC is dead with 2 turns left on currency, 10 turns on Parthenon, 10 turns on GL-- these are getting cottage-chopped. 5 cities, 3 workers and SH from HC. 3 religions since I founded one as did HC. Charlie is missionary spamming me.
 
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Thank you all for deciding to try this out, and thank you for offering your own versions of the game, it's definitely insightful to see how others do. :D After more players finish this one, I will add the finish dates and links to their posts in the starting post.

About the WB save, I changed maxturns to 0; is that enough to make other speeds possible? I'm not entirely sure about changing WBs, I'd feel stupid if this were unplayable for marathon/epic/quick. :)

About speed... marathon is my favourite, but I am currently playing a string of normal speed games to be able to squeeze more games in my time and to learn more about the game. ;)
You can change the speed if you wish. Sure, it will invalidate the comparison, but the thing which helps me most is seeing tech path after liberalism here + how much liberalism was postponed; and it's important that you people have fun. :D
 

TheMeInTeam

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Yeah another narrow date finish win for michmbk...reminds me of mad mad world :p. We both underachieved though. I agree that 1700's would be easy with micro and probably 1600's is possible.

Maxturns=0 should make other speeds playable. There's always my guide in my sig if you need to polish up on the WB edits.

I think it's important to point out that I barely built any courthouses this game. I spammed cities + cottaged. I was hammer poor but once I hit CoL I went priest ---> golden age (used 1st one on shrine), starve for some GS, bulb edu, bulb astro, bulb sci meth. But after lib--->nat I went straight for democracy to grow cottages.

Thanks to the bulbs I was so close to SP I said "screw courthouses" and switched into that. I deliberately avoided space elevator and didn't bother with internet since it wouldn't give me anything I cared about. Due to the city count a golden age made cottages + levees (in cities that had those) respectable, and I had at least kremlin $$$ bought TGD for continent power, meaning > 3/4 of the ship was built in a golden age.

My biggest slowdowns were auto workers, the unintentional razing, and a slight bogging on the last AI I fought.
 
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@TMIT
@michmbk
Spoiler :

You both did something which I didn't even consider, and which seems to be great, I'll keep in mind for later: you conquered as much as you could early on. I unfortunately decided to never attack Charlemagne and Washington. I think at least taking Charlemagne out of the picture would have been better for me, since I was at 2x strength with him after finishing HC, and since his religiousness forced me to make a compromise I would have rather done without: no free religion, so no research bonus.


@TMIT:
Spoiler :

Does SP offer a great advantage? Is it a mandatory civic for earliest space race possible? I didn't use slavery in this game, and I've never used SP so far, but if it's required for early space race victories, I might go with the "it's just a game" thing for the SP civic. :)

Also, do you remember your tech path after democracy? Or do you have a log of the game you can copy here? I am particularly interested in how assembly line came into the picture, for the factories. I also teched railroads for the Mining Inc, but I guess it's no point asking you, since you were in SP.


@michmbk:
Spoiler :

Yup, the other continent was truly backwards in my game as well. I managed to finish the great lighthouse around 1000 CE. :) I was actually never even considering it, thinking it should have been built already and that I was just wasting time, so other wonders took precedence, but at one point, I went for it as well. :)

Could you please post your tech path post liberalism? I'm particularly interested in how assembly line, for factories, and railroad, for Mining Inc, came into the picture.


Thank you both! :D
 

iggymnrr

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920 AD. I can't fight a war and micro simultaneous! Need sleep.
Spoiler :
Pyramids have not yet been built!!! One city left to old Charlie: maces and trebs. Can still build chariots for cheap defense and taking the odd barb city or two. No bulbing yet. 2 academies and 3 gps in reserve (astro bulb?). Self researched PP/Ed and 1 turn from philo. Been running Charlie's religion so I could settle in his face without war worries. Really tired. Need sleep.
 

michmbk

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Yeah another narrow date finish win for michmbk...reminds me of mad mad world :p. We both underachieved though. I agree that 1700's would be easy with micro and probably 1600's is possible.

I think it's important to point out that I barely built any courthouses this game. I spammed cities + cottaged. I was hammer poor but once I hit CoL I went priest ---> golden age (used 1st one on shrine), starve for some GS, bulb edu, bulb astro, bulb sci meth. But after lib--->nat I went straight for democracy to grow cottages.

Thanks to the bulbs I was so close to SP I said "screw courthouses" and switched into that. I deliberately avoided space elevator and didn't bother with internet since it wouldn't give me anything I cared about. Due to the city count a golden age made cottages + levees (in cities that had those) respectable, and I had at least kremlin $$$ bought TGD for continent power, meaning > 3/4 of the ship was built in a golden age.

My biggest slowdowns were auto workers, the unintentional razing, and a slight bogging on the last AI I fought.

Pretty similar to me except I built all the courthouses, and never bulbed. In the mid-game, went lib-nat then straight up to democracy for cottages. Didn't even pop my second great person until lib! Just about every tile was cottaged. Kremlin, of course, and bought TGD. Started in SP, but decided to switch to FM at fusion, use a merchant for sushi and engineer for mining to get size and hammers. Forgot about elevator and labs. Most parts were 6-7 turns.

Burned my third golden age a bit too early - should have waited until building parts.

Hindsight, I think great wall followed by killing everyone with horses would have been better. I lost a settler and a worker to barbs, and had a few other barb unit problems requiring me to waste whips.

All those workers really got irritating too - didn't want to auto them until I had enough cottages laid down.
 

michmbk

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In response to civilized tiger:

Spoiler :

TMIT and I typically both play pretty similarly, except he's much, much better at managing diplo and getting wins through UN or AP. But we both love using horses to conquer the world, and on this level, there's no reason not to swarm the continent - the AI won't research well enough to speed space along anyway. Horse archers can be absolutely devastating to clear your continent, especially when you have a few gold mines as we did in our capital and Justin's capital. The AI can't handle a well executed HA rush. The AI would have been wiped even faster if I had a regular HA, because I faced almost all archers - the NC actually hurt me a bit from that standpoint.

I finished GLH around 1000 as well - same reason as you. There was so much good cottage land that all I cared about post lib/nat was printing press and democracy. From there, I watched my tech rate go through the roof. After democracy, I headed straight to physics/communism for the great people, then toward rocketry. I played a little dumb there, using the higher level space race plan to head to fusion, genetics and superconductors (on higher levels I'll usually use the internet to get the other space techs). Kind of forgot about assembly line for awhile, so I didn't prioritize it, but once I hit it, built all the factories and rushed TGD.

When I was running state property, I was gold positive at 90% tech. On a higher level, I would have definitely run state property - with all that land, it's a gamebreaking civic. Since tech rate wasn't the issue, I switched to free market as I was heading to fusion. Founded sushi, alumco and mining, and spread them around. As a result, huge, productive cities.

State property probably still was the better play - did you see TMIT's tech rate at the end - 5700 beakers a turn! I was at about 4000, but I bet it would have been even higher in free religion and SP (I ran pacifism a long time because I needed a state religion for Sankore and didn't have a lot of military).

 
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