How often do you *not* get easy access to copper

[Hsinchu]

How awesome would that be? "Trebuchet - 80 - Requires Stone or Cows"

Oh, and the attack animation graphics...

Can we put in a formal request for a non-PETA friendly mod?

 

[binhthuy71]

Yes. And espionage+siege+whatever is even better

It's a good thing catapults and trebs don't require stone, eh? Then again, you could always just launch cows.

Fetchez La Vache!

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

^^LoL. This guy gets it

 

[Grey Fox]

There is a unit model that does that. It's the Balseraph cowtapult in Fall from Heaven 2.

 

[Sincro]

Usually 7-9. 6 is a minimum extreme, 12-15 are upper bounds on normal speed for me.

That's for Immortal and below...on deity getting more than 6 is pretty hard, getting 10 impossible on most maps.

Ok, then I am clearly playing a different game then you are. I play at noble level, and when I cross the 1 AD line, I *rarely* have more then 6 cities, and 4 or 5 is far more common. Any more then that and I'm dipping below 60% science to maintain a positive gpt, and I cannot imagine where my science slider would be if I had 10 cities that early. How can you possibly generate that many cities + defenders + still be able to tech at all? Are you dense-packing them to cut down on distance? How do you generate enough science to get yourself to currency/code of laws to dig out out of the economy crash? Or do you intentionally crash your economy to accomplish this after getting one or both of those techs?

Sorry if I sound ******ed, but that amount of cities that early is just mind-boggling to me. Especially when you say it's perfectly normal in your games to have that many.

 

[Silu]

It's perfectly normal to go down to 0% tech for a while at that point if the situation warrants it. As long as you have writing you can dig yourself out with specialists, or just by building more cottages. From there on out you're in a position to grow vertically for a long, long time. A settler landgrab is usually much more efficient than warfare.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Crashing then climbing out with trades is very typical.

I put up a game in general discussions a while ago with wasthington (bts version) where I had 11 and was about to settle a 12th peacefully at 1 AD, and I was still + 20 some gold at 0%, with a decent enough science rate due to building research and specs.

The 60% thing in sisituil's guide is good for beginners but IMO misleading to those trying to climb to high level play.

 

[Sincro]

Ok, is there a specific tech tree you have to follow to generate trade bait for the AIs? Obviously you need to snag alphabet to start up the tech trading, but what other techs make good bait for the AIs?

Do you build/whip libraries and courthouses? Or just one of them, or neither and simply build research in a number of cities? I have been trying to follow the Sis guide, and it's possible that the 60% rule is why I cannot make a clean jump to prince. I can and have won at prince, but my percentage is extremely low unless I get a start that lets me rush another AI immediately.

How well does the build 10 cities by 1 AD strategy work when you are isolated (or only have a single AI to trade with meaning no trades cause they think they have a monopoly) because almost every time I find myself in that position the game is hopeless. By the time I crank out optics and find the other AIs I am 8+ techs behind. At noble level.

 

[Grey Fox]

One general tech path, for me, tends to be something like this:
[Worker Techs] -> [Maybe Archery] -> Writing -> Aesthetics
Then
Trade Aesthetics for Alphabet
Trade Aesthetics for Iron Working and whatever you can get from every civ you know.
Then
Depends, sometimes Drama, often Currency
Then
Depends

Bulbing Philosophy can be good, even if others have it. Nice trade tech.
Need to get Meditation first, and some other techs sometimes. Use BUG mod to easily see what your great people will bulb next.

I'm not as good player as TMIT, but I've won with 8 different leaders on Immortal at least (always Normal/Standard, almost always Fractal)

Try to check F4 often for what the AI have and can research. Use binary research when you are unsure you will be the first to get a tech, and at other times (like when building libraries or waiting for a scientist to be used as acadamy, or when building universities/oxford)

I'll let others expand on this

 

[Silu]

The Aesthetics "trick" only works on Emperor+ and reliably only on Immortal+ (to my experience), on lower levels it's usually better to take Alphabet yourself. If you're the only one to have it at the time, you have total control on the tech situation for a short while, trading other techs with everyone while they are unable to trade with each other.

Both Libraries and Courthouses are prime candidates for whipping, but each snap of the whip should be situational and thought-through - don't whip just because you can.

In isolation there's no need for a quick landgrab (as no one is going to take it away from you), so you can expand slowly while keeping the tech rate up. It's not good to not go straight for Optics, I usually go Math->Currency->CoL->Civil Service first.

My number one advice is to not just obey guides you read, but try to think why the guide tells you to do something and capitalize on this principle behind the literal advice.

 

[Grey Fox]

The Aesthetics "trick" only works on Emperor+ and reliably only on Immortal+ (to my experience), on lower levels it's usually better to take Alphabet yourself. If you're the only one to have it at the time, you have total control on the tech situation for a short while, trading other techs with everyone while they are unable to trade with each other.

Very true.
Sometimes you need to research Alphabet on Immortal too, you'll have to get a feel of your current game. And binary research helps here so you don't waste your beakers.

Usually I have to avoid getting Math myself, but if I need to rush a wonder by chopping (Pyramids for example), I tend to get it myself. AI really seem to prioritize math however, and often when I go for it the AI has gotten it before me.