How would you change history?

[Lord Baal]

I've already conceded this point. Wilhelm mistakenly thought that Britain would want to take Germany as its ally to avoid naval cold war. That's the most significant reason Britain joined the Entente.

I know, but since we were poking him, I had to give him a poke for that.

I don't think they did act so stupidly with Serbia. The Austro-Hungarian royal heir was assassinated on behalf of the Serbian government -- that's about as serious a diplomatic crisis as you can get. Perhaps you could criticize Bismarck for establishing the unconditional alliance, being that the Balkans were dangerously unstable. Wilhelm vainly tried to prevent outbreak of war, because he was well aware of the consequences of the alliance webs in Europe. Hence the Willy-Nicky correspondence.

Austria acted incredibly stupidly with regards to Serbia. Their ultimatum was far too harsh, and when Serbia actually accepted all but those articles violating its sovereignty, they invaded. That was stupid. Also, the Serbian government had nothing to do with Archduke Ferdinand's assassination. That was the Black Hand, a Serbian terrorist organisation. Now, many members of the Serbian military were in this group, but that's like saying that the Nigerian government was behind the recent (alleged) terrorist attack on a US airliner.

And Bismarck did not establish any unconditional alliance. Of all people in Europe, do you honestly think Bismarck would be stupid enough to place his nation in an untenable situation by choice? The man is legendary for his shrewdness, though not without a little self-aggrandisement. The Austrian alliance most certainly had conditions attached, and, as with any treaty, Germany could always have ignored it if they so wished. Kind of the opposite of what Britain did with their treaty with France, which they activated despite not having to.

How to change history... the trick would be to alter history so that the Germans completely crush Russia during WW2 (as they were very well doing until it got cold and Hitler got dumb) but are still snarled up enough to not be able to dedicate all of their forces to the western front. Then with Russia in complete disarray after WW2, America scoops up all, and not just part, of the brilliant german scientific community. With no communists to challenge US foreign interests, the US vassalizes war-torn Europe, puts a man on the moon in 1955, crushes the fledgling communist government of North Korea, enjoys a wonderful partnership with a democratic China, and assumes leadership of a one world government by 2005.

Unabashed, unapologetic and unrelenting American Imperialism. Too bad this is just a 'what if' scenario and not reality.

Okay, a few questions. Why would North Korea be Communist if the USSR collapsed? How is the US supposed to vassalise Europe? I don't see the American people standing still for that, to say nothing of the Germans, French, Poles, British, etc.. After all, the American people - and its isolationist Congress - were placated by Truman due to the apparent necessity of an interventionist policy due to Communist advances. Hard to make that argument with Russia crushed. Also, why would China be democratic? Chiang Kai-shek was not noted for his liberal policies.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Why would North Korea be Communist if the USSR collapsed?

Because the south likely would be too.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

Because the south likely would be too.

I dun get it.

 

[Plotinus]

...the US vassalizes war-torn Europe...

Good luck with that. Why, and how? If the US didn't do that after WW1, why would it do so after WW2? What does "vassilizes" mean anyway?

 

[ParkCungHee]

Good luck with that. Why, and how? If the US didn't do that after WW1, why would it do so after WW2? What does "vassilizes" mean anyway?

I assume Atlee would have to send his daughters and some of his sons as hostages and an annual gift of Cattle to Harry Truman.

I dun get it.

Korea was very communist leaning in the aftermath of WWII. The peasants were eager for land reform, and no one but the communists were very serious about the practice, except maybe the Donghaks, and they were alright collaborating with the the Communists. The south had numerous communist uprisings that it really only could suppress with American aid. Take Korea out of the context of Superpower politics, and I really can't picture America bothering to stop Korea from becoming a communist crypto-monarchist state.

 

[LightSpectra]

I assume Atlee would have to send his daughters and some of his sons as hostages and an annual gift of Cattle to Harry Truman.

I lol'd so hard at that.

 

[Lord Baal]

I lol'd so hard at that.

You and me both.

@Park: Half the planet was pro-Communist towards the end of WWII. If the US really wanted somewhere kept capitalist - and Korea, which was right next to China, America's traditional dream-market, which they still haven't given up on - they'd put up the cash to keep it so. But even if you're right about Korea embracing Communism, it still doesn't explain why only the North would be so, as trickofthehand seems to imply.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Half the planet was pro-Communist towards the end of WWII. If the US really wanted somewhere kept capitalist - and Korea, which was right next to China, America's traditional dream-market, which they still haven't given up on - they'd put up the cash to keep it so.

But would communism seem overly threatening without the Soviet Union? Korea was never an open market, or a capitalist economy (except under the Japanese) and the Americans gave up on changing that after two very minor expeditions.
Nevermind America would be busy fighting World War Three with the Europeans.

it still doesn't explain why only the North would be so, as trickofthehand seems to imply.

Oh I get what he was implying, but the whole thing is so silly I decided to have some fun.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Maybe SiLL's plan was simply to stop him contracting throat cancer?

You got it.

What would Friedrich have done to prevent WWI that Wilhelm didn't?

I think it is an established fact that Wilhelm II actually did not want a war. But he lacked fore-sight and strength to prevent it. He rather engaged in his little "projects" like the navy.
Or think of his affection for colonies. Or his exaggerated and out-of-taste speech to the troops before they were sent to China in context of the Boxer Rebellion, which caused furore in all Western Europe.

To me he rather makes the impression of a very small man who wanted to play big time (EDIT: As I learned today before the situation in Europe got tighten up he even pursued a plan to invade the USA ^^. And he seemed to be serious about it). Of course when it got serious he also tried to do something useful - he was not totally blind regarding reality. But he was blind and above all weak enough to think being loud works best. The weak ones are the loud ones.
And if one takes a look at his childhood, all this seems even to make perfect sense.

Friedrich III was quit liberal minded making him almost the opposite of the martial Wilhelm. In contrast to Wilhelm his relationship to Bismarck was also not that bad, which shouldn't have hurt either.

 

[Phrossack]

I'd have Timur live to the age of 90 and invade, then raze, China.

 

[BananaLee]

He still wouldn't do as good a job as Alexander, though.

 

[Phrossack]

Let dead, beaten horses lie.

 

[BananaLee]

But 'tis a fun dead horse to beat. Like Zheng He.

 

[Dodge_272]

I've just been playing Red Alert 3. I don't think I would bother changing history.

 

[Dumanios]

I'd make Benedict Arnold not join the British.

 

[Vandal Warlord]

I'd make Benedict Arnold not join the British.

He left mainly because he wasn't given credit for his victory at Saratoga. However, it might have been best for him to die there, the Continental Army would still have one, and Benedict would have been a national hero.

 

[LightSpectra]

I'd rather that Horatio Gates dies at Saratoga, because (a) then he doesn't steal Arnold's rightly-deserved victory, thus driving him to treason, and (b) so Gates doesn't finish his career as the second worst American general in history, a la the Battle of Camden.

 

[ParkCungHee]

I'd make Benedict Arnold not join the British.

Really? Of all the changes you could make to history...this is just bizzare.
Who suffered because Benedict Arnold switched sides, other then Benedict Arnold?

 

[Omega124]

I would make Korea a total victory for the South. Heck, It might be interesting to see if we see MacArthur's plans used (An invasion of China). That would be highly interesting, possibly even leading that into WWIII.

 

[Phrossack]

MacArthur wanted to nuke China. And as much as I dislike that country, that's going too far, and would end in a radioactive debacle (love that word).