Humankind Game by Amplitude

[Catoninetales_Amplitude]

Some of the ture start location map mods in teh workshop have solved this issue by cutting off the polar regions of the map. This would mean less tundra area and ice, but would still allow icy areas in places such as greenland.

That may create less tundra and ice, but it does not solve the issue of the map being distorted, especially concerning "horizontal" distances. Travelling 10° of longitude along the equator is a much longer trip than it is at 70° northern latitude.
In the end, this means that we (and likely many other games like this) focus on creating a somewhat believable 2D map that creates an enjoyable game pace rather than trying to project a globe into the flat plane and get the proportions of different areas just right. Unfortunately, "enjoyable game pace" is not a quantifiable measurement, so I cannot tell you whether or not the majority of players would find the maps in Humankind enjoyable to play on.

 

[Gedemon]

Is it too soon to speak of map making/modding tools?

A worldbuilder? Access to maps scripts to create our own ("Continents" , "Terra" , etc...) ?

 

[Catoninetales_Amplitude]

Is it too soon to speak of map making/modding tools?

A worldbuilder? Access to maps scripts to create our own ("Continents" , "Terra" , etc...) ?

Sadly, at the moment those conversations are pretty much restricted to:
"Will there be modding?" - "Ideally, yes."

I can't make any promises yet.

 

[FinalDoomsday]

Presumably the areas around the poles will consist of uncolonisable regions maybe you can stick research outposts there later who knows.

The amount of tundra in civ seemed fine but then I like maps that are more cramped, default settings give you too much space so theres fewer reasons for conflict.

 

[Siptah]

Some more pictures from the trailers


Sankoré University?


unidentified Wonder (not a city center)


unidentified Wonder (not a city center)


Hanging Gardens


Viking UU (?) In-game and from the cinematic trailer


Viking city (?)

We need a thread in which we keep track of which wonders were already seen...

 

[Lord Xavius]

View attachment 545951
unidentified Wonder (not a city center)

Almost certainly the Tōdai-ji temple in Nara, Japan.

(Which is also the Japanese wonder in Age of Kings.)

 

[Eddie Verdde]

I am afraid that just like Civilization and pretty much every other game that uses a flat map to represent a global scale, we are bound by the facts of mathematics and map projections, making it impossible to maintain distances, angles, and areas simultaneously.
In other words: 10 tiles worth of map height near the poles will be the same area as 10 tiles worth of map height near the equator, so there will probably be "too much" polar region.

@Catoninetales,

Thanks for the reply.

I'm used to flat maps, no problem with that, but I suppose the tundra area can be artificially reduced by just making it start on higher latitudes than in real life, to compensate for the flatness of the map. Otherwise, we'll end up with a lot of useless surface because no one settles in tundra and nothing much happens there, really.

Anyway, bigger maps is good news, indeed.

The amount of tundra in civ seemed fine but then I like maps that are more cramped, default settings give you too much space so theres fewer reasons for conflict.

This is also true, but as Catoninetales said, in Humankind we'll be using a regions system, so the management of the territory and disputes over land could get very different from Civ.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

@Catoninetales,

Thanks for the reply.

I'm used to flat maps, no problem with that, but I suppose the tundra area can be artificially reduced by just making it start on higher latitudes than in real life, to compensate for the flatness of the map. Otherwise, we'll end up with a lot of useless surface because no one settles in tundra and nothing much happens there, really.

Anyway, bigger maps is good news, indeed.




This is also true, but as Catoninetales said, in Humankind we'll be using a regions system, so the management of the territory and disputes over land could get very different from Civ.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I as I remember in Endless Legend, which also used a 'Region' system, you could set the size of the Regions. Setting large sized Regions automatically would 'compress' the map, bringing your settlements into conflict with your opponents more quickly, whereas on a Large Map with small Regions everybody had more 'room'.

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Subforum created for this game.

 

[Eddie Verdde]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I as I remember in Endless Legend, which also used a 'Region' system, you could set the size of the Regions. Setting large sized Regions automatically would 'compress' the map, bringing your settlements into conflict with your opponents more quickly, whereas on a Large Map with small Regions everybody had more 'room'.

I don't know, I never played Endless Legend.

What I used to do in Civ to avoid too much "room" while playing in huge maps was just setting the Sea Level to "High". Less land, more competition.

 

[jddods]

I don't know, I never played Endless Legend..

Started playing EL last month in prep for Humankind. Enjoying it, I'm normally an exclusive Civ player but this one has caught me, although I'm not big on Fantasy.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Started playing EL last month in prep for Humankind. Enjoying it, I'm normally an exclusive Civ player but this one has caught me, although I'm not big on Fantasy.

Yeah, I picked up EL as soon as I heard about Humankind last fall, when the Amplitude games were on sale on Steam. I strongly suspect that a lot of the Legend features will be carried over to Humankind, but it's intriguing to speculate on what they are changing: for starters, it appears that they are using a more conventional Tech Tree than EL's Tech Bush in which within the Era you could research in any sequence.
I would also be surprised if they keep the ability to 'customize' historical units with weapons, armor, and 'talismans' the way EL allowed. Although I would love to see such a system in a historical game, it would require too many 'set' units to recreate the historical Unique Units and unless done very carefully, that kind of system degenerates into Fantasy Units too easily.

 

[Wyvern_Parade]

I believe they have already confirmed that the unit customization will not be as granular as in Endless Legend. That's a huge plus for me because not only does it not translate well to the scale of this kind of historical game, but it also was extremely tedious and makes unit balance a lot more difficult than it needs to be.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I believe they have already confirmed that the unit customization will not be as granular as in Endless Legend. That's a huge plus for me because not only does it not translate well to the scale of this kind of historical game, but it also was extremely tedious and makes unit balance a lot more difficult than it needs to be.

Quite agree: historical 'unit customization' is a potential tar pit. On the other hand, I remember fondly the old workshop system in SMAC where you started with a 'platform' - Infantry, Vehicle, Flier, Boat - and added weapons and armor and gadgetry to suit as technology allowed. It worked in the context of a Science Fiction setting: in the historical context, you and your Greek Civ may or may not ever get to play with Hoplites unless "Spearman with bronze helmet, cuirass and greave round wooden shield covered in bronze and Civic that requires everyone who can afford it to show up with shield, helmet and spear" is a 'pre-set' unit.
Unfortunately, 99.9% of gamers wouldn't even know the components of most of the historical Units, and so would, ultimately, be disappointed in their game.

 

[Catoninetales_Amplitude]

I'm used to flat maps, no problem with that, but I suppose the tundra area can be artificially reduced by just making it start on higher latitudes than in real life, to compensate for the flatness of the map. Otherwise, we'll end up with a lot of useless surface because no one settles in tundra and nothing much happens there, really.

I'd encourage you to not transfer too many of your expectations of terrain from Civilization to Humankind. You'll see what I mean when we release the next dev diary, I hope.

 

[Eddie Verdde]

I'd encourage you to not transfer too many of your expectations of terrain from Civilization to Humankind. You'll see what I mean when we release the next dev diary, I hope.

I must say that terrain per se is not among my biggest concerns. I only customise terrain, map-size and climate in Civ to get a more interesting gameplay (a means to an end). So, I think that more important than the proportion of tundra or the characteristics of the terrain, is the overall mechanics of the gameplay and how it interacts with the terrain or the map.

But I'll eagerly wait for the next dev diary to know more about it.

 

[WillowBrook]

Has anyone compiled all the information we know for sure (or pretty sure) in one convenient place? I'm considering starting a thread for that (and then updating my initial post as more info comes to light), but I don't want to duplicate work.

 

[Hawke9]

If the dev diaries are released every week, we could expect one tonight. Anyone know what time the last one was uploaded? I thougth in about an hour from now.

 

[Catoninetales_Amplitude]

I can tell you that there will not be a new dev diary tonight, so don't hold your breath.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

*sweeps the dust bunnies and cobwebs out of the Other Civ-Related Games sub-forum*

Huh. This thread didn't even get assigned to "Other Games" like Total War and Alpha Centauri? It got pushed down into a sub-forum of that

Moderator Action: If you have an issue concerning moderation, this is not the place to discuss it. You can start a conversation with me. This is inappropriate for this thread. leif
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