Humankind Game by Amplitude

[FinalDoomsday]

Yeah a little dissapointed Han is not in. When the main ethnic group in China still refers to themselves as 'Han Chinese' surely thats a dynasty that earned more than a few Fame points!

 

[pokiehl]

So the Huns and no Han. I wonder who that picture of the dudes playing Go represents? Maybe Silla, or could Qin be in? They did say that they like including short-lived but influential empires.

I believe CatoNineTails has clarified on Reddit that the picture you're referring to was scrapped.

 

[CivLuvah]

Imgur album updated to include the Huns:

https://imgur.com/a/4cPjGSY

Yeah, I'm also disappointed that they didn't show the Han as a representative for China in this era. Probably they're going for the Qin?

 

[Krajzen]

Yeah a little dissapointed Han is not in. When the main ethnic group in China still refers to themselves as 'Han Chinese' surely thats a dynasty that earned more than a few Fame points!

In some interview devs have stated that China is represented by Zhou, Ming and PRC.

I kind of dislike this setup... Han is incredibly important empire and should really be in game, and I vastly prefer Tang and Song over Ming for medieval era (they were far more innovative).
Oh well. I guess 6 incarnations of China and India would be too much for them (though I'd go for it) and the current setup is still way better than civ's singular 'China'.

Besides, there are always expansions and DLCs

 

[FinalDoomsday]

Theres a lot of potential in DLC with era specific civs. We could easily see themed packs filling in gaps.

For now I suppose you could stick to Zhou through classical and then switch to Ming in medieval and then see them through to when PRC shows up. Would make a pretty fun achievement!

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

In some interview devs have stated that China is represented by Zhou, Ming and PRC.

I kind of dislike this setup... Han is incredibly important empire and should really be in game, and I vastly prefer Tang and Song over Ming for medieval era (they were far more innovative).
Oh well. I guess 6 incarnations of China and India would be too much for them (though I'd go for it) and the current setup is still way better than civ's singular 'China'.

Besides, there are always expansions and DLCs

Sigh. Agree completely that Han, Song and Tang would have been preferred over Zhou and Ming, but short of winning the MegaLotto and starting your own game company, what are ya gonna do?

In fairness, though, the Chinese are the one 'Civilization' that could have a legitimate Faction in every Era from the Classical on (Ancient Era 'Chinese' Dynasties are much too Mythical) with a very strong and real connection between each of them.

As stated, there's always Expansions and DLCs. I'd go further and say that with the Humankind 'progressive Faction' system the Chinese are a strong candidate for an early DLC Labeled "China Through the Ages" that includes the 'missing' Chinese Dynasties, and also a selection of Chinese Enemies. They've just announced the Huns for Classical, so the Xiong-Nu for Ancient would be almost a No Brainer, and it looks like the Mongols are going to be in the game, so an Enemies part would be half-way done already!

NOTE: There's a brand new book out on the Xiong-Nu which I just got yesterday - looks good, with a bibliography full of Chinese and Mongolian archeological and historical references and a map of cities and a Leader/King List, so it looks like it might turn into a Ready Reference for creating them as a Faction (or a Civ in That Other Game)

 

[j51]

I'm guessing Ming are more likely to be Early Modern. Frankly I would have preferred Zhou, Han, and then Qing and Modern China. The Middle and Early Modern eras are so crowded with cultures that it makes the most sense to skip the Chinese in those. (Although the Tang are the dynasty I find the most interesting.)

 

[Siptah]

I agree with @j51 that Ming are more likely to appear in the Early Modern era. And I agree with everyone else that it is likely that more Chinese cultures will be added later on. 10 civs per era isn‘t much and I‘m glad that Amplitude chose to limit the amount of Chinese cultures to 3. I hope this is true for others as well and we don‘t see 5 „Frances, 4 „Germanies,“ and 5 „Indias.“

 

[BuchiTaton]

What I would like for Far East Asia:

- CHINA: Zhou (Ancient) > Xiongnu (Classical) > Tufan (Medieval) > Manchu (Early Modern) > **** (Industrial) > PRC (Contemporary)
- FAR EAST: **** (Ancient) > **** (Classical) > Mongolia (Medieval) > Joseon (Early Modern) > Japan (Industrial) > Vietnam (Contemporary)

The idea is to have proper chinese cultures (Zhou and PRC) but still have the most of other historical cultures from the area of modern China. Anyway Han and Tang are realy important dynasties with potential of great units.

I use the name Tufan for Tibetan Empire to reduce suspicions. Of course Jurchen/Manchus end being Qing. Joseon instead of Korea is to let open the chance of future representation for modern Korea. Vietnam is on Far East instead of South East Asia, because Vietnam is way more cultural influenced by China that any country from that region.

- INDIA: Harappa (Ancient) > Maurya (Classical) > Chola (Medieval) > Mughal (Early Modern) > **** (Industrial) > India (Contemporary)
- SOUTH EAST ASIA: **** (Ancient) > **** (Classical) > Khmer (Medieval) > Burma (Early Modern) > Siam (Industrial) > Indonesia (Contemporary)

Would like to have Majapahit but Khmer have priority and modern Indonesia could still represent that region.

Now like you can see neither India or China have Industrial representatives, this represent how Industrial era was the only period when this historical titans were eclipsed by europeans, at the same time more slots are open for european cultures from Industrial era.

 

[Krajzen]

In fairness, though, the Chinese are the one 'Civilization' that could have a legitimate Faction in every Era from the Classical on (Ancient Era 'Chinese' Dynasties are much too Mythical) with a very strong and real connection between each of them.

Not just them, Iran is very good case of it too. For example you could make it Elam - Achaemenids/Sasanids - Samanids - Safavids - Qajar - 20th century Iran. Very strong cultural and linguistic continuity, comparable or bigger than China. Achaemenids founded on Elam's cultural fundaments, their example directly followed by Parthia, then by Sassanids who directly referenced Achaemenid Iran, then Islamic era and various ephemeric states who however had distinct Persian identity opposed to Arab assimilated and referenced ancient Iranian states, then Safavids being culturally Iranian state...

Another very good candidate is Korea. Its most ancient era is the weakest link, but later we get Silla - Goryeo - Joseon - Late Joseon - Republic.

India is more difficult case, it is certainly cultural continuity in some way, you could make such line in several ways, for example
Vedic civilization or Harappa - Maurya - Gupta - Mughals or Vijayanagara if you don't wanna Islamic empire - Maratha - India. But arguably it is more complicated connection.

Germany, France and England could sort of work, but only if you accept quite controversial and sketchy transition from Roman era peoples to post-Roman kingdoms domnated by other barbarian groups. Such as:
Celts/Gauls - Franks - Kingdom of France - Ancien Regime - Napoleonic France - Republic of France
Germania - Franks - Holy Roman Empire - Prussia - German Empire - German Federal Republic (I agree, it's problematic at times)
Celts - Anglo-Saxons - Kingdom of England - Great Britain - British Empire - United Kingdom
well, to be honest, this way we could also make
Etruscans - Rome - Kingdom of Italy - Renaissance Italy - Sardinia-Piedmont - modern Italy

Other candidates who come close:
- Nubia. Meroe - Kush - Alodia/Makuria - Funj (Sennar) Sultanate - industrial era hole - Sudan. It could honestly work if not that one hole.
- Ethiopia - it does completely miss "ancient era", otherwise it has a cultural continuity for over 2000 years
- Georgia - same as above, meh ancient era, otherwise 2000 year old continuity of people, and some iteration of their state in every Humankind era.
- Mycenae - Greece - Byzantium - early modern hole - Kingdom of Greece - Hellenic Republic

it is really annoying how that complete early modern hole is the only thing preventing us from carrying Greeks through all eras...

 

[SagarRathore]

Not just them, Iran is very good case of it too. For example you could make it Elam - Achaemenids/Sasanids - Samanids - Safavids - Qajar - 20th century Iran. Very strong cultural and linguistic continuity, comparable or bigger than China. Achaemenids founded on Elam's cultural fundaments, their example directly followed by Parthia, then by Sassanids who directly referenced Achaemenid Iran, then Islamic era and various ephemeric states who however had distinct Persian identity opposed to Arab assimilated and referenced ancient Iranian states, then Safavids being culturally Iranian state...

Another very good candidate is Korea. Its most ancient era is the weakest link, but later we get Silla - Goryeo - Joseon - Late Joseon - Republic.

India is more difficult case, it is certainly cultural continuity in some way, you could make such line in several ways, for example
Vedic civilization or Harappa - Maurya - Gupta - Mughals or Vijayanagara if you don't wanna Islamic empire - Maratha - India. But arguably it is more complicated connection.

Germany, France and England could sort of work, but only if you accept quite controversial and sketchy transition from Roman era peoples to post-Roman kingdoms domnated by other barbarian groups. Such as:
Celts/Gauls - Franks - Kingdom of France - Ancien Regime - Napoleonic France - Republic of France
Germania - Franks - Holy Roman Empire - Prussia - German Empire - German Federal Republic (I agree, it's problematic at times)
Celts - Anglo-Saxons - Kingdom of England - Great Britain - British Empire - United Kingdom
well, to be honest, this way we could also make
Etruscans - Rome - Kingdom of Italy - Renaissance Italy - Sardinia-Piedmont - modern Italy

Other candidates who come close:
- Nubia. Meroe - Kush - Alodia/Makuria - Funj (Sennar) Sultanate - industrial era hole - Sudan. It could honestly work if not that one hole.
- Ethiopia - it does completely miss "ancient era", otherwise it has a cultural continuity for over 2000 years
- Georgia - same as above, meh ancient era, otherwise 2000 year old continuity of people, and some iteration of their state in every Humankind era.
- Mycenae - Greece - Byzantium - early modern hole - Kingdom of Greece - Hellenic Republic

it is really annoying how that complete early modern hole is the only thing preventing us from carrying Greeks through all eras...

Interesting observations,though I see great parallel between India and China in terms of history both have origin in river bed region comparatively northern location..one at Yellow river and other at Indus-Ganga region.. and there is somewhat similarity in both stories
India-Vedic Period dominated by Puru dynasty
China-Shang or Zhou dynasty
India-(tyrant )Nanda empire unify significant part of India 500-300 BCE
China-(tyrant) Qin dynasty unify significant. part of China 220 BCE
India-Maurya unify all of(most of) undivided India 300 B.C.E..administrative,transport reforms
China-Han dynasty unify China similar reforms 200 B.C.E
India-Time to go aesthete Gupta Empire,Golden age of India 400-500 C.E
China- Tang dynasty Golden age of China 700-800 C.E
Till this India was leading now China take lead
People from Central part/Northern part of continent got OP
China-Damn Liao/Jin/..nd now Yuan 900-1360
India-Damn Ghurids/Turko-Afghan..nd they r already persianised ,cant play culture card to assimilate them 1200-1500
China-Ming dynasty..I will handle my own affairs get away nomads 1400-1600
India-Vijaynagar,Rajput(Sisodia) we tried our best to be ur Ming India but please wait for Maratha now 1500
China- Qing (Manchurians) ok Hans let me rule now 1700-1900
India-(Turko_Mongol) Mughals good place to build an empire 1550-1700

India-Maratha ok enough it's over Mughal(1700-1800) little difference in sequence
India-Surprise Surprise u get bonus British r here(1850-1947)
China-British Well we r also here but since we already have India just give me Hong Kong
India-Modern Republic of India 1947
China-Modern P.R.China 1949

 

[j51]

I think for France they're using dynasty names - like China. It looks like they'll have Capetians (Also you can say the Capetians carry over into the Early Modern because the Valois and hence the Bourbons are cadet-branches of the Capetians.) in the Middle ages, and then I'd guess France (republic/empire) in the Industrial for the base game.

A full French chain on that model would look like this:

nothing - Celts - Franks/Capetians - Valois/Bourbons - French (empire) - French (republic or just have it be a holdover from Industrial)

 

[j51]

For Germany it looks like they're going with the Teutons (as in Regnum Teutonicorum) in the Middle and Germans in the either the Industrial or Contemporary.

Here's how I'd do a whole German chain:

nothing - Alemanni - Teutons - Austrians - Prussians - Germans

It's fun to do this! I have awhole chart of 'em for around the world (bored at home) I could share, but I don't wanna spam up the works.

 

[Siptah]

For Germany it looks like they're going with the Teutons (as in Regnum Teutonicorum) in the Middle and Germans in the either the Industrial or Contemporary.

Here's how I'd do a whole German chain:

nothing - Alemanni - Teutons - Austrians - Prussians - Germans

It's fun to do this! I have awhole chart of 'em for around the world (bored at home) I could share, but I don't wanna spam up the works.

Austria and Prussia in one line is a bit strange though as both were contemporary great powers for some time, and kind of rivals.

also I still think that the Franks for both Germany and France would have been nice. But Teutons seem very likely due to the card.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

As @Krajzen remarks, there are 'holes' in most of the sequences for 'Cultures'. To me, that is an exciting prospect, because it forces you out of a 'rut' at some point in the game, and almost automatically makes you play 'Alternate History' instead of just following a well-worn path to the end.
- And I am sure once the game is released and all the Factions dissected at length quite a number of 'Perfect Paths' will be promulgated for the various Cultures from Ancient to End of Game.

A perfect example of this is the European nations, all of which have potential 'branches' or 'gaps' at one point or the other in the progression: Greece, Rome/Italy, Germany, France, Britain/England, Spain - you can't really make a singular path for any of them without running into Forks (or Knives!) in the road.

This, I think, is also Exciting: first, because it opens up myriad possibilities for Modded actions to fill in or provide alternatives to trhe Release Factions, and second, because it again forces you to 'deviate' from a single path

For Germany it looks like they're going with the Teutons (as in Regnum Teutonicorum) in the Middle and Germans in the either the Industrial or Contemporary.

Here's how I'd do a whole German chain:

nothing - Alemanni - Teutons - Austrians - Prussians - Germans

It's fun to do this! I have awhole chart of 'em for around the world (bored at home) I could share, but I don't wanna spam up the works.

A good example of how varied a 'path' you could make between Release, Mods, and potential DLCs:

2nd (Classical): any of the more important Germanic Tribes: Alemanni, Cherusci, Suebi
3rd (Medieval): Germans or Bavarians, both of which formed Kingdoms very early, or the Holy Roman Empire, which was predominently German before the Austrian Hapsburgs got a lock on it with the help of loans from A. Fugger
4th (Renaissance): Keeping Austria separate for now: Prussia, Saxony, Palatinate, Bavaria if it hasn't been used already - all relatively strong German states with different cultural attributes that could be 'mined' for Emblematics.
5th (Industrial): German Empire
6t (Modern): German Republic - not forgettng that the Weimar Republic lasted longer than Hitler's ill-fated '3rd Reich' and the post-war FRG lasted longer than both of them together even before amalgamation with the GDR.

 

[mitsho]

It's okay to have gaps - you can stay as a culture for another era after all. As for Germany, Prussa and Austria both are somewhere between Early Modern and Industrial which is what makes it interesting and allows for quite a few expansions later on. The Vanilla roster doesn't need to be perfect after all. You can by the way also argue that the Dutch belong into this German "Family Tree", they were once part of the Holy Roman Empire after all. And I guess all those discussions and alternatives is what will make Humankind interesting. It lends itself to storytelling and I always held that "Civilization" needs more RPG elements.

 

[FinalDoomsday]

I'm still wondering about Germany as we had that artwork with the U-Boat that was clearly a culture card but it made me wonder was that for industrial era or contempoary? I'd like to know the start and end dates of each era to get an idea of things.

 

[j51]

Austria and Prussia in one line is a bit strange though as both were contemporary great powers for some time, and kind of rivals.

True. I'd personally prefer them both in the same era. I was just throwing out some kind of sequence.

 

[j51]

I'm still wondering about Germany as we had that artwork with the U-Boat that was clearly a culture card but it made me wonder was that for industrial era or contempoary? I'd like to know the start and end dates of each era to get an idea of things.

Yes. I'm very curious about the era dates too. It looks like Ancient is pre-600 BCE and Classical is 600 BCE - 600 CE. As for the others: Only Amplitude knows.

I'm especially wondering how the break down the industrial and contemporary eras and who they pick for each. To me it seems like there's a lot of overlap of cultures between those eras.

 

[BuchiTaton]

What I would like for the eras would have been something rounded like this:

I- ANCESTRAL ERA (8500 to 4500 BCE)
II- ANCIENT ERA (4500 BCE to 500 BCE)
III- CLASSICAL ERA (500 BCE to 500 CE)
IV- MEDIEVAL ERA (500 CE to 1500 CE)
V- DISCOVERY ERA (1500 CE to 1700 CE)
VI- REVOLUTION ERA (1700 CE to 1900 CE)
VII- MECHANICAL ERA (1900 CE to 1960 CE)
VIII- INFORMATIC ERA (1960 CE to 2020 CE)

I hope Humankind's eras are something like these, but of course they gonna be less and firstly we need to see the range of Humankind's "Industrial Era".