How is this city spacing fun?
- Thread starter Takagi Hiro
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Takagi Hiro
Prince
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Everyone's raving about it for the most part, so maybe I'll give it another go later. However, city-states must be the exception. Four tiles apart between them is so horribly unenjoyable for me.
Deadstarre
Expert
you REALLLY needed that iron didn't you =)
Takagi Hiro
Prince
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Well, I do like going for monopolies. Adding 12 iron to the total would have been helpful indeed. Seriously, the land between them was SO good, and there wasn't a darned thing any player could do about it, especially given city-states can't be razed (unfortunately). Three spaces leaves less up to the RNG. If a player settled there, it would be entirely different, but a city-state is essentially not playing the game and just effectively removes good land from the game. If you didn't need them on to play a balanced game, I'd totally remove each and every last one.
According to WorldChanges.sql, the minimum distance you have to settle away from city states on a Large map (any map bigger than small, really) is 3 tiles:
So if it's working as intended, shouldn't be any more different than playing on a Standard map.
kaspergm
Deity
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I think it's a really hard line to strike. The spacing of 3 seems to low because AI apparently just mindlessly settles cities always with the minimum possible distance, so in that way the distance of 4 helps them a bit in making meaningful city distance. On the other hand, I do agree that there are many cases where humans are prevented from settling a good spot because either one of your own cities or an enemy city is within the limit of 4 tiles.
So I think best case would be to allow 3 spaces between, but to teach the AI to settle on the (actually quite decent) suggested sites that computer makes itself (so clearly code is there for it in AI) instead of just mindlessly settling a minimum range.
So I think best case would be to allow 3 spaces between, but to teach the AI to settle on the (actually quite decent) suggested sites that computer makes itself (so clearly code is there for it in AI) instead of just mindlessly settling a minimum range.
Salamandre
King
It depends also on difficulty, higher you select, less hammers AI needs, thus smaller towns will work fine for it.
I tried the 4 hexes pattern and found that due to (probably) bad prioritizing codes, AI settled chaotically, wasting a lot of space, then he had much less army than when playing with 3. For me, at deity, the 3 hexes pattern is just perfect regarding AI efficiency.
I tried the 4 hexes pattern and found that due to (probably) bad prioritizing codes, AI settled chaotically, wasting a lot of space, then he had much less army than when playing with 3. For me, at deity, the 3 hexes pattern is just perfect regarding AI efficiency.
That's mininum distance between city states, not next to them. Applies to CSs, not major civs.
Seems you have it figured out- feel free to download the source on GitHub and teach the AI to do this.
G
Oh, okay then, I must have misunderstood. Sorry for the confusion.
Aristos
Lightseeker
Oh, come one, we should be playing at MCR-7 or 8 to prepare for what is coming... 
kaspergm
Deity
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I'm not trying to be a wise-ass. I just honestly can't understand why the developers made a - surprisingly - competent script for finding settling locations and then didn't make it so the AI relies on this script when choosing its locations to settle.
I trust that you would have implemented it if it was an easy tweak to do, however.
I'm not trying to be a wise-ass. I just honestly can't understand why the developers made a - surprisingly - competent script for finding settling locations and then didn't make it so the AI relies on this script when choosing its locations to settle.
There's no 'competent script' that we aren't using. Those icons on the map for city sites come from the AI function for fertility. And the AI settles on those icons the vast, vast majority of the time, because those are the same sites the AI values as being good. There's no difference between the two.
G
kaspergm
Deity
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While this was not the impression I got from seeing how AI settles in my games, if that is the case, that is at least a comfort.
Yep - rule of AI modding is that individual cases can't make the rule - if the AI is, overall, settling better, then the odd aberrant case is acceptable.
G
lordrune
Prince
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Honestly, it's fine where it is. If there really were 8 hexes between the cities there should have been 'some' spot that could be settled for Takagi unless he was using a version that prohibited it. Even so, it's not a disaster if there is the occasional resource on a map that is inconvenient to claim.
I don't like ICS. A bit of space is good, and borders expand anyway up to 5 hexes (tbh, I mod my game to allow borders to expand a little more than that, but I'm weird) so the territory should fill in nicely as the game goes on.
In my experience the AI does settle relatively smart cities, for the most part. It does like overlapping more than me, but maybe that makes sense in some situations - I don't think avoiding overlap the way I do is actually optimal
I don't like ICS. A bit of space is good, and borders expand anyway up to 5 hexes (tbh, I mod my game to allow borders to expand a little more than that, but I'm weird) so the territory should fill in nicely as the game goes on.
In my experience the AI does settle relatively smart cities, for the most part. It does like overlapping more than me, but maybe that makes sense in some situations - I don't think avoiding overlap the way I do is actually optimal
Takagi Hiro
Prince
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The iron deposits were literally right between the cities. There was no spot to settle, since from each of the city-states, there were four spaces each, making the eight space gap.Honestly, it's fine where it is. If there really were 8 hexes between the cities there should have been 'some' spot that could be settled for Takagi unless he was using a version that prohibited it. Even so, it's not a disaster if there is the occasional resource on a map that is inconvenient to claim.
I don't like ICS. A bit of space is good, and borders expand anyway up to 5 hexes (tbh, I mod my game to allow borders to expand a little more than that, but I'm weird) so the territory should fill in nicely as the game goes on.
In my experience the AI does settle relatively smart cities, for the most part. It does like overlapping more than me, but maybe that makes sense in some situations - I don't think avoiding overlap the way I do is actually optimal
Hello Great People I am playing on a large map and i cannot settle within 4 tiles, I looked and found the file WorldChanges.sql and changed the values under Large map to be 3 then 2 or even 1 but the change is not reflected in my game. Do I need to start another game for the change to happen? (I have been trying to change the value then reload my save)
Thank you.
I am playing on a large map and i cannot settle within 4 tiles, I looked and found the file WorldChanges.sql and changed the values under Large map to be 3 then 2 or even 1 but the change is not reflected in my game. Do I need to start another game for the change to happen? (I have been trying to change the value then reload my save)Thank you.
Hello Great People
Thank you.
Clear your cache. Value is loaded into the save, so it may not update mid-game as a result. Generally, changing database values mid game is a bad idea.
G
