HOW TO[with blender]: do a simple rig/assign vertecies with bones

3DS=HAT.
DO NOT EXPORT A 3DS UNLESS I TELL YOU TO. :)
Get your mind off it dude. :)
I'm very confused about what we're talking about right now so I'll back out I just wanted to put my .02$ in... :p
 
I'm not doing a 3ds...all nif. but in roland's tutorial it only has switching the new and old LH. But my New LH doesn't have the body or suit connected and I'm trying to figure what needs to happen for that and follow roland's tutorial about switchingthe numbers for trishape.
 
GarretSidzaka said:
hey DK, just export the hat from blender separately. it doesnt need nifskoping just nifviewing
Click to expand...
What are you talking about eh? :p To add a hat you can just copy and paste in the new version of nifskope.
Oh and sorry Ekmek, I saw the word "3Ds" and got confused. ;)
 
Ekmek said:
thx, so how do I get the suit on the bones? nikskope? sceneviewer? blender? and based on C Roland's tutorial what do I do with the suit since it separate from the body just add it as a "child"?
Click to expand...

ok, lets, recap...tell me if this is correct and how far u have gotten, and i'll try to walk u through my method....

in blender...
1) u got charlemange's head and hands as one object, connected to their apropriate bones (u can verify that the verticies are connected to the proper bones using the "buttons" window as described above)
2)u got linclon's suit as a seperate object, and NOT connected/assigned to ANY BONES....

is this correct so far???:)
 
thats correct! here is what I've done

In Blender:
import charlemagne nif
removed gold crown
removed red part of crown (they were separate) using faces thing
removed beard using faces thing
removed charlie's suit using faces.
saved nif
closed blender
imported abe
separated abe's suit using faces
exported abe's suit as nif
found out tie and buttons separte so exported those at nif.

reimported "naked" charlie (just head with bones and hands)
imported abe's suit
imported tie
aligned everything
exported as nif (JeffEX4.nif)
closed blender

opened nikskope
opened original charlemgne.nif
opened new window with jeffEX.nif
per Roland's tut i copied all of jeffex
pasted all of jeffex into charlie.nif
foundout that jeffex ninode has 3 trishape parts: suit, charlie's head & hands & bones, and tie as separte unattached trishapes
tried to replace original charlie trishap with jeffdavis trishape (renimbering of childen in nearest ninode)
it replace but only bones but moved charlie and his robe out of ninode
need to get suit and tie in there somehow

(all this can be see with file attached earlier http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166048&d=1198022653)

tried to use scieneviewer to bring the suit under right branch and that made things really squirrely

thx for the help. I hope I can finish this before xmas :)
 
ok...lets, back up to BEFORE u "opened nifskope"....
1) did u save a charlie.BLEND file, (NOT charlie.NIF) with bones (it is ok if u removed all that other stuff, the important thing is that the head and the hands are still assigned to the appropriate bones (check with "buttons" window in EDIT mode), this will assure that the LH will have the proper animations later on....
2) (object mode) open the charlie.BLEND file in blender and IMPORT the abe_suit.NIF. now u have two objects in blender.
3) (object mode) align the suit with the head and hands...
4) (object mode) JOIN the two meshes (make sure u ONLY join the meshes, dont join the bones with the meshes...the way i usually do this is by selecting the "head & hands" and the i use the B key to select a very small peice of the suit, so both meshes r now in pink, BUT NOT THE BONES....JOIN in object mode with Ctrl-J
5) ok, now in blender, u have ONE mesh, with the whole body (head, hands and suit)
6) go to EDIT MODE....at this time, u should have your 3D window on top and your buttons window on the bottem...in the buttons window, if u click, lets say, the L hand or the R cheek and u press SELECT, u will see the corresponding vertices of the selected bone LIGHT UP, NOWWWWWW....if everything has gone RIGHT up to now, and u do the same for, lets say, the R forearm, NOTHING will light up because your suit is UNASSIGNED:D :D \
7) Method 1: i have not done the this, but it is easier and i believe that both dutchking and CRoland have preformed this method....manually select the suit and ASSIGN the whole thing to the torso bone (I think u would also have to UNASSIGN the hands and assign them to the torso) this method will (later on) give u a moving head but the body/hands wont move much
8) METHOD 2: morew tedious, but moving hands!...open a SEPERATE blender window and IMPORT abe. u should now have two windows side by side, one with your custom LH and one with abe, both in EDIT mode, both with 3d view on top and buttons window on bottom. go to your ABE LH. in the buttons window (vertex group) click "b_clavicle_R": and then SELECT...u will see the corresponding vertices in abe's suit light up now comes the tedious part, go to your custom job and do the same thing...nothing lights up right....well, u know what u have to do....use your mouse to manually LIGHT UP the verticies in your custom LH that correspond to abe's "b_clavicle_R" bone. when u r done, (make sure your custom LH's vetex group is properly chosen, that is it is on "b_clavicle_R") and click ASSIGN.....now, those areas of the suit are CORRECTLY assigned to charlies BONE!!!!, u will have to repeat this process for the clavicles, biceps, torso, shoulders, clav-shoulders, and forearms (basically anything that is NOT the head and hands).
9) if ALL this went correctly, now, u have one COMPLETE mesh (hands, head and suit) ALL assigned to ONE set of bones.
10) NOW its time to follow CROland's TUT....select ALL in blender (deselect lights and camera and EXPORT as custom nif....go to nifskope...

whew.....:)
 
Ekmek said:
no I didnot I exported it to a nif. Does this mean I have to start over?
Click to expand...

hmm, dont really know :confused: ....i will usually save several blend and nif files at different "stages", just in case i messed something up :) , u may not have to start over if your "charlie.nif" opens correctly in blender and the verticies are attached to their proper bones.....then, i would save as a *.blend and go from there.
 
fortunately I saved several versions as nifs and then went from there. I went through rolands tutorial things appeared to go alright. i then went to sceneviewer and deleted the teeth and extra hair just to see if i can get something in game. But the weird thing is that my LH won't show at all. not sure what happened with that.

I did look in nikskope and saw that the trishape charlemagne:0 and charlemage:1 that I replaced have a lot of stuff that my stuff doesn't. Maybe the bones?

if your "charlie.nif" opens correctly in blender and the verticies are attached to their proper bones.....then, i would save as a *.blend and go from there.
Click to expand...

How do I know if the vertices are correctly attached?
 
Ekmek said:
fortunately I saved several versions as nifs and then went from there. I went through rolands tutorial things appeared to go alright. i then went to sceneviewer and deleted the teeth and extra hair just to see if i can get something in game. But the weird thing is that my LH won't show at all. not sure what happened with that.

I did look in nikskope and saw that the trishape charlemagne:0 and charlemage:1 that I replaced have a lot of stuff that my stuff doesn't. Maybe the bones?



How do I know if the vertices are correctly attached?
Click to expand...

1) import the charlie.nif into blender (the one with the head and hands).
2) in object mode, if the bones are there, u will see those pointy things coming out of the eyes and mouth...those pointy things are the bones. in object mode, the mesh and bones should be seperate, that is, they both DONT light up in pink when u select one of them....
3) select the MESH and go to EDIT mode.
4) set up your screen so u have your 3D window on top and a BUTTONS window on the bottom (if u look at fidel's pics i the tutorial, u will see the set up)
5) look at the tutorial on how to click the vertex group (bones) in the "links and materials" button and see if the proper verticies "light up" when u select them....for example, if u click the "hand_R" bone, and click select, the r hand verticies should light up in yellow....IF u do NOT see buttons under where it says vertex groups, the bones are not there.
 
quick question. how come my hands and sleeves don't line up. I asume its because the position of abe and charlie. do I need to line them up before assigning the bones to the sleeves? if so how? (SEE ATTACHED PIC)


EDIT:

In the middle of doingthis:
4) (object mode) JOIN the two meshes (make sure u ONLY join the meshes, dont join the bones with the meshes...the way i usually do this is by selecting the "head & hands" and the i use the B key to select a very small peice of the suit, so both meshes r now in pink, BUT NOT THE BONES....JOIN in object mode with Ctrl-J
5) ok, now in blender, u have ONE mesh, with the whole body (head, hands and suit)
6) go to EDIT MODE....at this time, u should have your 3D window on top and your buttons window on the bottem...in the buttons window, if u click, lets say, the L hand or the R cheek and u press SELECT, u will see the corresponding vertices of the selected bone LIGHT UP, NOWWWWWW....if everything has gone RIGHT up to now, and u do the same for, lets say, the R forearm, NOTHING will light up because your suit is UNASSIGNED \
7) Method 1: i have not done the this, but it is easier and i believe that both dutchking and CRoland have preformed this method....manually select the suit and ASSIGN the whole thing to the torso bone (I think u would also have to UNASSIGN the hands and assign them to the torso) this method will (later on) give u a moving head but the body/hands wont move much
Click to expand...

Is there a reason why you cannot assign before joining the meshes. Just came to me as a question half way through this. it might be easier unless there is a reason i dont understand.
 
Ekmek said:
quick question. how come my hands and sleeves don't line up. I asume its because the position of abe and charlie. do I need to line them up before assigning the bones to the sleeves? if so how? (SEE ATTACHED PIC)


EDIT:

In the middle of doingthis:


Is there a reason why you cannot assign before joining the meshes. Just came to me as a question half way through this. it might be easier unless there is a reason i dont understand.
Click to expand...

COOL!...

ok, question 1) to line up the sleeves u will have to do a little mesh-work :eek: (don't worry, sleeves are no too hard....) in EDIT MODE and your abe mesh selected, "light up" the verticies of the sleeve (do ONE sleeve at a time), like not ALL the way to the elbow, but right under....now, y have, lets say the right sleeve lit....CENTER your view in FRONT(#1 NUM), SIDE (#3 NUM) and TOP (#7 NUM)....go back to FRONT view....with your mouse, drag the lit verticies so the sleeve edge is near the wrist, where u want it...if u want to move both sleeves EXACTLY the same, u MIGHT want to look at the little "coordinate values" (on the bottom left of the window) and write those numbers down (they tell u how much in each of the 3 dimensions u moved the selected verticies)....when u ar satisfide with the position, SWITCH to SIDE view....ahh, not so precise right!, well do the same thing, in side view, drag your verticies to the wrist yo where u want it, jot down those numbers if u want to be exact again....u can also look at the top view, but front andf side angles are usually enough...u can also now Cntl-Mouse and look around to see if u like the position....i DO NOT recommend moving verticies around in "ODD" views, cuz u really can't go back to that, but y can ALWAYS go back to FRONT, SIDE and TOP.....then, do the same with the other sleeve:D

question 2) if u assign BEFORE joining the meshes u will have MESSES :D:( :D
one thing i noticed in your pic....u have abe's suit selected and in seems it still has it's bones :cry: , i saw the "vertex groups" and there are buttons down there....u want to have a CLEAN object/mesh, (read my EUREKA post)NO BONES ABOUT IT, so u can then join abe's suit mesh to CHARLIE'S bones. :)
EDIT: actually taking another look at your suit, u might want to make it (or just the arms) a little smaller (those are some LONG arms)..the easiest wat to do that is by selecting the verticies, perhaps to mid bicep and using your S (scale) key....then, move the sleev to the wrist
 
Yeah it was clean. The reason why you see it selected is because I assigned one part (in faces mode easier than edit mode) and then decided to assign th whole suit. I figure I'd just like to get it in game before I become a perfectionist.


So I assigned it all to the torso. I have the merged meshes and I go to Roland's tutorial.

The attached picture shows the most confusing part. On the left is my jeffdavis and the right is the original charlemagne.

Now Roland says to replace trishapes by editing the numbers. I've done that before, but the discrepance I notice between mine and the original is the part NiSkinInstance when I click charlemagne it takes his whole body and that trishape has these skininstance which I assume are the bones or bone links. Mine does not have these and my suit doesn't have Abe's NiTexturingProperty (I copied and pasted that branch to get it back). Why am I losing this stuff? does it matter? if it does how do I get it back? Do I copy the branches in my new one then bring my new body into old charlemagne or do I have to go back to blender?

edit:
Bernie, I know I have to be getting annoying ;) but i think I missed some step or something is wrong. even cRolands part2 tutorial shows those skininstances which are dropping from mine for some reason. If can could you look at my blends and nifs to see what the problem is?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/20358/JeffDavis-test.zip

Thanks,
 
Ekmek said:
Yeah it was clean. The reason why you see it selected is because I assigned one part (in faces mode easier than edit mode) and then decided to assign th whole suit. I figure I'd just like to get it in game before I become a perfectionist.


So I assigned it all to the torso. I have the merged meshes and I go to Roland's tutorial.

The attached picture shows the most confusing part. On the left is my jeffdavis and the right is the original charlemagne.

Now Roland says to replace trishapes by editing the numbers. I've done that before, but the discrepance I notice between mine and the original is the part NiSkinInstance when I click charlemagne it takes his whole body and that trishape has these skininstance which I assume are the bones or bone links. Mine does not have these and my suit doesn't have Abe's NiTexturingProperty (I copied and pasted that branch to get it back). Why am I losing this stuff? does it matter? if it does how do I get it back? Do I copy the branches in my new one then bring my new body into old charlemagne or do I have to go back to blender?

edit:
Bernie, I know I have to be getting annoying ;) but i think I missed some step or something is wrong. even cRolands part2 tutorial shows those skininstances which are dropping from mine for some reason. If can could you look at my blends and nifs to see what the problem is?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/20358/JeffDavis-test.zip

Thanks,
Click to expand...

NP my freind, always glad to help, i gotta go out w/the family tonight, but i'll take a look at it when i get back....
 
thx. i'm still working so I may upload another file later


Edit:

ok much more project. after going back to the blender drawing board yet again (i'm so tired of seeing abe's suit in polygon) I as able to attach it and this time my exported nif had the skin instance (blender versioned with B). so I did the replace like in CRolands tutorial. It looked messy (a lot of weird stray lines) but I saved that nif (versioned with N extension in zip). And then did some preliminary body moving in sceneviewer and then saved it (version with S). then my folder I copied and renamed it the original charlemage (I have all abe and charlie's stuff in my jeffdavis folder). When I went to view in game it just had charlies head and moving hand. the suit was invisible. So I'm getting closer.

I did assign the suit to the torso which also assigned the head. I had to add back abe's texture stuff by copying and pasting it from nikskope with the original abe to my jeffdavis. Is that the problem- that it cant find thetexture? but i thought it would show pink if thats the problem.

anyways heres the files - blends from my progress and then the 3 nif files from blender, nikskope, and sceneviewer. Hope that helps trcking down the problem. Thanks for assistance.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/20358/jeffdavis_test2.zip
 
^....i was not able to open any of the previous nif files (your first pack), but i was able to open the jeffdavis_body.blend and work with it....i did some of the same things u did in your last post, BUT the big mystery is that no matter how i export lincoln's suit (and i started from scratch as well, with bones, without bones, merged to the tie & butons or unmerged, in 20.0.0.4 and 4.2.2.0), when the suit becomes a nif, IT LOOSES ITS TEXTURE MEMORY?????, i reopened it in blender and if u go to UV mapping, u will see it just shows a square intersected by a dash, making to triangles, this essentuially means that the suit has "lost it's memory" of HOW to wrap around the mesh....this is the first time this has happened to me with any texture, LH or unit :confused: :confused:...
 
Ekmek said:
man, my first leaderhead and find something new :( Where should I go from here? - cut off charlie's head and paste it over abe's? Or should I just go with fdr's or churchill's suit? (do you happen to have any of those in already separated in a blend or nif?)
Click to expand...

i know that fdr's suit is ok to use, have not tried churchill's, i would not recommend putting charlie's head on abe cuz either u would have to re-assign ALL the head/face bones to ABE or it would not move...

btw..i have fdr's suit (attached) and i can quickly make u a churchil if u like that one better:)

EDIT: churchill attached and i am happy to say the nif retains it's "texture memory" :D
 
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