[R&F] How to quick SV, share your view.

[hatman5700]

Too many questions that it's hard to answer. I'll put a video played by @Rogue-star. Maybe video is more intuitive.
[R&F Australia peaceful SV without Harvest pantheon, T151, Deity-All-Standard, Pangea]
T1~T51: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av20871792
T51~T151: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av21140303

He skipped a lot of district planning time in the middle. Planning icons: inverted triangle - city, circle - theater, rhombus - campus, cross - park

Thanks for the videos, I'm getting turn 180~ victories without the fine tuned knowledge of some of these details, so appreciate any help + I usually find videos helpful to see the turn-by-turn decisions (unfortunately I don't speak/read Mandarin/Chinese??? Ignorant as to what to even properly say here lol). Civtrader6 has videos but they appear to be mostly for Vanilla, save for one Mongol dom victory in R&F.
Do you have links to any additional videos? Love to watch these in spare time while doing other work etc.

Thanks in advance,

 

[Rogue-star]

Thanks for the videos, I'm getting turn 180~ victories without the fine tuned knowledge of some of these details, so appreciate any help + I usually find videos helpful to see the turn-by-turn decisions (unfortunately I don't speak/read Mandarin/Chinese??? Ignorant as to what to even properly say here lol). Civtrader6 has videos but they appear to be mostly for Vanilla, save for one Mongol dom victory in R&F.
Do you have links to any additional videos? Love to watch these in spare time while doing other work etc.

Thanks in advance,

It's my pleasure to hear that you loved my SV video. I'm sorry to tell you that currently I have only one R&F video because I don't have very much time to make many civil6 videos. But there will be more of them in the future. If you're interested, I will put new videos here. Again, thanks for your interest in my video.

 

[pahakuutti]

Here is one with a lucky start. Found relic on turn 2 and got Goddess of the Harvest for the very first time.

Played as Korea. Settings were Deity, Continents, all standard.
Got SV on turn 140.

Did some heavy warmongering. Cleared my landmass in just a little over 100 turns. As there was no more room for new cities in my continent, decided to send my army overseas to find new spots to harvest.

Oh boy, Goddess of the Harvest is strong when combined with Ancestral Hall + Monumentality.
Ended up having ~50 cities.

Made quite a few mistakes during the game like not saving enough wood to chop Royal Society.

I've attached the end save and the turn 2 save (after relic was founded).

 

[hatman5700]

Rogue - Saw your renamed an Archer to 'Nova' - Hope this is in reference to Starcraft Universe

+nerdPoints

Question for your game config - I saw in your very first video it appears you have no Barbs checked? The 2nd option from the top in the bottom-most menu? I can't translate the Mandarin to English to confirm, I know you see barbs in the game you play - What exactly is that option?

https://imgur.com/a/ePlkI

 

[Rogue-star]

Rogue - Saw your renamed an Archer to 'Nova' - Hope this is in reference to Starcraft Universe

+nerdPoints

Question for your game config - I saw in your very first video it appears you have no Barbs checked? The 2nd option from the top in the bottom-most menu? I can't translate the Mandarin to English to confirm, I know you see barbs in the game you play - What exactly is that option?

https://imgur.com/a/ePlkI

I didn't turn off the barbarians. What you saw was "team sharing visibility."

 

[Boyan_Sun]

I saw in your very first video it appears you have no Barbs checked? The 2nd option from the top in the bottom-most menu?

I checked both Chinese version and English version - they are different in sequence. In Chinese version the queue is: No Duplicate Leaders, Teams Share Visibility, No Tribal Villages, No Barbarians, No Teams.

So Korea was supposed to be the most powerful civilization for science victory. I just played a peaceful game and win SV less than 140.

 

[Athmos]

What I also find frustrating is the terrain is just not normal... it is optimal. I cannot watch anymore optimal recordings.

While I understand your frustration, as I also tried to replicate some of these peaceful strats and know for a fact that they all depend on great start, I realised that what we are talking about with fast SV, or fast peaceful win, etc, is essentially speedrunning. In such game, setting records or very good time is always very dependant on maps, and wining with a good time on a randomly generated map always takes a lot of rerolls/restarts.
That's to be expected actually and is perfectly normal. In any competitive context, the best results always come from a mix of skill/strategy and luck (or let's say, factors out of the control of the competitor). In game with a strong RNG element at the start (the generated map), it means a lot of rerolls and restarts for optimal settings.

You just have to realise that when we're talking about records or very good times from a handful of very good players in a standard setting, we're actually talking about the very best and most lucky attempts from the best players. To me, realising what this discussion is about made it even more interesting to follow and experiment with.

You just have to accept that in this context, we'll get optimal strategies to get optimal results in optimal settings. A lot of that is also skills since applying the right ones depending on the context still happen as we play (we don't see the whole map revealed at the start), but of course some of this will be relevant to all games and some will only be relevant to speedrunning.

 

[Esperr]

Im finding any map can pretty much support a t180ish win. Good ones seem to fall around 150 to 60 and sometimes you just get lucky and have sub 140 games, although ive only had two out the maybe thirty R and F games ive played. Finding early blue CS seems to make the biggest difference. I know on one of the games where I had a turn 135 I stumbled onto two nearby blue CS within the first fifteen turns and managed to get Goddess playing as Indonesia. That map also had a ton of hills though as well and two really good space city spots.

 

[Boyan_Sun]

I see many are just talking about "optimal". No, these are actually very far from optimal Obviously, there are many mistakes in that video, and the map was not good enough. In fact, my T135 SV was also very rough, lots of errors, like completely forgot about Darwin, forgot to build university in my Kilwa City for nearly 20 turns.... Again, I'm not an expert player.

So please allow me to send a true "optimal" record from an expert player, even use paper and pen to calculate each turn accurately. The strategy is exactly the same, but the operations are more delicate, and the map is real great, carefully selected. It's hard to imagine how complicated that would be and how fast it can be. All save files can be provided: [R&F Pericles T117(25AD) peaceful SV, Deity-All-Standard, Pangea]

However, this may be the last crazy record before the spring update.

 

[RealHuhn]

While I understand your frustration, as I also tried to replicate some of these peaceful strats and know for a fact that they all depend on great start, I realised that what we are talking about with fast SV, or fast peaceful win, etc, is essentially speedrunning. In such game, setting records or very good time is always very dependant on maps, and wining with a good time on a randomly generated map always takes a lot of rerolls/restarts.
That's to be expected actually and is perfectly normal. In any competitive context, the best results always come from a mix of skill/strategy and luck (or let's say, factors out of the control of the competitor). In game with a strong RNG element at the start (the generated map), it means a lot of rerolls and restarts for optimal settings.

You just have to realise that when we're talking about records or very good times from a handful of very good players in a standard setting, we're actually talking about the very best and most lucky attempts from the best players. To me, realising what this discussion is about made it even more interesting to follow and experiment with.

You just have to accept that in this context, we'll get optimal strategies to get optimal results in optimal settings. A lot of that is also skills since applying the right ones depending on the context still happen as we play (we don't see the whole map revealed at the start), but of course some of this will be relevant to all games and some will only be relevant to speedrunning.

I agree but seeing that all fastest victory videos are all about micromanaging Magnus, you quickly understand how shallow the game is in its current state.

 

[Arilian]

T117 omg

This basically shows the games should have 8 more difficulty and still winnable.
Diety is like the 'normal' mode of Civ.

 

[Marenzio]

T117 omg

This basically shows the games should have 8 more difficulty and still winnable.
Diety is like the 'normal' mode of Civ.

That's not a difficulty problem really, it's just abusing the production overflow exploit + micromanagement of Magnus.

 

[AbacusRay]

Too many questions that it's hard to answer. I'll put a video played by @Rogue-star. Maybe video is more intuitive.
[R&F Australia peaceful SV without Harvest pantheon, T151, Deity-All-Standard, Pangea]
T1~T51: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av20871792
T51~T151: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av21140303

He skipped a lot of district planning time in the middle. Planning icons: inverted triangle - city, circle - theater, rhombus - campus, cross - park

Just what I wanted!

 

[Rancio]

I checked both Chinese version and English version - they are different in sequence. In Chinese version the queue is: No Duplicate Leaders, Teams Share Visibility, No Tribal Villages, No Barbarians, No Teams.

So Korea was supposed to be the most powerful civilization for science victory. I just played a peaceful game and win SV less than 140.

Is there any video or post explaining the strategy on english? I don't understand Chinese at all and figure out what he is doing and explaining is near impossible for me.

 

[i_imperator]

What are the main benchmarks for a fast science victory? I've been trying to get one on emperor/immortal and the best I can do is turn 198 as Australia.

How many cities should you have by turn 70/80 and what is the best way to go about getting them? Ancestral hall+magnus+goldenage monumentality? Im currently trying to do a game as Germany with a focus on Ruhr and production.

 

[Victoria]

What are the main benchmarks for a fast science victory?

There will be some debate but in essence science victories are best with 15-20 cities or more which realistically means violence. My general violence benchmarks are
10 culture per turn by T25 (a target, not a reality) but basically a government by T50, earlier is better. This first step ensure earlier feudalism which is primarily for builders but also knight.
7 cities by T70... the is easily reachable, 10 by T100 was the old benchmark but in reality for fast victories apart from peaceful CV it is too few cities. 7 by 70 is roughly what I always have but you should also be taking out lots of cities by this stage so you are at 15-20 around T100.
At around 80-90 you will be pumping out 6-7 charge workers for chopping in libraries/universities so yours science heavily escalates, you envoys at this stage will be concentrating on science and culture CS. You should also be planning for Kilwa Kiwisani, Rocket sites, eurekas and inspirations further up, and other wonders you may want like Big Ben as you need good cash, if you can get a lot of cash you may be able to shave some turns off your victory.
You should already have pyramids/coliseum amd have good culture growth for the moon landing push.
You should also be looting, placing specialists and managing city size and use.
You say Ruhr, I tend to go Oxford university as if you have done most of the easy eurekas this can give some nice surprise which will shave off a few turns. No Idea why people get Ruhr as rockets do not need any city production really. Buy the platforms, buy the builders and have enough chop for the first, second and last rockets.
It is all about shaving turns off, doing A shaves 2 turns off, B shaves 3 turns off. There are lots of turn shavers, every eureka and inspiration does, chopping at the right time, looting to finish inspirations and eurekas as long as you understand what overflow you loose.

How many cities should you have by turn 70/80 and what is the best way to go about getting them?

As above, violence. Because 7-10 by T70 will not be enough cities.
Harvest and monumentality help but are not critical, having 2 armies and flat ground helps. Taking cities means you capture things you may not build otherwise... so capturing 2 harbours gives a good eureka, helps with an inspiration or 2 and is a turn shaver. Making the city and building the districts is so much more work and time that capturing cities is a big time shaver.

 

[i_imperator]

There will be some debate but in essence science victories are best with 15-20 cities or more which realistically means violence. My general violence benchmarks are
10 culture per turn by T25 (a target, not a reality) but basically a government by T50, earlier is better. This first step ensure earlier feudalism which is primarily for builders but also knight.
7 cities by T70... the is easily reachable, 10 by T100 was the old benchmark but in reality for fast victories apart from peaceful CV it is too few cities. 7 by 70 is roughly what I always have but you should also be taking out lots of cities by this stage so you are at 15-20 around T100.
At around 80-90 you will be pumping out 6-7 charge workers for chopping in libraries/universities so yours science heavily escalates, you envoys at this stage will be concentrating on science and culture CS. You should also be planning for Kilwa Kiwisani, Rocket sites, eurekas and inspirations further up, and other wonders you may want like Big Ben as you need good cash, if you can get a lot of cash you may be able to shave some turns off your victory.
You should already have pyramids/coliseum amd have good culture growth for the moon landing push.
You should also be looting, placing specialists and managing city size and use.
You say Ruhr, I tend to go Oxford university as if you have done most of the easy eurekas this can give some nice surprise which will shave off a few turns. No Idea why people get Ruhr as rockets do not need any city production really. Buy the platforms, buy the builders and have enough chop for the first, second and last rockets.
It is all about shaving turns off, doing A shaves 2 turns off, B shaves 3 turns off. There are lots of turn shavers, every eureka and inspiration does, chopping at the right time, looting to finish inspirations and eurekas as long as you understand what overflow you loose.


As above, violence. Because 7-10 by T70 will not be enough cities.
Harvest and monumentality help but are not critical, having 2 armies and flat ground helps. Taking cities means you capture things you may not build otherwise... so capturing 2 harbours gives a good eureka, helps with an inspiration or 2 and is a turn shaver. Making the city and building the districts is so much more work and time that capturing cities is a big time shaver.

Fantastic tips! And these are benchmarks that I will try and emulate on Emperor before the expansion comes out. I'm definitely more of a builder than a warmonger. Which districts should you focus on first and in what order? I've been trying the five theater square globalization push in my last few games but I think i'm doing it incorrectly.

In terms Of getting a government, I tend to get mine between turn 55-60 I presume that is way too slow? The Ancestral hall with magnus harvest and monumentality usually comes around turn 60-65 for me.

 

[Victoria]

Which districts should you focus on first and in what order?

you need a very early district so you can get your plaza placed early which typically means a pop of 4 in your capital. People tend to think the good players are all about exploits, they are not, they are about managing 20 things at once like the above consideration. So whatever district you build first needs to be fast and campus just screams yes for an SV.
Now the BIG clue here is no other districts early unless you have to for good reason. Place a district as soon as you can but for goodness sake do not waste time finishing it, 1st campus and plaza only. You should be pushing army and settlers as much as you can. So maybe an early archer warrior or horseman army and a knight army when you get them. It is when you get to feudalism that you get 5/6/7 chop workers that you go crazy and chop in all your districts. The thing is, you need to concentrate just on the districts you need and once you get used to managing gold early you do not need CH, aim to capture CH rather than build. It is then about theatres and campus which means cities of a size of 4 initially... if they can grow to 10 then great because that helps at rationalism. So phase 1 is war and cities + pyramid and Coliseum. Phase 2 at about 80-100 is chop crazy... BUT you also must be planning your end game at this stage. What cities for rockets where, moon landing when? And will it push me to globalisation, get me all the way there... at this stage a couple more theatres can make a big difference or waste 10 turns... I need at least 7200 for Reyna, ideally at least double that... how? This middle planning phase take your time on, look at the tech and civic trees and learn what eurekas and inspirations you need ... also remembering an inspiration when you have just finished a civic destroys any overflow from finishing, same with science.

I presume that is way too slow?

... not necessarily, as long as your city number run up by at the latest T120. The target of 10 by T25 is a very lucky ideal but it puts you in the right mindset... as much culture early as possible. Easpecially as realistically you want a detour to drama for theatres ... having some flat sand for Magnus to get pyramids with a couple of chops will speed this up with the inspiration. Getting harvest is just so powerful, I my scout sees something that will give me 25 faith early with a quick pillage I will declare war regardless and sacrifice my scout to get it, it will not be a holy site this early but quite a few luxe’s give faith. Harvest and monumentality will shorten your game by 20-30 turns or more.... so classic golden also which typically mean army.... but also remember, pillaging a quarry gives 25 culture when you are creating 5 per turn is a big boost. When my first goody hut gives me a scout I never stop building the second one because they are such flexible and handy units early, especially as they are primary targets for both barbs and civs.

 

[i_imperator]

you need a very early district so you can get your plaza placed early which typically means a pop of 4 in your capital. People tend to think the good players are all about exploits, they are not, they are about managing 20 things at once like the above consideration. So whatever district you build first needs to be fast and campus just screams yes for an SV.
Now the BIG clue here is no other districts early unless you have to for good reason. Place a district as soon as you can but for goodness sake do not waste time finishing it, 1st campus and plaza only. You should be pushing army and settlers as much as you can. So maybe an early archer warrior or horseman army and a knight army when you get them. It is when you get to feudalism that you get 5/6/7 chop workers that you go crazy and chop in all your districts. The thing is, you need to concentrate just on the districts you need and once you get used to managing gold early you do not need CH, aim to capture CH rather than build. It is then about theatres and campus which means cities of a size of 4 initially... if they can grow to 10 then great because that helps at rationalism. So phase 1 is war and cities + pyramid and Coliseum. Phase 2 at about 80-100 is chop crazy... BUT you also must be planning your end game at this stage. What cities for rockets where, moon landing when? And will it push me to globalisation, get me all the way there... at this stage a couple more theatres can make a big difference or waste 10 turns... I need at least 7200 for Reyna, ideally at least double that... how? This middle planning phase take your time on, look at the tech and civic trees and learn what eurekas and inspirations you need ... also remembering an inspiration when you have just finished a civic destroys any overflow from finishing, same with science.

... not necessarily, as long as your city number run up by at the latest T120. The target of 10 by T25 is a very lucky ideal but it puts you in the right mindset... as much culture early as possible. Easpecially as realistically you want a detour to drama for theatres ... having some flat sand for Magnus to get pyramids with a couple of chops will speed this up with the inspiration. Getting harvest is just so powerful, I my scout sees something that will give me 25 faith early with a quick pillage I will declare war regardless and sacrifice my scout to get it, it will not be a holy site this early but quite a few luxe’s give faith. Harvest and monumentality will shorten your game by 20-30 turns or more.... so classic golden also which typically mean army.... but also remember, pillaging a quarry gives 25 culture when you are creating 5 per turn is a big boost. When my first goody hut gives me a scout I never stop building the second one because they are such flexible and handy units early, especially as they are primary targets for both barbs and civs.

So what is the best way to go about getting an early army? Agoge chop with the early slingers after scout settler? Or just buy them?

I have played my first 70 turns in an emperor Germany game and I feel like this progress is very slow. Its definitely a potential science map as there are two science city states nearby. No Harvest, I took divine spark as a challenge to focus on chopping and overflow but at T70 I have 5 cities. Im currently teching Stirrups and Defensive Tactics. I have a lot of land to expand to and I have 10 cities which I can easily get but I don't know how to get them quickly. Kongo is a bit of a nuisance as he tried to forward settle one of the locations I had claimed, so I had to steal the settler (which was unguarded) How would you approach this map? I think I may be playing my turns out too quickly and not planning enough.

 

[Victoria]

I think I may be playing my turns out too quickly and not planning enough.

This is my issue also. I really have to slow myself down to play the map well.
Your map is nice but I am confused about Mainz... I would have settled it on the swamp
More importantly Cologne has desert with no pyramid and Kinchissa is not in rough ground and Kongo are weak early so I do not know why you have not attacked.... unless you are playing peacefully which is harder.
I also look at your troops, you should be chopping in your pyramid and having slingers left over, chopping in your plaza and having slingers left over... I do not recommend having 100 slingers... just 6 on deity maybe 1-2 less... but deity really needs 6. I see 3 warrior and an archer.

get 1 settler out, try and save gold for the second or for monument/s .. Did you sell open borders?

Most importantly it is 2 weeks until our world completely changes... maybe all of this will change also... but yes, this keeps us amused and happy to help out

So what is the best way to go about getting an early army? Agoge chop with the early slingers after scout settler?

As above and you said... agoge chop... 2 jobs at once... god of the forge would also speed this up. Use gold for settler/monument... even a granary sometimes, troops are 4x gold so not a good investment when they can be 0.5x with chop, less with magnus.