Humankind Game by Amplitude

[Siptah]

Even more the people of Contemporary Era should dislike when their country declare war and/or ocupate foreing territory. The way to assert your control on this era should be throught proxies/puppet states, spy actions, ideologies, economic power like coorporations, and of course the threat of your nuclear/militar power.

Really depends when Contemporary Era starts. In the first half of the 20th century, there are quite enough examples of population rejoicing to annexations by their country. And even later, you'll find examples, from Tibet and Palestine to the Krim - maybe make it dependend on the form of government instead of era.

So would be great to have many upgrades by era on the last three and real "science research race" on the last one.

I would prefer all eras to feel really fleshed out and spend a lot of time in, not just the last one. I dislike when you rush through developments, like it often happens in civ VI. Rather less upgrades to units, but make them really matter. What use is a unit if it is outdated 20 turns later?
There's a tight balance here. As Hannibal Barca put it: Too much is too much, but way too much is just right. So either use a limited pool in which upgrades matter and keep one unit (or weapon if they go with the EL/AC approach) per era or really steady changes every few turns. The worst would be the middle ground. So I really hope they stay with a slow upgrade circle, and the tech tree that've seen so far seem to point to that. It also makes EUs matter much more.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I think we should think of Eras as being the temporal equivalent of HK's pre-defined regions. An artifice, yes, but one that has the potential to augment game play.

There's a reason historians like to break history up into "eras" - it augments story telling. Breaking a stream of "one more turns" up into distinct starting and ending points where new things happen in the game could similarly help keep game play fresh. I miss the lack of "big changes" in Civ 6's game play as the eras progress. I'd like to see the Industrial Era play noticeably differently than the Early Modern era, and I'll accept artificial start and end dates for each era if HK can deliver those changes in game play.

Okay, I will modify my Anti-Era statement: IF the Eras are unique to each Faction/Country, they approach reality: most of the world did not go through the Classical Era or any Industrialization at the same time, and most didn't go through a Medieval or Renaissance at all. So Humankind's approach, which appears to be that each Faction travels through the Eras at its own pace, is much, much closer to what I'd like to see than the LockStep of Civ's Eras.

Then the question becomes, for both me and thee, just how different is each Era in Humankind in regards to Game Play? IF the Classical plays very differently than the Early Modern, then I'm comfortable with that - especially if my Greeks are in a Classical situation and set of parameters while, say, them Egyptians over there are still thinking and acting according to an Ancient set of 'rules'.

As usual, the Devil is in the Details.

 

[Catoninetales_Amplitude]

I will say it again as I've said before, I don't like the 'Era' system in general, because the Eras all reek of artificiality and start and end dates are so flexible that they can mean anything you want for Game Play - which to me makes them a strictly Game Mechanic abstraction so you can name them anything you want: might as well go back and name them after the Greek Mythological Aes: Golden, Silver, Bronze, Heroic and Iron . . .

However, having gotten that off my so-far-virus-free chest, Humankind seems to be built around the Eras as definers and identifiers of the cultures/Factions you are going to be playing, so we're stuck with all the problems of finding periods f time for the Eras that roughly match what we want to do in the game - and the (very rough) way we want to 'divide' the Factions. I suspect that this is going to result in a lot of discussions once all the Factions are revealed, because it's hard to find man Factions/Culture/Nations that changed dramatically all at the same time for a convenient Era Divider. I predct there will be a lot of Factions that actually span more than one Era or straddle an Era in Real Historical Life, but will be redefined In Game to 'fit' into a single Era.

As you mention in your later post, the eras do not advance uniformly across the entire game world, but rather individually. (The dates seen on the tech tree poster are just rough reference points for the devs and are never used in game. In fact, I don't think we ever show a date.) Era advancement is also not tied to technological progress.

Regarding the snowballing issue, I think that with proper balancing the Fame and Era Stars system can help with this, but you'll have to wait for those Juicy Details.

I can't tell you how much the gameplay changes over the Eras, though, as I haven't had time to sit down and play a long session in some time, so I am not completely up to speed on the content and balancing.

 

[Siptah]

In fact, I don't think we ever show a date. Era advancement is also not tied to technological progress.

Two very interesting informations here. And I'm glad for both of them.
I just wonder what other options you have for era progressions despite tech (your own or global) or turn number. I think it was said that not everyone settles down on the same turn, or do I remember that wrong?

 

[Catoninetales_Amplitude]

Not everybody settles on the same turn, no. Also, Era Progression is tied to Era Stars, but you'll have to wait for The Details on that one.

While you wait, feel free to try out Endless Legend for free this week to take a peek at our previous terrestrial game. (Yes, shameless self-advertisement. I hope nobody minds.)

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Not everybody settles on the same turn, no. Also, Era Progression is tied to Era Stars, but you'll have to wait for The Details on that one.

Which, presumably, means that your 'Era Progression' can be very different depending on what kind, how fast, and how many Stars you accumulate?
Speculating here, but given the Amplitude emphasis on a 'basic set' of outputs and 'currencies', like Production, Science, Food, Gold Influence/Fame, may I bet that the 'Era Stars' are related to those in some way. Therefore, if I'm playing, say, a Farmer Faction I am likely to gain 'Food' Stars faster than a Militarist (unless he can use his military to pillage/loot/steal/requisition Food?) while a Trading Faction may gather Gold Stars faster.
That, I would assume, means that even with the same map and settings, each Era can potentially play differently based on Who you are playing as and what your emphasis in Fame accumuation is?

Exciting prospects for replayability, and even a potential 'Steam Achievement' of How Many Times can you play the same map and settings or how many different sets of Fame Stars can you accumulate from the same map!

While you wait, feel free to try out Endless Legend for free this week to take a peek at our previous terrestrial game. (Yes, shameless self-advertisement. I hope nobody minds.)

Piling on here, but if you haven't tried it, Endless Legend shows just how different from the familiar Civ mechanics a 4X 'planet-based' game can be without throwing in changes just for the sake of being different. Given what they've revealed so far, Humankind's systems of regions/territories, city Quarters (to some extent) and 'expanded tactical battlefields' are all based in mechanics already in Endless Legend, so this would be a good chance to get familiar with them for free.

 

[mitsho]

Not everybody settles on the same turn, no. Also, Era Progression is tied to Era Stars, but you'll have to wait for The Details on that one.

Different Eras for different players, makes sense. Now I'm wondering though how you will name the turns. I presume after years. So will you keep the BC/AD "real world" timeline, which is still very western. I always wanted civ-appropriate calendars, but that isn't an option in Humankind as well.Just curious, so what will the starting year be?

While you wait, feel free to try out Endless Legend for free this week to take a peek at our previous terrestrial game. (Yes, shameless self-advertisement. I hope nobody minds.)

convinced.

 

[CivLuvah]

Imgur album updated to include Mauryans (the extra characters were quite the hassle to copy-paste)

https://imgur.com/a/4cPjGSY

 

[Catoninetales_Amplitude]

Different Eras for different players, makes sense. Now I'm wondering though how you will name the turns. I presume after years. So will you keep the BC/AD "real world" timeline, which is still very western. I always wanted civ-appropriate calendars, but that isn't an option in Humankind as well.Just curious, so what will the starting year be?

We don't. That's what I was getting at. So far, it only shows a turn number, and dates are never mentioned anywhere in the game interface, and I don't think we have plans to change that. I may be wrong about that, though.

 

[mitsho]

We don't. That's what I was getting at. So far, it only shows a turn number, and dates are never mentioned anywhere in the game interface, and I don't think we have plans to change that. I may be wrong about that, though.

Upps, I should read better... Thanks for the patience and the clarification

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

We don't. That's what I was getting at. So far, it only shows a turn number, and dates are never mentioned anywhere in the game interface, and I don't think we have plans to change that. I may be wrong about that, though.

Given the number of different dating systems used in various cultures and parts of the world until very recent times, has any thought been given to providing the gamer with the option of using a 'regional variant' Dating System?
One of my favorite things in Civ V was the fact that the Mayan Civilization had all their dates in a Long Count format instead of BCE/CE or BC/AD. I thought that was immensely flavorful and could be expanded to the majority of civs/Factions before the last Eras of the game.

 

[FinalDoomsday]

I'd really avoid the civ 6 design choice of wanting to decrease the amount of warfare the further you go into the game as it just makes the game anti-climatic. Now Alliances and power blocs? Go for that and really try and encourage world wars in the late game. Endless Space 2 did this pretty well with an event that forced everyone to pick a side and fight and really felt like a finale for your game.

 

[Siptah]

So, feature video today? Tomorrow? Next week?

 

[aguaacrobata2]

Given the number of different dating systems used in various cultures and parts of the world until very recent times, has any thought been given to providing the gamer with the option of using a 'regional variant' Dating System?
One of my favorite things in Civ V was the fact that the Mayan Civilization had all their dates in a Long Count format instead of BCE/CE or BC/AD. I thought that was immensely flavorful and could be expanded to the majority of civs/Factions before the last Eras of the game.

I totally agree on that. A cool feature would be that when a culture creates a religion it restarts its year count to 0 (and if other culture adopts this religion it would adjust its year count), and therefore different cultures could have different dating systems.

 

[Elhoim]

So, feature video today? Tomorrow? Next week?

They seem to be every 3 weeks. Today we got a screenshot.

 

[Krajzen]

I'd really avoid the civ 6 design choice of wanting to decrease the amount of warfare the further you go into the game as it just makes the game anti-climatic. Now Alliances and power blocs? Go for that and really try and encourage world wars in the late game. Endless Space 2 did this pretty well with an event that forced everyone to pick a side and fight and really felt like a finale for your game.

This idea has always seemed goddamn stupid to me.
First, it makes no historical sense at all - the only long period of peace which maybe can be tied to "inevitable" progress is
a) Last 70 years, after ww2
b) Between highly developed countries, when any potential war has become too mindbogglingly complicated, expensive and unpopular.

Otherwise, you are not going to convince me that ancient world was murderous free for all while 20th century was spectacularly peaceful
Ah yes, the horror of living in peaceful ancient Egypt or during Pax Romana - unlike wonderful existence in Europe in years 1914 - 1945, in China 1911 - 1960, in Afghanistan 1979 - 2020, in Indochina in the second half of 20th century, in Kashmir, Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Sudan, Somalia, Ethiopia, Central Africa, Angola, Mozambique...
To be honest I do think there is a great decline in violence across ages, but not in a way translatable to geopolitical scale of Civ games.

Secondly, it makes for a terribly anticlimactic gameplay. Instead of finał escalation towards grand ideological world wars like IRL, or danger of nuclear confrontation like IRL, or proxy wars like IRL, or resource wars like IRL... We get boredom until inevitable victory.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

https://twitter.com/Writing_Bull/status/1243566816292675587?s=19

Writing Bull has some kind of Humankind exclusive?

 

[Siptah]

https://twitter.com/Writing_Bull/status/1243566816292675587?s=19

Writing Bull has some kind of Humankind exclusive?

Good news! So we'll learn more about the game soon.

Writing Bull regularly visits European developers and often has them as guests on his stream. If this turns out to contain exclusive info, I'll watch it (probably on Monday) and report here.
I would guess that the guest in this case might actually be @Catoninetales_Amplitude. I would also guess that his presentation is available in English simultaneously or a day later.

 

[Catoninetales_Amplitude]

The only "exclusivity" here is that I'll be speaking German rather than English. It's all based on the two Feature Focus videos and our twitter teasers and culture reveals.
If any questions come up that I can answer but you have not asked yet (which seems rather unlikely) I'll take notes and let you know as well.

 

[Siptah]

So I was able to catch the VoD of yesterday's stream in German and there are a few new infos - or at least infos that I did not realize yet. There's also one or two new screenshots I think.

Thanks @Catoninetales_Amplitude!

Screenshot showcasing different elevations, and showing unit designs we haven't seen before (Goths against Greeks?).

Spoiler :

Screenshot showing the same terrain with different biomes (tundra or taiga on the left and savannah on the right)

Spoiler :

Information:

• there are no seasons
• climate change/terra forming/future era are on the dev's minds but cannot be promised for release
• rivers moderate movement and can give a bonus to resources/trade (memory is fuzzy here what exactly was said)
• the specific quarters interact with the environment, so a production focused quarter is better built on a tile surrounded by rocks than by grassland. Some quarters (the word "temple-like" was uttered as well) interact with surrounding quarters
• you advance to the next era with (7?) era stars. Those seem to be things that you need to accomplish in the game.
• Food, science and industry/production confirmed as resources.
• no Dust resource
• approval or something similar with a different name will be in as well
• wonders are not unlocked by tech. Instead by other actions in game. If you unlock a wonder, no one else can build it. So the wonder race seems to be for the unlocking, not the actual building.
• Mount Everest natural wonder confirmed
• controlling natural wonders gives you fame
• natural wonders only appear in the associated biome
• the culture "gauls" was named a few times, for whatever reason...
• no workers or builder as it seems: resource extractors are built with city production and then placed on the map where they are automatically connected with roads.
• game is confirmed for PC, could not be confirmed for Mac or Linux (but it was announced for mac, right? Otherwise I would have probably ignored it)
• Writing Bull originally planned to visit Amplitude "in a few days" to play an early build, but this was canceled due to the current situation. However, he said that it won't be "an eternity" anymore until the first preview let's play on his channel and that catoninetails will visit again in the near future.