Huge Earth TSL Map

[Linklite]

My opinion of the map has gone down, because with Rise & Fall you can't have civilizations start close together at all otherwise they're eliminated by the Loyalty system. In order to start as France, I couldn't have any civilizations close to me at all, so no Spain, no England, and no Germany (and I couldn't do England with Spain and Germany on the map, either). While the western Europe map is horribly small and can't really adequately fit more than one or two civilizations, I don't like having the loyalty feature dictate what I can and cannot do. Also, can't have Arabia and Egypt on the same map, the loyalty system always takes one of them out.

Freleanor can be played with Germany, she just got OCCd in my game. Still, not a good position, but technically possible.

Other than inflating the size of Europe, I'm not sure what to do, a good 20% of the roster is rendered off limits. You can get maybe three western European civs? England, Germany and a Scandinavian civ could be doable, but that would mean that you can't have Gaul, Scotland, the other Scandinavian civ, Spain, Portugal, Rome, Georgia, Poland, Greece or Macedonia.

Meanwhile, North America is a giant, empty continent that only has 6% chance of having anyone in it. I like the map, I'm enjoying my gane at the moment on it (Bolivar had a slow start, being alone in the Americas, but is loving steamrolling Africa at the minute), but it's a shame that while Russia, Africa, the Americas and to an extent Oceana have become massive landmasses where you easily fit half a dozen civs, Europe is barely larger than on the medium map.

 

[Euterpe]

Freleanor can be played with Germany, she just got OCCd in my game. Still, not a good position, but technically possible.

I just got the EP so my experience is limited, but I do know that certain setups just straight-up don't work. France with Germany and Spain did not work no matter how many times I tried. With England also on that map, England is also eliminated in addition to France. When they're sandwiched like this right at the founding it is over.

I wouldn't be too surprised if France with Germany but not Spain or England could work. The criteria seems to be that if the two cities are bordering each other at the founding then one is not going to survive. I've seen this with anytime I tried to make England and France work in a map, and also with Egypt and Arabia. And, as stated in the above paragraph, if a founding city is in close distance (but not necessarily completely bordering) two or more other civs then it's also over for one if not two of those civs.

I'm disappointed that I haven't been able to find a mod to fix this. None of the mods that "remove" the loyalty system work at all.

 

[PiR]

it's a shame that [...] Europe is barely larger than on the medium map.

With a bigger Europe, Firaxis would have been accused of eurocentrism. This can only come from the community.

I'm disappointed that I haven't been able to find a mod to fix this. None of the mods that "remove" the loyalty system work at all.

You can disable the whole expansion pack, I guess. :/

 

[Gedemon]

With a bigger Europe, Firaxis would have been accused of eurocentrism. This can only come from the community.

They already did that with their initial Earth map, I suppose they just wanted to try the realistic scale approach for this one.

 

[Leah and Rachael]

I don't mind Firaxis being eurocentric in this case, for pragmatic reasons. They've already overrepresented Europe in the number of civs compared to every other region. That's done. So if they're going to make a map, then a map which can comfortably fit the most civs in each region would make the best sense.

I say let them blow up Europe and the Middle East/Mesopotamia in order to accommodate the large number of civs there. Africa, and to a lesser extent Russia and the Americas, will just have to pay the price because of having a smaller amount of civs congregated there.

That said, I totally get why Firaxis went the route they did. And to be honest, sometimes I don't get the fandom... first Firaxis is being inaccurate with certain choices like 'Apocalypse Mode', and then when Firaxis tries to be accurate with an EARTH map that's also a problem. This is why we tend to feel like the devs are not listening at times, because the voices of the fans tends to come out in contradictory directions

 

[Linklite]

...I totally get why Firaxis went the route they did. And to be honest, sometimes I don't get the fandom... first Firaxis is being inaccurate with certain choices like 'Apocalypse Mode', and then when Firaxis tries to be accurate with an EARTH map that's also a problem. This is why we tend to feel like the devs are not listening at times, because the voices of the fans tends to come out in contradictory directions

To note, I've never complained that Apocalypse Mode was inaccurate. I don't really like it, but my criticisms have always been gamely related.

Fans aren't monolithic and we have different views. Personally, I see it primarily as a game and so my view is that what makes it a good game makes it good. If I'd have been part of thebdesign proces for the map, I'd probably have initially argued for a true to life representation. When the initial drafts came through, I'd have realised the problem when Europe has 19 of the 15 civs yet is dwarfed by the US where only 3 civs can spawn and argued strongly that it be changed. You may never get it balanced without destroying the map, but slightly more balanced so you don't have to micromanage the set up would be nice.

 

[Uberfrog]

I think TSL is a losing battle in Civ 6. There’s never going to be enough space on the map for all civs. I understand there are a lot of TSL fans, and I can see the appeal, but the game just isn’t designed to play that way.

Even if you inflated Europe to a preposterous extent there would still be inevitable issues: Byzantium/Ottomans, Rome/Vatican...

You are just going to have to carefully select civs and CS to have a good time on any TSL map.

 

[Leah and Rachael]

W

To note, I've never complained that Apocalypse Mode was inaccurate. I don't really like it, but my criticisms have always been gamely related.

Fans aren't monolithic and we have different views. Personally, I see it primarily as a game and so my view is that what makes it a good game makes it good. If I'd have been part of thebdesign proces for the map, I'd probably have initially argued for a true to life representation. When the initial drafts came through, I'd have realised the problem when Europe has 19 of the 15 civs yet is dwarfed by the US where only 3 civs can spawn and argued strongly that it be changed. You may never get it balanced without destroying the map, but slightly more balanced so you don't have to micromanage the set up would be nice.

Well, this wasn't aimed at YOU specifically. Apologies if it came out that way.
Since fans are not a monolith - and I agree - then it should be easy to excuse yourself from my critique if you don't fall under that umbrella

 

[McKeu]

I would prefer an Earth map where each civ can fit min. 3 cities comfortably in their allocated space. But that map would blow the limit of anything seen so far in civ.
I mean... the whole of Germany doesn't only consist of Aachen (of all cities).

 

[Linklite]

W

Well, this wasn't aimed at YOU specifically. Apologies if it came out that way.
Since fans are not a monolith - and I agree - then it should be easy to excuse yourself from my critique if you don't fall under that umbrella

Yeah I know it wasn't aimed at me in particular. There are a lot of complaints on this board about fans being contradictory, but on my experience they're not - we just have some who approach it from one angle (eg me approaching it as a game) and other who approach it from another (there seems to be a lot who approach it as a historical similator) and so people are being consistent, even if there is always someone who is disappointed.

 

[Linklite]

I would prefer an Earth map where each civ can fit min. 3 cities comfortably in their allocated space. But that map would blow the limit of anything seen so far in civ.
I mean... the whole of Germany doesn't only consist of Aachen (of all cities).

As much as I'd love to agree with you, I can't. Such a map would turn my Switch into molten slag!

 

[Uberfrog]

As much as I'd love to agree with you, I can't. Such a map would turn my Switch into molten slag!

Not to mention that it would create balance problems elsewhere. If, say, the map is scaled to allow the Netherlands or Scotland to fit three cities within their core historical borders, places like the Sahara and Siberia would be truly vast expanses of desert and tundra. The TSL Mediterranean map is already bad enough in creating such a huge useless desert, and it’s nowhere near that big!

 

[Euterpe]

You can disable the whole expansion pack, I guess. :/

Well, I bought the EP, so I'd rather not do that.

Fortunately, I found out that I just don't know how mods apply in this game. I noticed last night that when I started a brand new game a mod I had installed ("Always Loyal", I think) was showing up in the mods list. Now, I had been starting new games and having not success, but I was starting them from a configuration (A TS Earth Huge with some tweaks I made) and I had no idea that starting from that configuration disabled any mods since I created it. =/

So... It's working and I successfully have a TS Earth game running with Spain, France, England, and Germany. It's a mess, and I'm sad that I don't have the loyalty feature at all but it's really annoying anyway, I guess.

 

[PiR]

Even if you inflated Europe to a preposterous extent there would still be inevitable issues: Byzantium/Ottomans, Rome/Vatican...

With delayed spawns that is feasible.

 

[SaboteurINT]

Is river flooding working on This map ?

 

[EricTheGreat12]

Is river flooding working on This map ?

It does work, but like on all other maps, it doesn't actually show the animation taking place when it should be.

 

[Evie]

There will never be a TSL earth map where every civ can have three cities withing their historical borders. The number of micro-european nations in the game, plus the number of European + Middle East civs that lived in the same region at different times kill that idea dead.

Almost everyone (sorry Gaul, but no way to get both you in Belgium and the Dutch) being able to build a city on their starting location regardless of who else is in game is probably the best that Portugal, Netherlands and Scotland can hope for. But really, reducing Europe to something like Four-five civs max is the way TSL should be played.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Is river flooding working on This map ?

No, it isn't:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/1-0-12-9-tsl-huge-earth-map-river-label-and-dam.669574/

 

[MisterBoomBoom]

Something as simple and more game conscious as making the Adriatic Sea one hex wide instead of two leads the many mystifying choices made on this map.

 

[blackbutterfly]

It does work, but like on all other maps, it doesn't actually show the animation taking place when it should be.

Nope. Sorry.

Only TSL Mediterranean has river flooding and dams.
AFAIK it's the only Firaxis map (built by World Builder not map script) that has river flooding and dams.