How In The Heck The Third World Screwed Up

[Knight-Dragon]

Double post.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
The United Nations supports terrorist states (Palestine, North Korea), despite the fact that the United States pays for most of it.

The US pays for 25% or so of the UN budget. A quarter is not most of it. Japan pays almost as much as the US (and very promptly too) and didn't get so much as a permanent seat on the Sec Council or the respect for it. Or made such a big fuss over it.

On-topic, maybe the way to go shld be those successful 3rd World countries. E.g. like South Korea. After end of the Korean War, S Korea got probably the lowest per capita income in the world with a huge no of wounded and dead. Also a brutal dictatorship. Yet in the following decades, S Korea transformed itself fr an economic hellhole in a strong powerful industrialized nation under the strong guiding hand of a dictatorship. Eventually the rulers were overthrown and democracy brought in, but S Korea as an economic powerhouse remained.

Sometimes, it's all in the leadership. Not saying a dictatorship is good but human rights and democracy alone don't feed the stomach.

 

[PinkyGen]

I think there are mainly two reasons why the 3rd World is doing poorly.

1. As well pointed, colonialism. It did provide some benefits, but it also provided a lot of harm, and I doubt colonization was good for Africa.

2. In Europe, and the US, modern capitalism and liberal democracy was created over centuries of evolution. It is not so easy to transplant this 'alien' system into 3rd world countries. Some have learned quickly (Japan and to a lesser extent Asian Rim Countries), but for most its a more difficult concept to grasp. It's not because they are lazy, or dumb, it is just that we have had a long time to create a system our modern system, and that they have not.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by PinkyGen
I think there are mainly two reasons why the 3rd World is doing poorly.

1. As well pointed, colonialism. It did provide some benefits, but it also provided a lot of harm, and I doubt colonization was good for Africa.

2. In Europe, and the US, modern capitalism and liberal democracy was created over centuries of evolution. It is not so easy to transplant this 'alien' system into 3rd world countries. Some have learned quickly (Japan and to a lesser extent Asian Rim Countries), but for most its a more difficult concept to grasp. It's not because they are lazy, or dumb, it is just that we have had a long time to create a system our modern system, and that they have not.

Ditto. And also most 3rd World countries didn't invest enough in education so Western-style institutions didn't take root that fast. Simply not enough mass of educated citizens to support the needs of a Western-style democracy and economic system.

One reason why the Asia Pacific is ahead of Africa is cos of more resources being poured into education to the effect that I'm actually posting here and discussing this issue now in a language not native to me.

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

Originally posted by rmsharpe


Talk about a bunch of crap...colonialization by the West was the best thing that ever happened to Africa.

Let's look at Egypt, for example. What was Egypt before British colonization? A desert and some pyramids. Today, it's the most industrialized nation in Africa with some very beautiful (and safe) cities.

Let's compare that with Chad. Chad has produced absolutely nothing of value, and nobody has anything valuable in the first place.

Your point being? Egypt is hardly the model of a modern nation, and their limited success has been the exception, not the rule What's wrong with having a desert and some pyramids? Were they suffering? Were they unhappy?

 

[amadeus]

Before the West came along, they were all nothing more than tribes with straw huts somewhere, preparing blunt spearheads for rival tribes over a pair of plants somewhere.

I'm not going to defend slavery, but the moderate 20th Century colonization (1900-1950) brought great rewards to minor nations.

 

[TrailblazingScot]

The third world wouldn't be the third world if it wasn't worse than the 2nd and first world...

A truistic answer for a thread that started with a poorly outlined question and that has attracted alot of bigotted and wrong responses...

I plan to boycott this particular thread...Fayadi -you are getting worse and worse...

 

[amadeus]

Face it, people in Third World nations are getting worse and worse, and it's their own fault.

 

[Drekken]

Here's some facts:
The slave trade in Africa was alive and well and run by Africans and Arabs hundreds of years before an European set foot there. Although now slavery is illegal in virtually every Western country, slavery is still alive and well in Africa. Maybe if you bedwetting liberals didn't ignore such facts, maybe you'd have a solution instead of crying how Europe screwed everyone else over.

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
Before the West came along, they were all nothing more than tribes with straw huts somewhere, preparing blunt spearheads for rival tribes over a pair of plants somewhere.

I'm not going to defend slavery, but the moderate 20th Century colonization (1900-1950) brought great rewards to minor nations.

And there's something wrong with that? That's exactly what Europeans once were, the only difference being that there was a huge time difference. If they had been allowed to progress naturally to the modern stage as we were, they wouldn't be in this mess. I'm not going to go ranting about the wrongs of the past, but if you're looking for a root of the problem, that's it. We disrupted the natural progression.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Face it, people in Third World nations are getting worse and worse, and it's their own fault.

ONE WORD: DEBT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How the hell can 'third world nations' get themselves sorted out when they still have to pay of millions of dollars of debt each month????????

How the hell can 'third world nations' get themselves sorted out when they find tariffs placed on their export ggods depleting them of a valueable income supply?? You know they wouldn't be in such a bad way if they were able to make the goods in their own country but instead they are forced to export the raw materials to the richer, dominate ones.

Do you pay no attention to protests against the WTO????
PEOPLE DON'T JUST PROTEST ABOUT NOTHING!!!!!!

 

[Maj]

Before the West came along, they were all nothing more than tribes with straw huts somewhere, preparing blunt spearheads for rival tribes over a pair of plants somewhere.

Face it, people in Third World nations are getting worse and worse, and it's their own fault.

I don't know about others, but I thnk I'd be a lot closer to the truth if I were to face the fact that your argument is based on severely tainted views, prejudices, faulty facts, and uncontrolled emotions.

But hey, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

-Maj

 

[amadeus]

Originally posted by Maj
I don't know about others, but I thnk I'd be a lot closer to the truth if I were to face the fact that your argument is based on severely tainted views, prejudices, faulty facts, and uncontrolled emotions.

But hey, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

-Maj

There's nothing tainted -- corrupt governments and an apathetic public are the problems.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Well, both sides are right on this issue, but I think the problems are about 66% internal, and 34% external.

The main problem is greed. Not just the greed of MNCs either. The greed of corrupt politicians and leaders in those nations is a key factor in the stagnation of the third world. Without those corrupt few, the MNCs would have no means to exploit the citizenry of those nations.

Regrettably, the people in those nations either don't know, via lack of education, or simply don't care that their leaders are corrupt.

I suppose the only current answer is to go in there with guns and shoot a few dictators, and turn the countries over to a democratic process. At least then there would be some accountability...

 

[Drekken]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2

I suppose the only current answer is to go in there with guns and shoot a few dictators, and turn the countries over to a democratic process. At least then there would be some accountability...

I agree.

 

[amadeus]

There wouldn't be a coup d'Etat to a democratic country -- it'd be against the contra leaders' personal interests.

 

[Maj]

I suppose the only current answer is to go in there with guns and shoot a few dictators, and turn the countries over to a democratic process. At least then there would be some accountability...

Maybe someone can back me on this one, but haven't some of these dictatorships been risen to & kept in power by some Western states?

On the question of Third World public apathy, could someone support that claim ... When the bare necessities of life are hard to come by, laziness is one of the last traits any human trying to survive would adopt. And all humans have a basic survival motivation.

I'd argue that Westerners are the lazier ones. Luckily we have the technological and social institutions to facilitate our apathy.

I'd really like to hear why some of you believe the general public in developing nations are lazy. Maybe that'll help clear up some of this argument.

I'll have to agree on the point that corruption at the governmental and corporate levels, internal and abroad, has been one of the key reasons behind the economic stagnation, shrinking or slow growth of developing nations. At the same time, I'm thankful that those populations do not indulge in the same level of consumption as the average Westerner. Of course, the massive suffering makes me think twice.

-Maj

 

[Drekken]

The third world is not suffering from laziness but ignorance which can be cured with education. The problem is that the Warlords that should be bombed out of power are denying their people the education.

 

[BlueMonday]

Originally posted by ComradeDavo
How the hell can 'third world nations' get themselves sorted out when they find tariffs placed on their export ggods depleting them of a valueable income supply?? You know they wouldn't be in such a bad way if they were able to make the goods in their own country but instead they are forced to export the raw materials to the richer, dominate ones.

Huh? Goverments benefit by tariffs placed on imports and exports. Every time a certain cargo of a certain weight leaves the port for another country, or comes in from another country the goverment of gets a certain amount of money. The tariffs come off of the private business which moves them around, they do not take away from the nation in question.

In large part, the debt incurred on third world countries is the fault of the country in question. Poor investment strategies, poorly constructed public works, and the lack of stable solid assets all contribute to the growing debt problem in these countries. Without solid assets (e.g Gold or Silver) backing up their moneys their liquid assets fly like butterflys in a hurricane. And as their money devalues (driving the cost of goods up)working wages stay relatively the same creating rampant inflation and a host of other problems. One of the big reasons the U.S. Dollar is one of the most stable forms of liquid asset on the international market is because of all of our solid assets stored in Fort Knox -billions upon billions of dollars in Gold.
To compound the problem, many UDCs lose massive investments in poorly constructed public works plunging them further into debt. Often a UDC loses millions in borrowed money everytime a public work is lost due to shoddy construction, environmental factors, or a combination of the two.

Do you pay no attention to protests against the WTO????
PEOPLE DON'T JUST PROTEST ABOUT NOTHING!!!!!!

I don't know, I've seen some pretty silly protests.

 

[ComradeDavo]

I do know how the trade system works. And somehow I don't think an LEDC will benifit from exporting the raw materials for low prices because it is made too costly to export the finished products.