killmeplease
Mk Z on Steam
shouldn't it be 45?
How Underground Sect actually works
- Thread starter Aenthin
- Start date
shouldn't it be 45?
FWIW, now that I have a mechanism for reliably converting CS and even AI cities (Thanks Aenthin!), I am still having struggling to make that game-changing. I have tried with DCL France and DCL Siam OCC. I will probably go back to the Egypt DCL and give US a try there
The problem is needing 3 Piety policies and 2 in Patronage. And you want all that early. So taking those picks from Tradition or Rationalism has made my games weaker over all (although I am still buzzed from having half the map following my religion).
The problem is needing 3 Piety policies and 2 in Patronage. And you want all that early. So taking those picks from Tradition or Rationalism has made my games weaker over all (although I am still buzzed from having half the map following my religion).
I have tried US in a few more games -- it is still not game-changing for me. At deity, I cannot get even a DiploV opening Piety. I have had tried Liberty-Piety mix with a little bit more success, but it still not working out as well as ignoring religion did. Also, I think Jesuit Education or To The Glory of God would have been just as strong.
My latest experiments have been with World Church, since I figured that now that I can convert cities (and keep them converted), the extra culture might at least pay back the policies I put into Piety. I am ending games with 50+ cpt from my religion -- but that does not seem like enough to give me a whole extra tree. Maybe I should stick with Tithe?
I had also expected to have more success getting other civs to propose World Religion. Has anyone else been using US lately?
My latest experiments have been with World Church, since I figured that now that I can convert cities (and keep them converted), the extra culture might at least pay back the policies I put into Piety. I am ending games with 50+ cpt from my religion -- but that does not seem like enough to give me a whole extra tree. Maybe I should stick with Tithe?
I had also expected to have more success getting other civs to propose World Religion. Has anyone else been using US lately?
HorseshoeHermit
20% accurate as usual, Morty
Why would you need 2 policies in Patronage? That's a terrible short circuit.
Spend the gold and do actual quests.
Ultimately, Piety is itself the big cost. Maybe US could be viewed as a half-decent lifeboat if you attempt a Piety game, other civs unexpectedly swarm Piety track themselves, and you gotta take what you can when you get there. After all, now with strategies depending on religion, US is not just a consolation prize, but mobile holy cities to counter those enemy religions.
... in theory.
But not my point about Patronage. Good lord, why would you do that with policies? Use the efficient tools to get your short-term ends, otherwise keep your eye on the bigger picture.
I think you want the opener and consulates -- if you are trying to min/max Papal Primacy -- all before spending gold and really focussing on quests.
Consulates + Papal Primacy == indefinite friendly status with zero gold nor additional effort. There is nothing more efficient!
killmeplease
Mk Z on Steam
i think reformation and US arent necessary for the CS friendship strategy, that is you can go with 2 policies in piety and 2 in patronage or even no piety if you're lucky to have something like Sinai nearby or you're Ethiopia
US helps most when you want to convert everybody, not just CSs. Theres no religious victory in the game though so its more like a funny toy than an operative instrument..
theres not much you can get from converting everybody to your religion to help you win faster (what you typically want to achieve in the game). not so big tourism bonus and a diplo modifier, thats all besides those smallish follower bonuses which dont repay investment (faith to buy missionaries or opportunity costs in policies and tech steals).
add here the huge disbalance in policies devs surrendered to - piety is just weak in general
US helps most when you want to convert everybody, not just CSs. Theres no religious victory in the game though so its more like a funny toy than an operative instrument..
theres not much you can get from converting everybody to your religion to help you win faster (what you typically want to achieve in the game). not so big tourism bonus and a diplo modifier, thats all besides those smallish follower bonuses which dont repay investment (faith to buy missionaries or opportunity costs in policies and tech steals).
add here the huge disbalance in policies devs surrendered to - piety is just weak in general
reddishrecue
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2009
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- 6,441
I dunno... when it comes to CS acquisition, commerce could put up a good match to making alliances since you make much more gold particularly in large land maps. In other non land maps then you could use other social policies that could make alliances without having to pay all the time and simply with quests.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
I think that is the key... those benefits for converting everyone... and that Tourism bonus is significant (40% with Aesthetics finisher...which you will take if you are going cultural)
In particular US seems good for converting the 'resistant' members... which is important for cultural victory. (that last one)
It can help diplo victory in the sense that
1. you get -25% influence loss (if it is in al civs it will be in all CSs as well)
2. all of the 'non founders' will support your religion as the world religion.2 votes closer.. (it also benefits culture victory with the +50% tourism in the holy city)
HorseshoeHermit
20% accurate as usual, Morty
There is additional effort. Social policy costs increase exponentially.
You can get consulates just from your spare pick waiting for Rationalism to unlock. Thats not the problem...
Right, Papal Primacy is just one of your religious picks -- so no need to open Piety even.
The problem I have with PP though is keeping CS converted -- so I have never actually gotten much out of it on its own. But US is reliable for keeping cities in the fold. But now that is 4 policies -- and it just does not seem worth it.
At Deity, US is not enough to convert the map -- but it is stronger than anything else I have tried.
shaglio
The Prince of Dorkness
Have you tried playing Byzantium and using your bonus belief to take both Itinerant preachers and Religious Texts? I'm not a Deity player so I don't know how well it works on that level. But on lower levels I've had virtually the entire map converted (except the other Holy Cities) with very little effort on my part.
That is a fair point, as I have not played Byzantium in long while. Yes IP+RT is pretty impressive, even at Deity. But that kind of gets at my core US question: Okay, now I can convert and keep cities. So what? Maybe Byzantium with World Church?
shaglio
The Prince of Dorkness
I used to do it with Tithe. Plenty of money to buy your way to a vicotry. Buy your barracks line & army for DomV, buy CS Alliances for DiploV, buy research agreements & SS parts (with Freedom) for SV. Buy Science & Culture buildings for CV I guess - you can't buy Archeologists or Great Works, so this is more of an indirect benefit. Again, though, this is in the Prince/King range, so it might not help on Deity.
reddishrecue
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2009
- Messages
- 6,441
If ip is impressive by itself then rt with ip could be way more impressive when it comes to spreading because ip itself could spread to a lot of cities.
HorseshoeHermit
20% accurate as usual, Morty
That is your best link for how the policy costs increase? How about:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth
But the point is that you have one or two picks between your opening tree and waiting for Rationalism to unlock. Those are fairly characterized as spare picks. If you have two spare picks, Patronage opener and Consulates is very strong play, no matter what your VC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth
But the point is that you have one or two picks between your opening tree and waiting for Rationalism to unlock. Those are fairly characterized as spare picks. If you have two spare picks, Patronage opener and Consulates is very strong play, no matter what your VC.
Agreed with Beetle, only I refer to them as (forced) filler policies.
Obviously if Saved Cultural Policy advanced setting is on, I'd save the culture to pick 2 policies into Rationalism that moment I could could.
Obviously if Saved Cultural Policy advanced setting is on, I'd save the culture to pick 2 policies into Rationalism that moment I could could.
