How is it to always be the bad guys?

[storealex]

In movies and games, it's always the Germans who is the enemy. Everytime a member of the 101st airborne is shot, you really feel sorry for him, but when it's a German, it's just someone from "the other side", you know what I mean?
The movies and games never portray the Germans side of the story, and they are either just the enemy who you never see as any thing else, and even if you do, it's as something bad and evil.

It's a bit the same story when it comes to England. The English are only the good guys when they are fighting the Germans

Of course there are exceptions, but they are rare. So how does it feel to be a Brit or German and watch these movies, and play these games? Does it anger you? Are you used to it? Im really curious.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I'm somewhat hard pressed to think of games where the English are the bad guys, and there really aren't alot of movies either beyond The Patriot and Braveheart, are there?

 

[Wolfe Tone]

I'm somewhat hard pressed to think of games where the English are the bad guys, and there really aren't alot of movies either beyond The Patriot and Braveheart, are there?

Well the majority of Imperials in Star Wars have English accents, but I'm not sure that counts.

 

[stormbind]

1. A lot of movies will personalise a German officer for added effect.

2. These movies are made in Hollywood so are not influenced by the English.

3. In other genres, Hollywood frequently casts English actors as the bad guys.

 

[stormbind]

I imagine it is very frustrating for the Germans. I base this judgement on the way Hollywood portrays the English (outside WW2 and Cold War).

The treatment of the English (good/bad depending on who the ally is) highlights that Hollywood is exceedingly biased and thrives on American naivity

 

[~Corsair#01~]

I always support the movie bad guys anyway, as they invariably are cooler in every way.

EDIT- 2000 posts!

 

[storealex]

I'm somewhat hard pressed to think of games where the English are the bad guys,

True.

and there really aren't alot of movies either beyond The Patriot and Braveheart, are there?

In the name of the father
Michael Collins
Jean D'arc

And that's just what popped into my head while writing this.

 

[~Corsair#01~]

Basically the moral hierarchy of Hollywood runs:

USA
English
French
German (move up one place if French are under Napoleon, down one place if Germans are Nazis)
Russian
Indigenous people during colonial era

 

[The Last Conformist]

In the name of the father
Michael Collins
Jean D'arc

And that's just what popped into my head while writing this.

You may have a point here. And I can't immediately think of a lot of non-WWII, non-CW movies where the English are the good guys.

 

[BasketCase]

I've read one or two French (I think) sci-fi novels where the good guy was a dishonored soldier of German descent.

Not exactly what one would expect, considering the history those two nations have with each other.

 

[phoenix_night]

Don't forget the Russians...

 

[stormbind]

KGB babes!

 

[Marla_Singer]

I've noticed that in the latest years, Hollywood pictured more and more French people as the bad guys. However, that trend is obviously disappearing since it seems to be less the case more recently.

Usually, French people are rarely the true bad guys in Hollywood movies. French people are usually traitors, who decided to join the bad guys even if at the beginning of the movie they were supposed to be good guys. That's what we see in movies such as "Indiana Jones" or "Mission Impossible".

 

[storealex]

Before we turn this into a "We don't like Hollywood" thread, let's remember that it's also devellopers of computergames that are a part of this thing. I don't remember a first person shooter where you could play as the Germans (In single player)

 

[Wolfe Tone]

I don't remember a first person shooter where you could play as the Germans (In single player)

Battlefield 1942. Granted that game is geared towards multi player there are single player campaigns that you can be the Germans.

 

[Mise]

Well most Disney films instil at an early age that all evil men have English accents. Same with star wars, as was mentioned before. E.g. Scar from the Lion King had an English accent.

 

[CivCynic]

Go to any of those countries and try their video games. The bad guys are probably almost always us.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Before we turn this into a "We don't like Hollywood" thread, let's remember that it's also devellopers of computergames that are a part of this thing. I don't remember a first person shooter where you could play as the Germans (In single player)

No, I love Hollywood.

To answer your question, it's certainly not because the French archeologist René Belloq has decided to ally with the nazis to discover the lost Ark that this movie is not one of my all-time favourite.

As for the other example, "Mission Impossible", actually, I think the fact that French were bad guys (Jean Reno, Emanuelle Beart) made me enjoy the movie more than I would have without them. As a spectator, you don't feel that those guys represent yourself you know... they just represent bad guys who are actually French but could be anything else, that's not really the point.

My point was certainly not to bash Hollywood. Sorry if you've felt it that way.

 

[storealex]

Oh ok, it just seemed like the thread was going down the "We're too smart for Hollywood" road that threads so often does here. I also love Hollywood, though it lacks a few things that I get from Danish and Chinese movies.

 

[Verbose]

Slightly OT, but Hollywood has a very peculiar relationship to the world outside the US.
As far as Europe is concerned the Hollywood idea of it wavers between some attempt at realism and treating it as a kind of almost-fictional place where it's OK to invent history and even whole new countries, provided they have enough of a European 'feel' to go over well with US audiences I suppose.

The only instance I can think of when a European filmmaker has done a reverse job on the US — using a European mythological pseudo-US background for a story (American enough for Europeans) — is Lars von Trier's 'Dancer in the Dark'. Of course the US critics didn't much like this US-simulacra. (It might be why he later stopped useing 'realistic' sets all together in films like 'Dogville' and recently 'Manderlay'.)

Of course the US film-industry are wizards at mythologising their own country as well. I just sometimes wonder if Americans are aware of the European mythology of the US?