Humankind Game by Amplitude

[Gedemon]

I wouldn't worry about that. If they release the source code, people will be messing around with it for years to come. I expect considerable reluctance from players to move from CIV VI to a new title, perhaps even greater than what there was between V and VI.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't think I would have the motivation to start modding on a platform knowing that the next version of the game will be out before my mod.

I've stopped modding civ5 not long after Firaxis stopped to work on it, knowing the platform was imperfect (no mods in MP for example) and waited for civ6.

Now if they tell us of their development plan and that plan involve perfecting the civ6 engine (which, if the DLL source was released today, is still in some ways worst than ci5 and civ4 for my use ATM), with civ7 being more than 4-5 years away, yes, it's not too late to release the source code.

For Humankind, it's wait&see, they've not said anything about modding yet AFAIK, and their past games seem to be less open to modding than civ4-5-6.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

A recreation of a historic battle

https://twitter.com/humankindgame/status/1217869223747366912?s=19

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

A recreation of a historic battle

https://twitter.com/humankindgame/status/1217869223747366912?s=19

I suspect that the battle is intended to be the Hot Gates (Greek: Thermopolye): Persian Immortals against red-cloaked Spartan Hoplites.
Except - they aren't Hoplites, they are carrying the Late-Republican Roman rectangular shield (scutum) and not the characteristic (dare I say, Iconic) round hoplon.
But at least they got the Spartan red cloaks and the massed Persian archery right: I'll cut 'em a break on the shields.
(Although it makes me wonder if they are including Roman Legion as a unit and it's the only 'classical unit' graphic they had handy that had red cloaks . . .)

Also, since 'Fame' is supposed to be the basis for winning the game, the Battle of Thermopolye has to be one of the most fame and Legend-generating battles in history, except that all the Fame applied to the Losers! How do you work that into a competitive game: "Always fight outnumbered, even if you lose you win on Fame Points?"

Or maybe the amount of Fame is based on the post-battle poetry and inscription on the monuments:

"Go and tell the Spartans
Stranger passing by
That here, obedient to their Laws
We lie."
- Simonides' poem on the marker at Thermopolye

"Here, less than sixty opposed a whole army
Its numbers crushed them.
Life, rather than courage
Abandoned these French soldiers
30 April 1863."
- inscription on the plaque at Cameron, Mexico
The Battle that is the Founding Legend of the French Foreign Legion
To this day, any Mexican troops passing the spot are required to render a salute

 

[mmenphis]

A recreation of a historic battle

https://twitter.com/humankindgame/status/1217869223747366912?s=19

The battle directly on gameplay map looks weird for me. I'd rather if battles had their own maps - similar like is in Heroes of Might and Magic serie.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The battle directly on gameplay map looks weird for me. I'd rather if battles had their own maps - similar like is in Heroes of Might and Magic serie.

Or the old Civ/derivative Test of Time, which had a separate Tactical Battle Map.
Unfortunately for those of us who think it would be a Good Idea, Firaxis is more or less committed to putting everything possible onto the game map (Districts, individual buildings, etc) so a separate map for anything else is a Non-Starter in Civ.
Amplitude used this 'tactical on the game map' idea before in Endless Legend, so it's no surprise here. I'm more interested in finding out how well the AI handles it (It was about on the level of Varro or Burnside in EL) and how it handles the 'mechanics' of reinforcements, flankng moves, long-range artillery/air support, etc.

 

[AntSou]

Or the old Civ/derivative Test of Time, which had a separate Tactical Battle Map.
Unfortunately for those of us who think it would be a Good Idea, Firaxis is more or less committed to putting everything possible onto the game map (Districts, individual buildings, etc) so a separate map for anything else is a Non-Starter in Civ.
Amplitude used this 'tactical on the game map' idea before in Endless Legend, so it's no surprise here. I'm more interested in finding out how well the AI handles it (It was about on the level of Varro or Burnside in EL) and how it handles the 'mechanics' of reinforcements, flankng moves, long-range artillery/air support, etc.

I think Amplitude's system should make it easier on the AI, given how every battle is self-contained. (Assuming it works like in EL)

 

[Krajzen]

Is there somewhere a list of confirmed factons in the game?

From what I recall, confirmed (as in, mentioned as being in game) are

ANCIENT
Olmec, Nubia, Egypt, Mycene, Hittites, Assyria, Babylon, Harappa, Zhou, Pheonicia

Khmer, Ming, China, Vikings?

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

1. Khmer might be anywhere from Ancient to Medieval (around 12th or 13th Century where they apparently founded Lavodayapura and allegedy what's now Suphan Buri) and they apparently had successors North of Mekhong and West in Menam basin. But what about the rest of Mekhong civilization cradles? what races shall they pick? between Tai-Laotian speakers which choices did they prefer?, Tais? or Laos? (or both people were actually one and same but spawned several different Kingdoms south of Yunnan Provinces, where some group went southeast and founded what's now Laos, the other went directly south and founded either Lanna or Sukhothai.. Personally i'd put that Ayutthaya was originally Khmer city or at least the ruling classes were of old Khmers as much of Classical Khmers still survive in modern Thai Royal Court Vocabularies,)

2. Harrappans can dig long canals, yet eventually someones like Khmers and Siamese (should they be successor race to Khmers? or more a mixed races of Khmers and Laos?) will do.
3. What makes Myceneans different to anyone else? Particularly Greeks?
4. Where's Minoans? Should their UU be 'Minotaurs'?

Did 'Minotaurs' actually Minoan elite warriors or berserkers with big axe and bovine mask/helm and mainland Greeks saw them and panicked?
5. Ming is Renaissance China.
6. Levelling up as Vikings/Norsemen might permit players to sail across a big ocean and found a new city on a different 'new world' early on, and super shock troops named Berserkers with strong attacks but bad defenses.
7. Where's Phoenicians? they're a big seafarers and it is said they came to America before Norsemen do.
8. Did they confirm that Siamese and Burmese will or will not appear ?

 

[_Mooc_]

For those interested, the Endless games are free to play this weekend.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I think Amplitude's system should make it easier on the AI, given how every battle is self-contained. (Assuming it works like in EL)

Until you realize that in a Fantasy game, like Endless Legend, you don't have to deal with long-range indirect fire artillery (which really shouldn't be on the battlefield) and air support, not to mention Operational flanking or rear attacks like those of the Mongols' mounted armies or the German/Soviet/American mechanized forces in World War Two (or Desert Storm in 1991, for that matter). I would think, to properly 'model' the greater variation in historical warfare over the last 6000+ years the basic EL system is going to need some modifications.
But what kind? There's the Rub . . .

 

[AntSou]

Perhaps you can call in artillery or air support with your General, if there's any in range and if your general has points left.

Will be interesting to see how combat changes through the ages, if at all.

 

[Vincent_lacruz]

Perhaps you can call in artillery or air support with your General, if there's any in range and if your general has points left.

Will be interesting to see how combat changes through the ages, if at all.

Or you might just have a siege mechnism, where an unit can "produce" siege weapon over several turns to assault the fortified positions? That is roughly what was done during dark age, where trebuchets were mainly produced on-site from local ressources.

 

[Krajzen]

1. Khmer might be anywhere from Ancient to Medieval

I'm not sure about that, unless by 'Khmer' they put Funan or some archeological cultures, Khmer empire itself is fully in (European) medieval era.

(Mekhong civilization cradles? what races shall they pick?

I don't they will pick aby. It seems ancient era 10 slots are Olmec, Nubia, Egypt, Mycene, Assyria, Babylon, Hittites, Harappa, Zhou and Phoenicia. With 10 slots per age only the most famous civs get in.

3. What makes Myceneans different to anyone else? Particularly Greeks?

They are very well documented, advanced, separate civilization. They are separated from Classical Greece by like 600 years, had significantly different language (though still classified as Greek), completely different writing system, and a lot of differences. Really the only choice for recognizable bronze age European civ
is them or Minoa.

4. Where's Minoans? Should their UU be 'Minotaurs'?

If Mycene get here, I'm pretty sure Minoans don't.

5. Ming is Renaissance China.

Not necessarily - Ming started in 1368
so they'd qualify as medieval civ, of course if we want to use European terminology. Also, in this 'medieval' first half Ming was flourishing, while in 16th century it started to rot. On another hand devs could use Zheng He's voyages as basis for renaissance era vision of colonial China, which would be amazing.

Really it's up to devs if they choose Ming to be Med or Ren.

6. Levelling up as Vikings/Norsemen might permit players to sail across a big ocean and found a new city on a different 'new world' early on, and super shock troops named Berserkers with strong attacks but bad defenses.

Honestly, at this point I'd love to see any Viking unit other than overused berserker. Also, that trick with different continent city never ever worked in civ (it was always trash ability) so...

7. Where's Phoenicians? they're a big seafarers and it is said they came to America before Norsemen do.

Phoenicians were mentioned by devs IIRC, I'm pretty sure they will be ancient era, if we measure classical era by 500BC then they fall entirely out of it.

Anyway, half of the world claims discovering America before Columbus - no proof at all besides Vikings.

8. Did they confirm that Siamese and Burmese will or will not appear ?

No. I think if they appear then in renaissance.

 

[Catoninetales_Amplitude]

I suspect that the battle is intended to be the Hot Gates (Greek: Thermopolye): Persian Immortals against red-cloaked Spartan Hoplites.
Except - they aren't Hoplites, they are carrying the Late-Republican Roman rectangular shield (scutum) and not the characteristic (dare I say, Iconic) round hoplon.
But at least they got the Spartan red cloaks and the massed Persian archery right: I'll cut 'em a break on the shields.
(Although it makes me wonder if they are including Roman Legion as a unit and it's the only 'classical unit' graphic they had handy that had red cloaks . . .)

They are Romans because we wanted them to be Romans instead of Greek. After all, the tweet does say that it has a bit of a twist.
I'm afraid to disappoint you, though: While we're aware of the Persian massed archery, the units in the Persian back rows in this screenshot are not archers, but swordsmen. (Mostly because the screenshot looked better that way, but also to show melee units of different types and cultures in one screenshot.)


On the note of more modern developments in warfare like long range artillery, air support, operational flanking, etc. I am not yet at liberty to say more than: We have plans.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Here's a behind the scenes look at the making of yesterday's screenshot. Go go Civfanatics CSI

https://twitter.com/humankindgame/status/1218179855751307265?s=19

 

[Catoninetales_Amplitude]

Enhance!

I'm looking forward to seeing if all of you can extract any more information out of this, but I will most likely neither confirm nor deny any of your theories.

 

[Jkchart]

Enhance!

I'm looking forward to seeing if all of you can extract any more information out of this, but I will most likely neither confirm nor deny any of your theories.

It looks like you guys have a camera mode. Oooh

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Is there somewhere a list of confirmed factons in the game?

From what I recall, confirmed (as in, mentioned as being in game) are

ANCIENT
Olmec, Nubia, Egypt, Mycene, Hittites, Assyria, Babylon, Harappa, Zhou, Pheonicia

Khmer, Ming, China, Vikings?

I remember somebody saying the Libyans were going to be a Bronze Age Civ while Phoenicia would be in the next era.

Edit: Eagle Pursuit said it on page 25 of this thread.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I remember somebody saying the Libyans were going to be a Bronze Age Civ while Phoenicia would be in the next era.

Edit: Eagle Pursuit said it on page 25 of this thread.

That was based on a magazine article, so grain of salt and all that jazz.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Here's a behind the scenes look at the making of yesterday's screenshot. Go go Civfanatics CSI

https://twitter.com/humankindgame/status/1218179855751307265?s=19

Umm, let's see ...

Citrus fruit in background plus ergonomic keyboard suggests healthy work environment. Headphones not in use, therefore office noise level isn't distracting. Facial tissues within easy reach demonstrates concern about spread of communicable diseases.

Spoon in coffee mug, however, suggests addition of sugars and/or fats that may be less than ideal. And single use plastic water bottle suggests below ideal environmental awareness.

Phone situated between employee and monitor suggests they may be at beck-and-call of management at any time … or they're following their personal twitter feed on company time.

American flag decoration in pen holder for a French company suggests a pan-global world view.

Notepad to right is beyond illegible, suggesting digital alteration before the photo was posted. Therefore good quality control.

Now as to the gameplay hints … yeah, I got nothing.