How I finally beat Prince

[linchpin]

I played a lot of CivII, not much CivIII, and my playing experiences have been only on the lower difficulties. I am a recovering builaholic and have been sober for about 5 games now.

My strategy that eventually led me to win my first prince game was very simple: I repeated to my self, over and over, “I will NOT build ANY wonders!” Every time my mouse drifted to one of those shiny big shield options, I would repeat my pledge.

The advantages of not building wonders:

More early expansion. Not building Stonehenge, oracle, pyramids, Parthenon ect gives you more shields for fore soldiers, workers and settlers. One well placed city will vastly outweigh any advantage of any wonder any time.

More great people. Yes, wonders are worthless for generating great people compared to specialists. Using the specialist technique you get exactly the type of person you want when you want them, no more hoping for that scientist.

A war machine. Typically wonders need to be built in good production cities which means that these cities aren’t working on units. What good is a big shiny statue if the city is in flames around it?

Strategy independence. This is important to me. I no longer have a strategy where I “HAVE” to have a certain wonder. Not getting a certain wonder no longer ruins my plans and I am allowed a great deal of flexibility.

So that’s about it. Wonders were acting like a crutch. Taking them away forced me into micromanagement and unit production.

Here’s to being free and clear!!!

 

[maltz]

Congratulations.

Wonders can be built rather easily with forest chopping, if you have the 100% boost resource (such as stone for Pyramid), and even better you are industrial (50% bonus on Wonders).

In higher difficulties the happiness bonus does not exist, so your cities will be very small until you get calendar. Chances are you will be greatly benefited by a Pyramid (Representation, +3 in largest ~5 cities). Also, representation will help a lot when you over expand, because you are still running an OK research rate based on scientists (from library).

 

[jerVL/kg]

I'm a hopeless Wonderholic myself, welcome to the support group.

I learned very quickly on Prince, and even Noble, you can't get all the early Wonders. You have to pick which ones you want, and strategize for those. For instance, my current game as Mansa Musa started in a CHERRY spot, with tons of forested grassland hills, two food resources, and stone very nearby. So I went for the Pyramids, which I almost never do. With a starvation diet, Timbuktu took only 13 turns to build the 'mids by 1400BC!!!

If you want Scientists, and have marble nearby, shoot for Parthenon/Great Library. If you know you're gonna have mostly coastal cities, go for Great Lighthouse/Colossus. Try and focus on Wonders that complement each other, like Pyramids/Hagia Sophia/3 Gorges Dam for Great Engineers. For artists, shoot for Notre Dame & Taj Mahal.

Some Wonders are mostly useless, like Chichen Itza, unless you need it for the Prophet points.

If you notice an AI civ already has a tech that provides a certain wonder, don't bother trying to get it. Unless...(and this is a neat trick actually)...you can *start* building the Wonder, with no intention of finishing it, and collect the money once the AI gets it!! Sometimes I'll even start a "useless" Wonder in a city, then cancel and start in another city, and so forth until Saladin or someone builds it, then reap the rewards.

 

[atreas]

Congratulations too. You have made the first HUGE step.

First step is to understand the rules. The main rule in CIV4 is "not build everything without thought", which of course means "not build all wonders around".

The next step will be "there are exceptions in that rule", so you will find out yourself than as you advance in difficulty level some wonders really help in some cases.

And then it will come the third step, which is to learn in WHAT case each wonder will help and go for it only in this specific case. Fortunately (otherwise it would be too boring), the last two steps continue (at least, in my case) to repeat themselves for other aspects of the game.

But (judging from myself, a retired buildaholic too from the times of CIV1 already) the most difficult step is really the first one - to stop building around and play the game. I also followed a similar recipe - I forced myself to stop building always "libraries+markets+banks+courthouses" everywhere without second thought.

 

[fmlizard]

I am a crazed wonder builder who starts to hate the game if I am not Industrious. Qin Shi Huang is by FAR my favorite leader. (Fin/Ind) I usually play Prince and win.

Here are the wonders I find absolutely essential...as soon as I can build them, I drop everything and chop it out, or buy it.

Pyramids
Kremlin - IMO, build at ALL COSTS, whatever you have to do, do it. Stop all research for 1-3 turns and buy it if you must.
Pentagon
United Nations
Eiffel Tower
Space Elevator

Good, but not great:

Stonehenge
Sistine Chapel
Parthenon
Great Library
Hagia Sophia
Hollywood/Broadway/Rock n Roll
Mt Rushmore
3 Gorges Dam
Statue of Liberty
Taj Mahal - good to save a Great Engineer for this, gives an immediate golden age with one GP instead of two.

Bleh:

Chichen Itza
Spiral Minaret
Versailles
Notre Dame
Oracle
Colossus
Great Lighthouse

 

[Hans Lemurson]

In Civ4, different from the prior Civ games, it's not all about what you have it's about what you do with it. Having a wonder is useless unless you are really using it's benefit to good effect.

Having stonehenge isn't worth much if you are creative, or are not planning a lot of early expansion. If however, you founded an early religion, it can be invaluable for giving you an early great-prophet, and to stop giving you prophets after Calendar. Only build what you are going to use, and then use it. Do not waste time and money on something you will not use, but if there is something that you can get a huge gain from, by all means go for it!

Don't get hung up on getting certain wonders though, remember that there is a cost associated with building them, an opportunity cost. What else could you have built in that time, with that production? Could you have founded another city, securing you further resources? Built an army to conquer a neighbor? Also, do not despair if someone else builds a wonder, just think "How much did that just cost them?". If they are your neighbor, it may have cost them a large army...

If I had to choose between getting the Pyramids vs. getting two additional cities, I'd go for the cities hands down, any day of the week. If I have stone however...suddenly the opprtunity cost of the Pyramids drops down to tantalizing levels.

 

[Gumbolt]

No wonders???????????? I wonder what the Oracle would have to say about that

 

[jerVL/kg]

My list of critical wonders: Hanging Gardens, Notre Dame, Taj Mahal, The Kremlin, The Pentagon, The Eiffel Tower, Three Gorges Dam. If I have lots off coastal cities, add The Colossus and maybe the Great Lighthouse.

Notre Dame adds +2 happiness to all continental cities, nothing to sneeze at. Taj Mahal I mostly build to deny another civ from getting the free golden age (like fmlizard said, it's worth spending a GE on) and the 3 Gorges Dam just looks so goddamn cool.

Stonehenge is good for early cultural growth if I can get it, but generally I won't even bother (especially if there's lots of calendar resources around.) Parthenon/Great Library is a fantastic combo (it'll pump out Great Scientists like no tomorrow!) but the AI almost always beats me to both of them. The Pyramids are nice, and looks really neat in your town, but they cost so damn much that I don't even bother unless I'm playing an Industrious civ AND have stone -- it's much more cost effective to build an army and use it to "liberate" the 'rids from the civ who built it.

Lesser importance: The Oracle, Chichen Itza, Hagia Sophia, Statue of Liberty, Spiral Minaret, Versailles, United Nations, Space Elevator (I always disable Space Victory nowadays.)

Suckage: Sistine Chapel, Angkor Wat, The Manhattan Project (just let someone else build it), The Internet.

Broadway/Rock & Roll/Hollywood: Good to build 1 or 2, but not all three. You can always trade for the ones you don't get.

 

[Crighton]

Hi everybody,

My name is Crighton and I'm a recovering buildaholic.

Recently I learned the way of the warmonger and since dominated noble so I went up a notch to Prince.

My frist prince game was true warmongering. From the time I discovered Iron working to the end of the game (where I built my one and only tank, Stanley) it was one long hard slog. Just one continous war, which I won

My next 23 games on prince didn't go so well.

21 games in a row without Copper or Iron anywhere in my empire. I now respect the war elephant like no other. In about half of those games barbs sliced through my empire pillaging everything and capturing my capital. In two of the games my three closest neighbors were: Monty, Alex and Nap.

All time favorite, one barb axeman took five of my archers.

On my 22nd game I did have copper and iron and I carved out a nice little niche. Yet something was destined to go wrong. I was a buddist like Isabella. Yet I founded confucianism. Elizabeth was a confucianist. I spread confuciansim far and wide. All of arabia had it. Most of Spain had it. All of Englad had it. Even parts of China. So I switch my state religion to Confucianism.

Two turns later, Isabell and Elizabeth declare war on me. Isabell I understand, but Elizabeth? My only two modifiers with Elizabeth in the diplo screen were a +5 Brotehrs and sisters of faith and a -3 this war spoils our relationship. WTH? I fended them off but didn't last long after that.

Sigh.

If I were reading this I'd tell myself "Build a better army" or some such, but dang, no copper or iron is one hell of a handicap.

In my current game, I'm on a peninsula with copper and iron (miracle) to my south is Alex to my east is Asoka. Alex has a podunk barb city with five axmen in it one of which has 4 promotions, two axes with 3 promotions. Not taking that thing anythime soon.

Currently trying to buil up a war machine. I currently plan to war once I get macemen, crossbows and cats which won't be too far off.

 

[fmlizard]

That many games in a row without copper or iron? I usually research bronze working very early and then find a copper deposit. That is where I make my second city. Sometimes you have to reach a bit for placement, but its worth it. Nothing worse than having barb axemen rampaging your civ when all you can make is warriors and archers.

 

[Crighton]

one of the games i decided to try archipeligo, picture a hand holding up a globe from beneath, that hand was my island, ice cap and all and my civ started at the thumb and the only copper (no iron) was where your pinky fingernail would be. It blew.

 

[Fetch]

This may be a little off the subject, but how can I tell if I'm a buildaholic?

 

[Orion071]

This may be a little off the subject, but how can I tell if I'm a buildaholic?

If you're building a Bank in a city when your science slider is at 100% and that city is producing no income, then you're a buildaholic. (I'm guilty as charged)

 

[Fetch]

a bank as opposed to a .... ?

 

[Orion071]

a bank as opposed to a .... ?

Anything useful. A unit, a University, a Forge, anything. Heck, just produce research if nothing else. Increasing 0 income by 50% doesn't do much good, but I feel the need to put every building in every city all of the time.

 

[Fetch]

how can you have a 0 income city?

 

[jerVL/kg]

I feel the need to put every building in every city all of the time.

I did this all the time on Noble & below. On Prince, for the first time ever, I've been forced to carefully examine each city and decide whether it's best to focus on industry, science, commerce, or culture. No more are the days of just queueing up Theater - Library - Bank - Factory - Temple - Market - Coal Plant - Colosseum and forget about it.

It's also critical to focus your entire empire towards a certain goal, whether it's science, commerce, or warmongering. Sometimes you can do one or two, but not all at once! For example, I'm playing Roosevelt on an Ice Age/Continents map and despite being Industrious, I've managed to build only three Wonders: Stonehenge, The Great Library, and The Kremlin (which I got by chopping six forests, and dropping research to 0% for two turns, until I had enough cash to hurry production. I was NOT gonna lose that critical Wonder!!!) And while all of my cities are heavily focused towards science 1st, commerce 2nd, military 3rd, I'm far behind in the tech race and still struggling to catch up. Only when I rushed the Kremlin did my ranking finally jump from 4th to 2nd place!

On the other hand, my other current game as Mansa Musa started in such a cherry spot (high on production AND food AND commerce!) that I've been able to build all but 6 or 7 wonders...including a few that I didn't intend to build, but finished them first anyway! Without being Industrious, even! (Having stone nearby helped immensely.)

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

This may be a little off the subject, but how can I tell if I'm a buildaholic?

Hmm... based on my own games I would say

1) Look at the production and power graphs on the info advisor screens. If power is running disproportionately low compared with your production, odds are good that you are building too much.

2) Look at the statistics screen, and check the number of each kind of building you have created - if the numbers are all the same, and in close proximity to your total number of cities, odds are good that you are building indiscriminately.

3) When do you switch out of Organized Religion? If your immediate thought is "why would I ever do that?", you're busted.

4) If your most common reaction to the war horns is "oh no!", rather than "what a nuissance", you're probably a buildaholic.

5) If you ever have find yourself thinking "hmm, my defenses are a little light - I'll build some military after this building is finished", see your doctor.

6) That monastery you just built - how many beakers per turn are you getting from it? Similarly, why are you building a lighthouse in a city that isn't working any water tiles yet?

7) Bring up the domestic advisor. Here's a city with lots of commerce but few hammers; there's a city with lots of hammers and few commerce. Do they have the same buildings?

8) True or False - switching to monarchy is a really big deal because doing so generates so much happiness?

OK, some of this is suggestions, some questionaire. Sue me.

 

[beestar]

Heh, that's great - guilty as charged on #3 and #8. I only use Theocracy when at war and rarely any of the other ones. And I've never used Monarchy ...

 

[jerVL/kg]

6) That monastery you just built - how many beakers per turn are you getting from it? Similarly, why are you building a lighthouse in a city that isn't working any water tiles yet?

Hey man, don't knock monasteries! They're a cheap source of culture, and you can't build them after Scientific Method. You'll be happy to have them in 1900AD when you finally get around to capturing the holy city of that religion.