1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Humankind Remaining Cultures Speculation Thread

Discussion in 'Humankind by Amplitude' started by CivLuvah, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. j51

    j51 Blue Star Cadet

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,156
    Location:
    Ping Island
    Kongo would make the most sense for Early Modern in Africa, or maybe Benin! I also remember seeing a Mohawk warrior, and a Venetian flag on the tech tree, this leads me to think that the there may not be a base African civ for this era and that the list will look like this:

    - Dutch
    - Spanish
    - Venetian
    - Polish
    - Ottoman
    - Mughal
    - Ming
    - Joseon/Korea
    - Tokugawa
    - Haudenosaunee

    I'm also guessing that the Industrial might have two African cultures instead and could look like this:

    - British
    - French
    - Austrian
    - Swedish
    - Russian
    - Ethiopian
    - Zulu or Ashante (I would very much prefer the Ashante please!)
    - Iranian, Omani, or Afghani (I honestly have no idea for the Mid-East, but quite possibly Iranian if there aren't Safavids in the EM.)
    - Thai (We've seen the palace right?)
    - Sioux, Comanche, or Apache

    If I was to make an ideal EM base list, however, it would be this:

    - Dutch
    - Spanish
    - Polish
    - Kongo
    - Ottoman
    - Safavid
    - Mughal
    - Joseon/Korea
    - Tokugawa
    - Haudenosaunee

    * Instead of the Ming in the EM, I would have the Qing in the Industrial. This would better balance out the East Asian cultures between the two periods.

    It's sad that it looks like there are no Andean cultures, especially the Inca. I'm convinced (deluded?), however, that there will be a South American focused DCL either on day one, or very soon after release. It could look something like this by era: Caral, Nazca, Inca, Portuguese, Argentinian, Brazilian.
     
  2. Xandinho

    Xandinho Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,789
    Location:
    Brazil
    I suspect that, since the Andes go from Colombia/Venezuela to Argentina/Chile, there may be a line of Andean civilizations DLC more or less like this: Caral > Nazca > Moche > Inca > Gran Colombia > Argentina. But I still believe (and hope) that the Inca will be in the base game. In this case, we can replace Inca by Muisca in this line.
     
    Meluhhan and CivLuvah like this.
  3. grug

    grug Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2020
    Messages:
    29
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    US of A
    I think that it will not be Venetians but Italians for Early Modern culture with Galleass EU. They're doing cultures, not polities, and they already had the Greeks. Plus, that way they could have the Renaissance Italian city states like Florence, Milan, Pisa, Genoa, Bologna, and Ragusa rather than just Venice. Maybe with a Patron's Gallery to go with the Galleass?
     
    Meluhhan, CivLuvah and Siptah like this.
  4. BuchiTaton

    BuchiTaton Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
    Messages:
    131
    Gender:
    Male
    Personally I would like this to be true. Sadly (for me) you are probably wrong.

    Many people want to have successive "cultures" that represent moments on the history of big names like Italy, France, Britain, Persia, India, China, etc. Of course those regions have well documented history and a dominant role. For this, dynastic names (Sassanid, Tang, Maurya, Abbasid, Habsburg, Napoleonic, etc.) are realy useful, and we cant forget the chance to have many emblematic units and quarters (persian inmortals+cathaphracts, japanese samurai+zero). So I understood and respect the people that want it. Despite these good reasons, I dont want this to be the case for Humankind.

    Is true that Venice and the other italians city states were interesting and relevant, but I still see them as Italians. Of course the 13th century Italy is not the same as 21th century Italy, but the later is the maturation of the former. There wasn´t any major shift on the language, religion or ethnicity of Italy after the christianization and the germanic invasions of Rome. Others examples of huge cultural changes are between ancient Egypt and the Islamic Egypt, Aztecs and Mexicans, Harappa > Maghada > Tamils > Mughals, etc.

    I would prefer Hungarians or Lithuanians over Venice+Italy, and Tibetans or Manchus over the "Shogunate"+Modern Japan.

    Now, is obvious that Humankind is not going to stick strictly to any of these visions. Some confirmed cultures are broad like Celts or Mayans, while others are specific like Umayyad or Carthage, of course both have some elements that difference them from other Arabs and Phoenicians but still are more unique options out there, like Berbers and Israelites.

    So Humankind would exploit any mix of "relevance"+"difference". For example, they can justify Venetians(medieval/early modern)+Italians(industrial/contemporary) and English+British, Russian+Soviets, and a bunch of German cultures (Austrian>Prussian>German), BUT Frenchs is on trouble because they did not constructed a new name/identity while they grew.

    Now what I wonder is how devs are going to name the two eras of Japan or a possible Industrial+Contemporary American cultures?!
     
  5. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4,367
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    Even though it's not ideal it might make the most sense to not have more than one culture from France or Japan/Korea going forward

    I don't see the French coming in the Early Modern Era but waiting in the Industrial Era based off of Napoleonic France.

    As for Japan we've seen them with Edo Samurai and Korea with Turtle ships so they both should be coming in Early Modern Era. I'm not so sure they will do Modern Japan/Korea but if they do it will probably only be one of them, most likely Japan. I could see Vietnam getting in though and only have Early Modern Japanese too.
    Calling Early Modern Korea as Joseons could work but I'm not sure what they would call Early Modern Japan: Edos or Tokugawans I don't think are real adjectives?

    I can only see Americans getting in once, probably the Modern Era when they became a world power.
     
  6. CivLuvah

    CivLuvah Emperor

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,856
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    From Philippines, now Canada
    I have a feeling that Humankind would get an Italian civ before Civ would.
     
  7. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2016
    Messages:
    5,093
    Location:
    Lucerne
    I have to say the Venice as a stand-in for Renaissance Italy would be a quite strange decision. It was and is a rather untypical city for Italy, even today. It‘s outlook was always to the South East, and not to the West and South (Italy). Italy is a diverse country, but Venice is, Sardinia and Sicily aside, probably the least typical place.
     
    CivLuvah likes this.
  8. CivLuvah

    CivLuvah Emperor

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,856
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    From Philippines, now Canada
  9. Gwydden

    Gwydden Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2016
    Messages:
    86
    I've tried this before, but this is the last chance for Early Modern guesses before they start rolling out.

    BASICALLY CONFIRMED
    Ming, Joseon, Japanese: There's no fitting alternative name for Sengoku Japan. Muromachi's a bit off and Tokugawa Japan was completely different.

    ALMOST CERTAINLY IN
    The Ottomans and the Spanish. You can't have Early Modern without these two. I'm pretty confident about this half, so let's start with the educated guesses.

    PROBABLY IN
    Haudenosaunee: I think we're definitely getting one Native American culture. We haven't gotten anything from North America yet, and this one's the most famous for this era.
    Dutch: Iconic and we've gotten some hints to that effect.
    Venetians: Hints, plus they were originally calling this era Renaissance and I'm guessing they would have wanted an Italian representative.
    Polish: They seem to be catering to current gaming markets and Poland's pretty big, plus winged hussar meme. No other good spot for it.

    WILDCARD
    Sweden: To have the same ratio of European cultures we've received in every era thus far, a fifth one would be in order. I don't see them deemphasizing Europe just as it begins to come into its global power. Sweden works best for Early Modern. We already have the USSR represented in Contemporary and, if we must have Imperial Russia somewhere, Industrial's not the worst fit, though a Great Northern War type scenario sounds tempting.

    That said, I can't believe they'd skip Mughals (Builder), though maybe India's popping up too many times already. I find it even harder to believe they'd skip Africa altogether, after having at least one sub-Saharan civilization in each era thus far. That said, I'll play it safe and stick with my bet on eurocentrism.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
  10. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4,367
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    I'm kind of surprised to see how popular the Polish seem to be for the Early Modern Era.

    I would honestly expect the Portuguese over them and it's not crazy to possibly have three merchant cultures in one era now.
     
  11. Gwydden

    Gwydden Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2016
    Messages:
    86
    Thing is, the Dutch, Venetians, and Portuguese can all be described as "small European nations with a predominately naval and mercantile character." Add Portugal's cultural similarity to Spain and the lack of evidence for it, and it seems extremely redundant. If we get a fourth European country I expect one that's more distinct. With England, France, and Germany likely out of the Early Modern running, Poland seems a suitable bit of fanservice.
     
  12. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4,367
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    I agree it would be fanservice. But to me it would be weird if Portugal, the nation that started the Age of Discovery, wasn't in it.
    I'm not quite sure that the Venetians are in though. Venice to me would make more sense as a medieval culture in my opinion. They could just use a Venice galleass for a EU for the Italians. And I would consider the Italians to be an Aesthete culture.
    And Spain could easily be expansionist.
     
    Meluhhan and Guandao like this.
  13. Gwydden

    Gwydden Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2016
    Messages:
    86
    I agree with all of that. Just not sure the folks at Amplitude see it that way.
     
    Alexander's Hetaroi likes this.
  14. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2016
    Messages:
    5,093
    Location:
    Lucerne
    Eh, the Dutch should really be in not just because of the mercantile aspect (and, luckily, they are in). Their golden age brought about a revolution of the arts, they beat what was thought of as the best army that ever walked on earth, and their Society and philosophy quickly leaped ahead into an modernity unknown beforehand. The mercantile advancements are just on top of that.
     
    Guandao and Alexander's Hetaroi like this.
  15. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4,367
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    I'm pretty sure the point is they will most likely be characterized as merchant in Humankind though.

    I'm looking at this actually as a possibility for Early Modern Era:
    Dutch- Merchant
    Iroquois-Agrarian
    Italians- Aesthete
    Japanese- Militarist
    Korea- Scientific
    Ming- Aesthete
    Mughals- Builder
    Ottomans-Expansionist
    Portuguese- Merchant
    Spanish- Expansionist

    Industrial Era:
    Austrians
    Brazilians
    British
    French
    Prussians
    Russians
    Swedish
    Siamese
    Sioux
    Zulu

    Modern:
    Americans
    Australians
    Canadians
    Chinese
    Ethiopians
    Germans
    Indians
    Iranians
    Soviets
    Vietnamese
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
    aguaacrobata2 likes this.
  16. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,770
    Location:
    Poland
    EARLY MODERN
    Dutch - merchant, Iroquis - merchant, Joseon - scientist, Kongo - aestethe, Ming - builder, Mughal - aestethe, Ottoman - expansionist, Poland - agrarian, Spain - expansionist, Tokugawa - militarist

    INDUSTRIAL
    British - builder, Edo - agrarian,
    French - expansionist,
    Iranians - aestethe, Nepalese - militarist, Prussians - militarist, Russians - expansionist, Siamese - aestethe, Swedish - scientist, Zulu - militarist

    MODERN
    Americans - merchant, Brazilians - agrarian, Chinese - builder, Germans - scientist, Ethiopians - aestethe, Indians - aestethe, Italians - builder, Japanese - scientist, Koreans - merchant, Soviets - expansionist


    Industrial and modern setup should look like this partially to acommodate obligatory "world wars gone different" memery. I am really tempted to put Austrians (or even Austro - Hungarians) in industrial as aestethe culture, it's my replacement bet for Prussia. Prussia is here mainly to enable "militarist Germany is necessary for world wars roleplay" and "we won't make modern Germans MILITARIST CULTURE" in the same time :p

    Other interesting modern candidates but almost all certainly not for release version
    Spoiler :

    Argentina - aestethe/agrarian
    Australia - builder
    Belgium - aestethe
    Canada - scientist
    Czechoslovakia - builder
    Finland - scientist
    Kenya - merchant
    Malaysia - merchant
    Mexico - aestethe
    Nigeria - aestethe
    Swiss - scientist
    Thailand - merchant

    Best bet for militarist cultures would be Vietnam, Turkey and Pakistan, but each case would be horribly controversial and honestlty, I can see no modern culture with this label :p
    Merchant Saudi Arabia is likely, although I dislike this country so much...

    Honestly, Israel as militarist culture would be amazingly interesting idea, but everybody would explode if devs did that :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
    Meluhhan likes this.
  17. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,311
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Isidro, Argentina.
    I have high hopes for Argentina in Humankind. They've been working with Argentine video game studios for their last two EL expansions and for the ES2 new updates. So I'm pretty sure they'll add them in at some point.
     
  18. CivLuvah

    CivLuvah Emperor

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,856
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    From Philippines, now Canada
    Do you think Industrial or Contemporary?
     
  19. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,311
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Isidro, Argentina.
    Well, hard to say, as the "peak" in international notoriety was between 1880 and 1920. It was one of the top migration destinies of the Europeans, the agricultural exporter model was cemented, and foreign investments were high. It was not a golden age as some might think though. The government was corrupt (took loans for infrastructure that was never built) and use fraud to stay in power, while the country was rich there were huge inequalities, lots of land were sold to wealthy foreigners and the migrants were many times forced to work for them instead of having their own land.

    I'd say industrial, as it would cover the early liberation wars era, in which Argentina with San Martín was almost as important as Gran Colombia with Bolívar (San Martin fought for the liberation of Chile and Perú), and would also include the agricultural push of the late 19th century. I don't see the country worthy of a relevant spot in the final era of the game.
     
    Meluhhan, Guandao and CivLuvah like this.
  20. aguaacrobata2

    aguaacrobata2 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2019
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    La Plata, Argentina
    I agree. I believe that in regards to the Southern Cone of America in the Industrial age Argentina is a better fit than Brazil, and in the Contemporary Era Brazil is a better fit that Argentina.
     
    Guandao and Elhoim like this.

Share This Page