Humankind Game by Amplitude

Ok, I start as a nameless nomadic tribe, I learn horseback riding and wheel, build a few chariots. Now I am Hittites.

With my early offensive army I conquer a few regions and build an empire. Now I am Rome at classical era.

With my large empire I focus on science and perhaps surpass other civs, so now I am Korea at medieval era.

Thanks to my tech lead, I discover new continents and build colonies oversea. Now I am Portugal (or Spain) at renaissance era.

With riches coming from colonies, I focus on industry, become production leader. Now I am Great Britain at industrial era.
I do not know what to make up here, so can I be Germany at modern era? :beer:


So this is how a game will progress?
 
Ok, I start as a nameless nomadic tribe, I learn horseback riding and wheel, build a few chariots. Now I am Hittites.

With my early offensive army I conquer a few regions and build an empire. Now I am Rome at classical era.

With my large empire I focus on science and perhaps surpass other civs, so now I am Korea at medieval era.

Thanks to my tech lead, I discover new continents and build colonies oversea. Now I am Portugal (or Spain) at renaissance era.

With riches coming from colonies, I focus on industry, become production leader. Now I am Great Britain at industrial era.
I do not know what to make up here, so can I be Germany at modern era? :beer:


So this is how a game will progress?

You choose your civ, it's not assigned based on your actions.

But if you happen to have some horses and close neighbors, Hittites would be a good choice.
 
With my large empire I focus on science and perhaps surpass other civs, so now I am Korea at medieval era.
Hopefully Amplitude does not perpetuate Firaxis' strange obsession with Sejong's science. Korea became a science powerhouse in the 90s, which is no doubt why Firaxis focused in on Sejong's academies, but I wouldn't say that a focus on science has been characteristic of the bulk of Korea's history. Since Amplitude is clearly not considering themselves bound by Firaxis' traditions, I'm hoping Amplitude will instead focus on Korea's religious and cultural history (Goryeo ware, anyone?).
 
A new PC Gamer article:
https://www.pcgamer.com/humankind-rewrites-the-rules-of-civilization/

Perhaps you’ll find you’re particularly dominant in the Bronze Age—in that case, it might make sense to dawdle there for as long as possible, forgoing progress to collect stars and enjoy the sun. Conversely, a small and scrappy civilisation might cash in the few stars it has and move to the next age as soon as possible, looking to outmanoeuvre old empires with new traits, buildings, and units.

Here's another one. It's so badly translated, it's both hilarious and difficult to read. Endless Space is Countless Area, for example.

https://heraldpublicist.com/humanki...ing-to-do-things-differently-to-civilization/

But it does have one noteworthy part about units. The gist is that you may want to keep around units from older Ages for a little bit because "the experienced veteran with a bow is sometimes more deadly than the novice with a primitive gun".

Also, Is this a Winged Hussar or a mounted Samurai unit?
8Y9TRAo.png


It has two somethings sticking out of their backs, which make me think wings, but they could be flags. The spears look European, but the armor looks Asian.
 
Last edited:
A new civ game needs a feature of Humankind and some sort of CK II leader system. Leaders that die, have children etc. Civ games are not realistic at all. Eternal leaders seem so silly. But Civ I came out over 25 years ago. Time for a change.

The same applies to Civs like Canada that you choose to play in 4.000 BC. They did not even existed. That is why I always liked/prefered the ancient civs, not the modern ones. That's why, I did not want or like Canada/Australia etc. civs to be added in the game. Because it did not feel natural. Now I know why I did not like to play those civs. It got to me.

Also graphically, I choose to play a civ in 4,000 BC. And the guy from Canada wears a suit from modern times. XD This is CIV VI. Even in CIV l leaders changed their clothes according to eras.

This is not immersive at all. Firaxis should fix it, especially because they charge too much for their games nowdays. And the 25th Collectors' Edition was some kind of a joke. It was even hard to sell it, but I managed to do so after many years!

I will definately check it out. This game seems so interesting. Looks very good.

But I just wanted to say that any competition in 25 years is good. Firaxis needs it. They need to develop and compete with someone. No competition means no big revolution. It becomes just boring.
 
But I just wanted to say that any competition in 25 years is good. Firaxis needs it. They need to develop and compete with someone. No competition means no big revolution. It becomes just boring.
I don't agree with this statement on a fundamental level. Change just for the sake of change is not necessarily good, and revolutions should come from a need of change, not just from a default idea that things need to be turned over. I agree that competition can be good, but the reason that Civ6 is - imo. - not as good a game as Civ5 was is not lack of change. It's because of lack of quality. Not that Civ6 doesn't have a lot of good quality stuff, but too many game features suffer from poor implementation (from minor stuff like road placement to big stuff like the world congress, and of course there's the ever-present issue of the AI).

Through the last 20 years, I've been following two game series devotedly: Civilization and Heroes Of Might And Magic. The latter one was killed completely by developers thinking that change just for the sake of change was a good thing. After the hitt-and-miss Heroes 4, the genre was actually revived by the back-to-the-roots Heores 5, which had all the elements to be the foundation of a glorious base for the future of the series, only to be demolished completely by a developer team who "didn't want to be restrained by old concepts" and who "wanted to fully implement their own vision", which became the abysmal Heroes 6, which completely failed to understand what was the magic of the series for the fans. I think there was an attempt at a reboot with Heroes 7 - but by the same developer team, and the result was not a success, I didn't even bother to get that one.

My point is: Change for the sake of change is not what we should wish for.
 
Ok, I start as a nameless nomadic tribe, I learn [...] So this is how a game will progress?
You choose your civ, it's not assigned based on your actions.
But if you happen to have some horses and close neighbors, Hittites would be a good choice.
'Worshiper of the God of the Open Sky' would be a good choice, too.

With "Civilization" on the label people seem to develop much more enthusiasm to BE it, to live it out (something, what can happen to you, be assigned to you) than with eg. "Pantheon Beliefs" on the label, which seems to connote more to acquiring some perhaps useful, arbitrary new attributes to your entity. Exciting vs. boring. The mechanics are the same, but being 'The Hittites' inheres a magic, which eg. 'Worshiper of the God of the Open Sky' or 'Constructor of Stonehenge' etc. is deprived of.
Well, what can one expect on Civilization Fanatics Center? :)

.
 
Hopefully Amplitude does not perpetuate Firaxis' strange obsession with Sejong's science. Korea became a science powerhouse in the 90s, which is no doubt why Firaxis focused in on Sejong's academies, but I wouldn't say that a focus on science has been characteristic of the bulk of Korea's history. Since Amplitude is clearly not considering themselves bound by Firaxis' traditions, I'm hoping Amplitude will instead focus on Korea's religious and cultural history (Goryeo ware, anyone?).

Well, Germany gets U-boat as unique unit, and Egypt has river bonuses and chariots, so I would say it is entirely possible that Korea is science + hwachas.

(I dont mind the u-boats btw I love them)
 
I disagree with what you say Civ allows you to do. To me Civ does not allow me to see what would happen if the Aztec became the dominant power in the world, without morphing into a later real-world super power. Aztec in the modern era are analogous to any -Western- super power of the same era. Aside from the music and unique buildings, there is nothing in Civ that really makes the Civilization you are playing set its own course. They all, always, end up in the same corner: our current, western world. It's actually quite sad in my opinion.

That's overanalysing - the units and options in Civ games (other than the Strategic Defence Initiative, Giant Death Robot, X-COM Squads and Civ VI's entire Future era) are all things that existed in the real world. Since the Aztecs never did develop modern technologies there aren't any modern Aztec units they could have drawn from. The point is not that Civ represents a plausible alternate history, it's that people are playing as what they think of as the Aztecs (because that's what the game calls them and they have stereotyped 'Aztec' abilities) and leading them to a greatness they never had in reality. Most players aren't going to look any deeper than that.

Democracy in the modern times, because the USA adopted it then (nevermind the pure democracy in Greece, or tribal democracy).

Republic/Classical Republic has always been Civ's take on classical systems (and resulted in voting in those versions of Civ that had that mechanic) - yes, it combines everything from that era into an abstraction, but then 'Democracy' groups modern US Republican systems and British-derived Parliamentary democracy into a single system, since while the distinction is largely neglected in modern discussions of 'democracy' the two systems have different origins (the US system as a deliberately novel political framework based on a combination of existing British-inherited institutions and a conscious revival of classical democratic concepts; the British one as a gradual evolution, ultimately from a system of tribal councils and advisors to the ruler) and function differently to this day. Even in this post you refer to the modern democracy as "American" even though parliamentary democracy is not only both older and the dominant form in most of the world, it's the one the Americans themselves implement in countries where they've encouraged or in some cases actively enforced democratic transitions.

Yet FXS has always made games where history progresses literally as it did in our times, the only difference is that the timing might be different, and the name of the Civ leading the world, might be different. Of course, the world build is different on random maps, and war-outcomes, but it always is tech A before tech B, Civic A before civic B, because for us it happened that way, and therefore it's the only logical conclusion. We started reforesting in the industrial era, so that's how it goes. No, there is evidence that that happened waaaaaay before in the Amazon.

And in the Congo, but not as a planned activity, simply as regrowth following abandonment of settlements in the area. As for technological progression, in modern Civ games the primary driver is the need of game mechanics and the actual tech tree has long since ceased to reflect a reasonable real-world technological progression - Civ V in particular had notorious examples like nuclear submarines without Nuclear Fission, and I think Robotics without Computers.

I want Civs that start out as slave-owners and have not made the morality jump, or do so because other civs in the game do so too (not because a unit gets upgraded). I want Civs that don't know the concept of slave ownership and are completely pacifistic like the Moriori, and carry this on throughout the ages, or learn to fight because other civs dictate them.

I'd just like slavery to be acknowledged as a mechanic and not treated either as a 'Hollywood pharaohs whipping Pyramid builders' production boost or applying the notion that the industrialised slavery of the colonial era and the use of slaves principally for agricultural production in plantations is the same phenomenon as classical slavery. As with 'democracy' the particular American outlook of dominant game and media producers tends to treat often loosely-related phenomena as the same thing, and the American experience means that the lens through which 'slavery' is understood tends to be that of the African slave trade, although in a historical context this is atypical of slavery systems more broadly.

This may be asking for too much, but I've always thought it would really be great if the tech and civic trees were individualized for each player and each game, morphing somewhat based on the path you take and the choices you make. I realize that might be difficult to implement, and yet imagine how much more true to life it would be, not to mention making repeated game plays more enjoyable.

The fact that you get to actively pick and choose which cultural traits you want at specific points in Humankind seems to be a source of dissatisfaction (whether you give them immersion-breaking names or not). A lot of people who've wanted this sort of progression have wanted some way for your civ to 'naturally' adapt to its surroundings.

For instance, settling a specific landscape might open tech options - so that instead of saying "Ah, I'm on the coast. Guess I'll be Phoenician this week", you may not be able to access coastal techs unless you are on the coast - but will be incentivised to do so if you are. You could get rid of the oddity of being able to research iron working without ever seeing any iron. You may need a certain extent of nearby forest - and possibly nearby deep water - to be able to develop Renaissance-era and later ships.

Contact with civs that have other technologies or cultural achievements may increase your access to those - not in terms of tech trading, but possibly you could passively develop knowledge of techs a neighbour has, and the rate of that acquisition could increase with trade or cultural exchange (if there's a system for monitoring relative cultural influence, such as migration). Contact with nearby civs that have similar tech might unlock options for more advanced techs of the same type, and war may increase access to and progress towards military technologies - for example, technologies like gunpowder that were developed elsewhere reached greater sophistication in a European context where there were a larger number of states competing with one another to get an edge than they did in China where that selective pressure didn't exist.

I'd say Endless Legends/Endless Space style heroes is exactly what we're looking at.

Sadly, I suspect this is the case. I don't like hero systems in general, but Amplitude's games revolve so heavily around them that I'd be surprised if they're absent.

Hopefully Amplitude does not perpetuate Firaxis' strange obsession with Sejong's science. Korea became a science powerhouse in the 90s, which is no doubt why Firaxis focused in on Sejong's academies, but I wouldn't say that a focus on science has been characteristic of the bulk of Korea's history. Since Amplitude is clearly not considering themselves bound by Firaxis' traditions, I'm hoping Amplitude will instead focus on Korea's religious and cultural history (Goryeo ware, anyone?).

On the other hand, we've seen that Humankind's Babylon has a science icon, even though Babylon was not at its most notable as a scientific powerhouse. I suspect Civ has such a pervasive influence on players' expectations within this genre that we'll see a lot of the more consistent Civ themes carried over to Humankind.
 
Last edited:
The fact that you get to actively pick and choose which cultural traits you want at specific points in Humankind seems to be a source of dissatisfaction (whether you give them immersion-breaking names or not). A lot of people who've wanted this sort of progression have wanted some way for your civ to 'naturally' adapt to its surroundings.

For instance, settling a specific landscape might open tech options - so that instead of saying "Ah, I'm on the coast. Guess I'll be Phoenician this week", you may not be able to access coastal techs unless you are on the coast - but will be incentivised to do so if you are. You could get rid of the oddity of being able to research iron working without ever seeing any iron. You may need a certain extent of nearby forest - and possibly nearby deep water - to be able to develop Renaissance-era and later ships.

Contact with civs that have other technologies or cultural achievements may increase your access to those - not in terms of tech trading, but possibly you could passively develop knowledge of techs a neighbour has, and the rate of that acquisition could increase with trade or cultural exchange (if there's a system for monitoring relative cultural influence, such as migration). Contact with nearby civs that have similar tech might unlock options for more advanced techs of the same type, and war may increase access to and progress towards military technologies - for example, technologies like gunpowder that were developed elsewhere reached greater sophistication in a European context where there were a larger number of states competing with one another to get an edge than they did in China where that selective pressure didn't exist.
That all makes excellent sense to me. As I said before, however, it might be too much to ask at this point for Civ to make such a big adjustment in how they do things. On the other hand, HK is starting out with a clean slate, almost, so maybe they will adopt a more nuanced approach to tech and civ development.

By the way, in an earlier reply to my post, Boris said something very similar to your comment, suggesting that Eureka moments (or their equivalent) could be made far more valuable but also much harder to achieve — all based on your surroundings and local experiences, terrain, fauna, neighbors, etc.
 
Well, Germany gets U-boat as unique unit, and Egypt has river bonuses and chariots, so I would say it is entirely possible that Korea is science + hwachas.
I mean, Egypt kind of got where it was because it had a nice, stable, predictably-but-not-catastrophically flooding river to depend on, and by the New Kingdom chariots were the bulwark of the Egyptian army. The only other route you can really go with Egypt is the one Civ prior to Civ6 has taken them: wonder-builders. Whereas Korea not only has other options, it has other options that make more sense. But yes, I'm sure its special unit will either be a hwacha or a geobukseon.

On the other hand, we've seen that Humankind's Babylon has a science icon, even though Babylon was not at its most notable as a scientific powerhouse.
Considering Greek science was largely derivative of Babylonian science, I'm okay with Babylon as a science civ, even though there are many other plausible directions to take Babylon. The Babylonians excelled in early astronomy, for instance, and they also excelled at more applied sciences like mathematics and engineering. I'd associate Babylon with science more than I would Korea, outside of the specific reigns of Seondeok and Sejong.
 
I mean, Egypt kind of got where it was because it had a nice, stable, predictably-but-not-catastrophically flooding river to depend on, and by the New Kingdom chariots were the bulwark of the Egyptian army. The only other route you can really go with Egypt is the one Civ prior to Civ6 has taken them: wonder-builders. Whereas Korea not only has other options, it has other options that make more sense. But yes, I'm sure its special unit will either be a hwacha or a geobukseon.

Considering Greek science was largely derivative of Babylonian science, I'm okay with Babylon as a science civ, even though there are many other plausible directions to take Babylon. The Babylonians excelled in early astronomy, for instance, and they also excelled at more applied sciences like mathematics and engineering. I'd associate Babylon with science more than I would Korea, outside of the specific reigns of Seondeok and Sejong.
I can agree that Korea as a science Civ does make sense when you have a leader tied to it such as Sejong and Seondeok. I don't know the route they will go but if Korea becomes medieval I can see it going the cultural route but if it chosen in the Renaissance it very well could be science again. Also the Hwacha is confirmed to be seen in a screenshot I do believe.
One can only help that one of the developers is a fan of K Pop to make a culture based Korea.

Speaking of Greece it's amazing to me how they have never explicitly have had any scientific bonuses in the past. Most of the uniques have been tied around culture and or military/diplomacy.
 
I can agree that Korea as a science Civ does make sense when you have a leader tied to it such as Sejong and Seondeok. I don't know the route they will go but if Korea becomes medieval I can see it going the cultural route but if it chosen in the Renaissance it very well could be science again. Also the Hwacha is confirmed to be seen in a screenshot I do believe.
One can only help that one of the developers is a fan of K Pop to make a culture based Korea.

Speaking of Greece it's amazing to me how they have never explicitly have had any scientific bonuses in the past. Most of the uniques have been tied around culture and or military/diplomacy.

As an aside, how would you design a Scientific Greek UA?

Antikythera Mechanism: Get a free random Eureka or Inspiration for the next era for every 4th, 5th, and 6th Eureka or Inspiration in an era.
 
That all makes excellent sense to me. As I said before, however, it might be too much to ask at this point for Civ to make such a big adjustment in how they do things. On the other hand, HK is starting out with a clean slate, almost, so maybe they will adopt a more nuanced approach to tech and civ development.

By the way, in an earlier reply to my post, Boris said something very similar to your comment, suggesting that Eureka moments (or their equivalent) could be made far more valuable but also much harder to achieve — all based on your surroundings and local experiences, terrain, fauna, neighbors, etc.

I was describing a system that could be implemented from a Civ-type baseline, and indeed I had the idea that this amounted to essentially a different take on eurekas in many cases (an iron mine, for instance, could let you learn Iron Working rather than boost progress towards it) - Humankind could potentially do something more elaborate than "This one-time event lets you develop an entire tech".

The biggest thing I think has been missing from all incarnations of Civ is a migration system, and we so far haven't heard of anything along those lines in Humankind. That would be a way of linking to a whole suite of mechanics, including slavery, political satisfaction and cultural diffusion.

It's always going to be somewhat abstracted: I'm not anticipating anything modelling ocean currents or making a sufficiently fine distinction between the types of surrounding waterbodies to model the fact that - say - England was never an especially notable early to medieval maritime trading, colonial or raiding power like Phoenicians or Vikings, but its position in the North Atlantic made it ideally placed to expand and project power overseas once oceangoing technologies were developed.

Speaking of Greece it's amazing to me how they have never explicitly have had any scientific bonuses in the past. Most of the uniques have been tied around culture and or military/diplomacy.

Arguably - as I'd also argue with Babylon - cultural achievements are the best way to represent Greece, but they'd certainly have a case for being a science civ.
 
They just had a livestreamed PAX panel on narrative events in Humankind.

I took some screenshots I will upload later.

I did learn Celts are a Classical Era civ.

Great People are called Heroes.

They had 4 examples of events. I forgot to screenshot the first one. It took place in the Classical or Medieval Era. You had to have received two Age Stars in the Science category and have a city producing a certain amount of science. A scientist from that city has created a map of the night sky. You can give a copy to your military commanders to increase their sight. Or you can pay the scientist to study more, exchanging X money/turn for Y science/turn in your best science city.

Events are intended to be morally gray. Sometimes you get more Fame for making evil choices.

Events are based on history. They are not gated by specific civs, but by Ages. However, some civs get extra options, like the Celts can choose to establish a caste of Druids in the second example I will show when I post the screenshots.
 
Last edited:
They just had a livestreamed PAX panel on narrative events in Humankind.

I took some screenshots I will upload later.

I did learn Celts are a Classical Era civ.

Great People are called Heroes.

They had 4 examples of events. I forgot to screenshot the first one. It took place in the Classical or Medieval Era. You had to have received two Age Stars in the Science category and have a city producing a certain amount of science. A scientist from that city has created a map of the night sky. You can give a copy to your military commanders to increase their sight. Or you can pay the scientist to study more, exchanging X money/turn for Y science/turn in your best science city.

Events are intended to be morally gray. Sometimes you get more Fame for making evil choices.

Events are based on history. They are not gated by specific civs, but by Ages. However, some civs get extra options, like the Celts can choose to establish a caste of Druids in the second example I will show when I post the screenshots.
Can't wait to see the screens
 
They also have gates based on map type.

One example was based on Chris Columbus. The event will never trigger on Pangea maps.
 
As an aside, how would you design a Scientific Greek UA?

Antikythera Mechanism: Get a free random Eureka or Inspiration for the next era for every 4th, 5th, and 6th Eureka or Inspiration in an era.

Arguably - as I'd also argue with Babylon - cultural achievements are the best way to represent Greece, but they'd certainly have a case for being a science civ.
I'd like to combine both culture and science in a UA because I think the Acropolis is fine as a UD.
I'd call it Plato's Academy and keep the wildcard slot in every govt. Also they would gain a free random Eureka or Inspiration for the next era after a great scientist is used.
Ancient science and philosophy were pretty much intertwined and I think it blends in nicely.
 
They just had a livestreamed PAX panel on narrative events in Humankind.

I took some screenshots I will upload later.

I did learn Celts are a Classical Era civ.

Great People are called Heroes.

They had 4 examples of events. I forgot to screenshot the first one. It took place in the Classical or Medieval Era. You had to have received two Age Stars in the Science category and have a city producing a certain amount of science. A scientist from that city has created a map of the night sky. You can give a copy to your military commanders to increase their sight. Or you can pay the scientist to study more, exchanging X money/turn for Y science/turn in your best science city.

Events are intended to be morally gray. Sometimes you get more Fame for making evil choices.

Events are based on history. They are not gated by specific civs, but by Ages. However, some civs get extra options, like the Celts can choose to establish a caste of Druids in the second example I will show when I post the screenshots.

Do we know if these are randomly-spawning events akin to Civ IV (or Paradox games) or fixed 'story' events that will turn up on every playthrough, similar to the faction events in the Endless games? Given the pedigree I'd guess the latter, but that seems likely to constrain replayability - especially if they don't vary by faction.

I'm still cautiously hopeful, but I have to admit that the more I hear of the game the less confident I am that I'll enjoy its approach. That may simply be preconceptions based on Endless Legend, though, since to a large extent this is coming to sound like a history-themed reskin of that game rather than something that takes full advantage of its source material.
 
Back
Top Bottom