How would you change existing civs in BNW?

[SnowKomodo]

America seriously need an UA overhaul. It shouldn't be confined to the late 18th century - early 19th century era such as Manifest Destiny (soldiers seeing farther and tiles cost less). America is a colossal powerhouse in terms of culture (artists, musicians, etc.) and was a key player in the Ideology clashes (and the reason Democracy arguably won out of all the three). Seeing as these are all new features in a BNW, America should get some sort of bonus for these.

The thing is, pretty much every great empire excelled in multiple facets. We can't have the Civ game and have too many 'all-around' civs.

That's why they choose specific UAs: to have more focused civs.

 

[Arachnofiend]

The thing about America is that culturally conquering the world is totally a thing it did. Coca-colonization is the closest anyone has ever gotten to the in-game win condition. You can bet your ass that if America had debuted in Brave New World they would have a culture UA.

 

[Harald B]

America dominated culturally because of the economic, military and scientific prowess that came with emerging from WWII as the superpower leading the free world. It was a natural consequence of their dominance in everything else, not a result of being somehow inherently better at culture than other nations.

 

[Birdism]

Its funny, I think the Conquistador is the one that doesnt quite make sense as is, the unit we have right now suggest they were more about exploring and settling, and yes, they were explorers, but they were also all about warfare, loot, and cut throat diplomacy, the colonisation part came much later, until the viceroyalties were stablished. The Conquistador should be for conquering not paceful settling.

The Tercio I think is more representative of actual Spanish military progress, as they used it to carve much of their european possesions, if anything it could use a serious buff, as they were all about the formation and discipline, they could use 15% strenght for every tercio adjacent to it, THEN you would worry about a bunch of Tercios coming to siege your city.

I'd love to see a Spanish civ with a UA that benefited from having a massive colonial empire (as oposed to only key locations), but unless we get a third expansion that adds colonies, I dont think they will get changed much in BNW, if anything they'll be nerfed or at least adjust their gold from discovering NW, to something suitable for BNW.

But in the end, if only they buffed the Tercio I would be happy, they need it.

Interesting, I didn't know the Tercio were that significant. I'm not particularly attached to either UU, so I wouldn't mind either way which one would be replaced. I still think that giving Spain a UI would add interesting gameplay.

I get it, I think its mechanic is rather original. The thing is, settling only key places doesnt sound like colonial Spain to me, sounds more like something the Dutch would do. By the renaissance is not really that hard to have a couple of settlers ready for when I start exploring instead of sacrificing knights. If anything the Conquistador could use a bonus to fighting in diferent continents, and converting citizens to your religion if they take a city. Something to make the Conquistadors about picking a target in another continent, follow with conquest and quick conversion (even better if they have NW).

I think it would make the second exploration fase that much more fun as Spain.

I love these ideas. AFAIK, there aren't any UU that get a bonus for fighting on different continents. It would be fun.

 

[ehecatzin]

Interesting, I didn't know the Tercio were that significant. I'm not particularly attached to either UU, so I wouldn't mind either way which one would be replaced. I still think that giving Spain a UI would add interesting gameplay.

I was actually really surprised they finaly gave them the Tercio in CiV. TBH, If the Conquistador is left as it is, it would be interesting to make it unlockable through Exploration SP and gave Spain either a UB or a UI, that way the settling part can be useful to everyone that wants to make colonies.

But I dont expect much change for Spain unless a third expansion that adds colonies comes along.

 

[Arachnofiend]

America dominated culturally because of the economic, military and scientific prowess that came with emerging from WWII as the superpower leading the free world. It was a natural consequence of their dominance in everything else, not a result of being somehow inherently better at culture than other nations.

I'm not trying to say that American culture is inherently better than others because saying that about any culture is downright silly; what is true is that America has made the best marketing campaign for itself the world has ever seen, modifying long-held fashions and traditions of other, remote cultures to look more American.

I'd like to see America to get a Great Merchant replacement that can do a tourism bomb similar to that of the Great Musician.

 

[Yzman]

I'm not trying to say that American culture is inherently better than others because saying that about any culture is downright silly; what is true is that America has made the best marketing campaign for itself the world has ever seen, modifying long-held fashions and traditions of other, remote cultures to look more American.

I'd like to see America to get a Great Merchant replacement that can do a tourism bomb similar to that of the Great Musician.

Or perhaps something along the lines of the highlighted part?

Multi-Culturalism - America receives 10% of all cultural pressure from other civs added to its own

 

[apocalypse105]

The thing about America is that culturally conquering the world is totally a thing it did. Coca-colonization is the closest anyone has ever gotten to the in-game win condition. You can bet your ass that if America had debuted in Brave New World they would have a culture UA.

Jesus America UAb is fine extra sight means a lot in war time and buying plots for extra cash is powerfull

 

[Gali]

For a number of these civs they are already getting a buff indirectly with BNW. Others will certainly get a rework.

Byzantium. Hey now that sea routes mean you actually care about controlling the ocean in the early game a Dromon might be a great unit. Sure archers can defend your coast line but they can't reliably control a trade route. Ranged and 50% bonus versus naval and stockpile promotions for ranged. Piety seems to have been buffed and Rationalism nerfed. Depending on how good the piety buff is, you might actually use it. If it doesn't lock rationalism anymore and policies are cheaper, both of which are highly likely, it becomes a very interesting choice. That will allow Byzantium a much higher chance of getting a religion. I'd still like a small buff to the UA, but it would help the No UA problem. We haven't seen religion yet but it seems it will still be a powerful source of which has almost certainly been made harder to get. As for the Cataphracht it would fit better balance wise as a knight. Still you will probably need to have trade escorts and a cav unit that keeps defensive bonus might be useful. Still might need a tweak but if things go right could become a fun civ and much less of a gamble.


India- Definitely warrants a UA change. The Mughal fort though could become quite useful now. It will almost certainly get a tourism upgrade and provide a better bonus for a culture victory. UU is pretty darn good and will help keep those land routes open.

America- All I can say is I like it fine and extra sight might help your troops escorting your caravans.

Songhai- I know they aren't a consensus civ for a change but people tend to find them weak. With early gold riskier, due to need to defend caravans, extra money from barbs will be quite useful. Since hunting barbs down is even more valuable to keep open trade routes Songhai will be rewarded even more. If the concern that gold trading will be delayed, due to some screens of greyed out lump sum gold in screenshots, that gold will be even sweeter. Also a temple that gives culture is now more useful. Culture yields are now down, increasing its impact. That could depend if it keeps its current 2 extra or gain great work slot. Also remember Tourism has to overcome the accumulated culture from the moment a civ meets you. So early culture gains will be more useful since they have an extra benefit and have time to bank up.

Germany- Early military still very useful. Can keep those trade routes open and intimidate the Ai into staying at peace and thus as trade partners. Also early gold from camps might be more useful. For late game Panzer plus Lightning War equals death. With Autocracy seeming to have gotten a buff could provide something to look forward to. They tried to model all eras of Germany and it became a mess.

 

[ehecatzin]

Jesus America UAb is fine extra sight means a lot in war time and buying plots for extra cash is powerfull

Both extra sight and extra from strategic resources are useful, I think the problem with both America and Russia is both are supposed to be land grabbers, but both do it in rather boring ways.

For Russia I'd suggest to take away the double resource, and instead give them the reduced culture cost for tiles as part of their UA. So it would end up as:

Siberian Riches
Strategic resources provide +1, -25% Culture cost of acquiring new tiles.
-UI Krepost Adjacent enemy units suffer attrition, doubled if enemy is on tundra. (Must be built within 4 tiles of another Krepost)

The Cossack stays the same.

You get a very powerful border expansion from the get go (that you would get out of old Krepost) so grabbing resources would not be a problem to begin with, and then you use your kreposts to make it hell to invade you, of course the attrition should be tweaked so you only get citadel like damage out of tundras.

It even has synergy with the Cossack, force the enemy to cross your Kreposts and then smash them with Cossacks.


As for America, Im not sure yet how to make the tile purchasing part of their UA more interesting, you should be settling on the bests spots to begin with thanks to extra sight.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Unique improvements never replace anything. They are supplementary.

 

[ehecatzin]

Unique improvements never replace anything. They are supplementary.

Mhh you are right, let me edit that.

even better, you use krepost for attrition and forts for defense.

 

[Gdown94]

I know it's been stated, but I agree that India really need to be fixed.

As to the others:

Byzantium: I like the bonus belief, but I agree that the Catapharact needs to replace a knight. I'd like to see the catapharact have a missionary-like ability, such that they can convert/spread their religion as they conquer.

Mongols: I think the city-state UA is pretty lame myself. It's best to avoid attacking city-states, in my opinion. I'd like to see a foreign-legion like UA, where units get a bonus in foreign lands. It may be a bit strong, but it fits Mongolia well.

America: The UUs are alright, but the UA really needs changed. I would love to see a growth bonus to reflect America's traditionally high immigration. Firaxis could tie this to trade routes somehow as well, encouraging America to become a global economic trading power to benefit from their UA.

 

[Arachnofiend]

Keshiks with the foreign legion promotion? You might as well just drop down a difficulty level if you want to play that. Maybe two, actually.

 

[Seek]

I get it, I think its mechanic is rather original. The thing is, settling only key places doesnt sound like colonial Spain to me, sounds more like something the Dutch would do. By the renaissance is not really that hard to have a couple of settlers ready for when I start exploring instead of sacrificing knights. If anything the Conquistador could use a bonus to fighting in diferent continents, and converting citizens to your religion if they take a city. Something to make the Conquistadors about picking a target in another continent, follow with conquest and quick conversion (even better if they have NW).

I think it would make the second exploration fase that much more fun as Spain.

I'd prefer to keep the Conquistador's settler ability but buff it: when it settles a city 1) it spawns a worker (conquered natives) and 2) the city exerts religious pressure like a Holy City (though not as strong).

 

[codepoet]

Its funny, I think the Conquistador is the one that doesnt quite make sense as is, the unit we have right now suggest they were more about exploring and settling, and yes, they were explorers, but they were also all about warfare, loot, and cut throat diplomacy, the colonisation part came much later, until the viceroyalties were stablished. The Conquistador should be for conquering not paceful settling.

The Tercio I think is more representative of actual Spanish military progress, as they used it to carve much of their european possesions, if anything it could use a serious buff, as they were all about the formation and discipline, they could use 15% strenght for every tercio adjacent to it, THEN you would worry about a bunch of Tercios coming to siege your city.

I'd love to see a Spanish civ with a UA that benefited from having a massive colonial empire (as oposed to only key locations), but unless we get a third expansion that adds colonies, I dont think they will get changed much in BNW, if anything they'll be nerfed or at least adjust their gold from discovering NW, to something suitable for BNW.

But in the end, if only they buffed the Tercio I would be happy, they need it.

Interesting. I think you're correct. By this rationale, Spain should have Indonesia's UA, or something similar. Something that encourages over seas growth. Gaining happiness from over seas cities. Maybe just gain straight-up happiness for cities on continents different than its capital. (Even ones Spain did not settle)

 

[j51]

I really want Greece to get a new ua. I'm sick of Hellenic league - what's diplomacy with NON-GREEK city states have to do with ancient Greece. Frankly, something to reflect their outsize influence in ancient arts and science would be better. Any ideas?

Edit: I've thought of GAs generating +50% science and double (as opposed to +25%) culture. On top of that, the Hoplite can have the GAs promotion, á la the Pracinhas. They're very boring right now, being simply a +3 spearman.

 

[mitsho]

Well, if we get a complete overhaul, I would want to have something like this. Of course, that'd also need a few tweaks and rebalancement to the vanilla game, i.e. a complete overhaul of the navies.

Generally speaking though, they should look at a) those civs that do poorly in the hands of the AI and b) those that have lacking synergy. The A group would probably work well with just some little changes to the personality of the leaders (also, make the early warmongers go first after city states and neighbours).

For the B group, I see those candidates: Ethiopia (Tall and Religion don't mix well so far, but that can change in BNW), Byzantine (needs a religious bonus), Carthage and Byzantine (two classical civs that are very similar (naval+horseman UU)), Songhai (Needs to go for religion to get culture bonus?), Germany (works fine gameplay wise, just not realistic, would need a complete overhaul...*), Celts (just a minor bonus: ease the requirements and add jungles and swamps to forests), Sweden (complete mess...), America (the UA bonus is a good one, but underappreciated, should get sthg for early rapid expansion), Spain (All or nothing and free is bad, I'd rather combine the NW extra yields with a bonus against city states who often hog those wonders after all). And so many more

But those are completely unrealistic. A few easy changes I can see them doing:
- Austria's UB gets a focus on the Great Works People (Artists, Writers, Musicians)
- Arabia's UA goes from gold for trade links to something with trade routes
- And that's all. I can't see them doing any big changes..., maybe the Dutch UA since it shares a name with a National Wonder...

*My proposal: Make Scientists equal to Engineers and the other way around, allowing you to beeline up both sides of the tech tree and not miss out on or
Other proposal: One 'elite' unit per unit line that gets special promotions and is free upon research.

 

[EEE_BOY]

Am I the only one thinks India UA is powerful, just a UB that's less interesting for Human players?

With the new wonder Red Fort, it is likely the UB will be replaced with something else, and I would like only the UB to be changed to something early faith related.

 

[msawchuk]

There are plenty of possible changes that could be made to existing civs. I won't go through them all, but I will suggest a couple.
Mongolia:
Change the keshik so that it cannot move after attacking. It is quite overpowered as it is now. Also, buff the ua in some way, potentially like ehecatzin said and double cs tributes.
Arabia:
Very simple, make camel archers unable to move after attacking.
India:
There are two good options for the ua: 1. Add a faith giving bonus such as +1 faith from cities on rivers and +2 faith from cattle, or +1 faith from river tiles worked by the capital. 2. Add a growth bonus. An example would be +1 food from riverside farms, or +2 food in every city and +10% growth. For the ub, it could either be changed completely or: 1. Give +1 happiness, which would be very valuable for puppet cities that like to build castles. 2. Add an additional +1 culture and make the gold bonus not require flight.
China:
The chu-ko-nu is a little overpowered as it is right now. It could be fixed as simply as lowering the combat strength by 2. The ua is also very powerful. It could be changed to start you out with a gg instead of making them generate faster. While it may not be a big deal most of the time, in multiplayer an extra citadel can change the outcome of a war.
Germany:
Buff the ua by making the chance to convert barbs 100%. Also, increase the cost of their pikeman uu slightly, and give an additional 5 combat strength to the tank uu.
Austria:
I'm not really sure what to do with this ua, but right now it is very powerful on immortal and deity and weak on lower difficulty levels.
England:
The SotL needs to have its combat strength and ranged combat strength lowered slightly, and the longbowman also needs a slight lowering of its combat strength. The ua should add some kind of buff that isn't only useful on archipelago/small continents maps.
Japan:
Change the zero into anything except what it is now.
Aztecs:
Add in some kind of combat buff to the ua. Even though their ua is centered around war, they are actually quite weak at combat due to only having one uu, and it being too early to make great use of. Some examples of boni to add to the ua are: 1. Units ignore terrain costs from jungles. 2. +10 hp healed per pillaged tile. 3. All units gain a 10% combat bonus when attacking in enemy territory.
Babylon:
Reduce gs generation bonus to 25%. Add either +10% science, +1 happiness, or +2 gold to the walls of babylon.
Byzantium:
It doesn't have to be complicated, they just need some way to get more faith. +1 faith from shrines or +1 faith from temples would work. Decreasing the cost of great prophets by 25% would also be a reasonable solution.
Iroquois:
Buff the ua so that all units ignore terrain costs from forests and jungles.
Spain:
Take away the extra gold for finding a natural wonder first and add in a culture bonus of 20% of the next policy cost for finding a natural wonder. Add 50 gold to bonus for discovering a natural wonder. Change double natural wonder yields to +10 gold from natural wonders.
Polynesia:
Change maori warrior's penalty for adjacent enemy units from 10% to 20%.
Denmark:
Add to the ua: All units gain an additional +10 hp from pillaging tiles.