Hypodermic Needles?

[Stapel]

I'm afraid that I just can't identify at all with them, sorry. I've never used an illegal drug (including drinking underage), never been tempted to, and don't smoke.

Suddenly my respect for you has dropped . Never been drinking before 21 ?


Serious:
I do agree with you: I also cannot identify at all with them. In the first place, people mess up their lifes themselves.

But once you know people in this situation, there comes some nuancating to it! Having a cousin with a minor mental disability, I did change my views a bit. Some people simply are victims, beyond any doubt.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

I'm afraid that I just can't identify at all with them, sorry. I've never used an illegal drug (including drinking underage), never been tempted to, and don't smoke.

No need to identify with them, merely acknowledge that theyre human beings with problems. What Ive been trying to get across in this thread and others is, forget about mambsy pambsy, bleeding heart stuff. Look at it from a standpoint of self interest. Its in the interests of society at large to help fellow citizens with problems. If these people shot up for a few years and then just vanished to another dimension without having any negative effects on the rest of society, then fine, ignore them and the problem will take care of itself. But thats now how the real world works. A group of people shooting up drugs and getting and transmitting AIDs, is harmful to society. So no need to help them because we love our fellow man, there are more than enough selfish reasons to help them.

 

[IglooDame]

Suddenly my respect for you has dropped . Never been drinking before 21 ?

Serious:
I do agree with you: I also cannot identify at all with them. In the first place, people mess up their lifes themselves.

But once you know people in this situation, there comes some nuancating to it! Having a cousin with a minor mental disability, I did change my views a bit. Some people simply are victims, beyond any doubt.

I said I didn't illegally drink underage - in Bermuda there was no age limit (as far as I know) and the few times otherwise that I drank were in legal circumstances (again, as far as I know).

I do understand that some people simply cannot function as responsible adults, either situationally or throughout their lives. However, a manufacturer and in most cases a salesman should not be held responsible because their product could be purchased by someone in that plight. If they are aiming for that specific market, or the salesman had knowledge that the purchaser wasn't in their right mind or adult or what have you, then by all means hit them hard, but I think the burden is on the state to find those guilty of that rather than just making the assumption and banning it entirely.

 

[Stapel]

I agree! I was just making a nuance!

 

[IglooDame]

I agree! I was just making a nuance!

Sorry, nuance now noted.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

You know, in a way, this is an outdated debate. These days heroin is snortable like coke. Thats how people become addicted these days. Its only the really hardcore addicts who actually shoot it up. Kids do stupid things. What if your teenaged child gave in to peer pressure a few times at a club and snorted heroin and became addicted? Suddenly its a big problem right, because its somebody you love. What if you were poor and uneducated, and were unable to help your child kick the habit and society at large didnt give a damn? How would you feel then?

 

[Stapel]

Snortable??????? you mean like lining it up on a flat surface and sniffing it?

Anyway: heroin is a poor mans drug. Good quality cocaine is not even 10% as bad, and not even half as addictive, yet very very expensive.
Most heroin addicts start to use it as an alternative. At least, that was my impression, until I read your remark.

 

[IglooDame]

You know, in a way, this is an outdated debate. These days heroin is snortable like coke. Thats how people become addicted these days. Its only the really hardcore addicts who actually shoot it up. Kids do stupid things. What if your teenaged child gave in to peer pressure a few times at a club and snorted heroin and became addicted? Suddenly its a big problem right, because its somebody you love. What if you were poor and uneducated, and were unable to help your child kick the habit and society at large didnt give a damn? How would you feel then?

Very timely question - my fiance's 17-year-old daughter just moved in with us yesterday. This weekend she gets to hear the house rules, which include zero tolerance on any illegal drugs in the apartment, and an understanding of my attitude regarding using illegal drugs elsewhere.

I would probably be pretty pissed, you're right. However, assuming that my attitude toward jailing drug distributors is such because I have not personally experienced the problems associated with it isn't really giving me any credit. I have a visceral dislike of people that, because some tragedy happens to them or their loved ones, seek to prevent it from ever happening again at any cost. Usually they show up teary-eyed and wonderfully sympathy-inducing in front of a legislature where they beg them to outlaw violent computer games, or pornography, or require speed regulators on cars, or something in a similar vein because they don't want _______ to ever happen to anyone else. Understandable sentiment, but completely forgetting (if they ever understood in the first place) that the price of freedom is measured in blood, and not just that of soldiers and sailors.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Snortable??????? you mean like lining it up on a flat surface and sniffing it?

Anyway: heroin is a poor mans drug. Good quality cocaine is not even 10% as bad, and not even half as addictive, yet very very expensive.
Most heroin addicts start to use it as an alternative. At least, that was my impression, until I read your remark.

Yep, they snort it like coke. Sometimes coke goes in one nostril and heroin goes in the other Thats why every once in a while a middle class kid from a nice family drops dead in a nightclub, and suddenly everybody cares about the drug problem. When its a black kid dropping dead in a tenement, nobody knows or cares.

Igloo, Im all for personal responsibility. But sometimes we have to adjust our ideology to real world events on the ground. Dont be like Bush When you see that your principles and ideology arent solving any problems, the sensible thing is to adjust them to reality. Ignoring people because they have problems doesnt solve anything, all that happens is that often, if left untended, their problems can mushroom and suddenly you or a loved one has to suffer because of it.

 

[CruddyLeper]

I'm ok with needles being exchanged - new ones for old.

Picking up and disposing of dirty needles is no fun at all. Exchanges teach users that even used needles are valuable.

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Yeah, that's a good idea. Got to keep the junkies healthy.

 

[IglooDame]

Igloo, Im all for personal responsibility. But sometimes we have to adjust our ideology to real world events on the ground. Dont be like Bush When you see that your principles and ideology arent solving any problems, the sensible thing is to adjust them to reality. Ignoring people because they have problems doesnt solve anything, all that happens is that often, if left untended, their problems can mushroom and suddenly you or a loved one has to suffer because of it.

Doesn't that strike you as a bit... selfish? A politician who will lead his nation to war but then holds back because his own son would be among those sent into battle is not one that I'd respect. My principles and ideology are not what they are because I'm rich or poor, healthy or plagued, male or female, black or white. My principles and ideology are what they are because I've devoted considerable thought to them, weighing what I believe are the positives and negatives and I truly believe that my positions will result in the greater good in the long run. I'd be happy to argue about whether they will or not (heck, we have done that already on here more than once) but I do regard the inference that I take the positions I do because I've not experienced personal fallout as a result of those policies as somewhat insulting. Since I've come to respect your opinions and how you arrive at them, I won't assume that you intended it that way, though.

 

[Benderino]

I share your opinion, but here in NL, this opinion is regarded as ultra right wing (depending on what kind of insurance).

In general, I think the government / society does have a task to care for youngsters.

Well of course, but how?

 

[Shargon]

Our city gives free needles but ex-junkie friends(they were junkies I never did that crap) never went to get them cos they were fu**ed on heroin all the time

dont know and dont wanna know what kinda diseases they have cos of sharing needles

to answer to poll yes

giving clean needles and getting some used ones from streets is good thing and does not engourage anyone to start using drugs or keep up the good work

 

[Shargon]

You know, in a way, this is an outdated debate. These days heroin is snortable like coke. Thats how people become addicted these days. Its only the really hardcore addicts who actually shoot it up. Kids do stupid things. What if your teenaged child gave in to peer pressure a few times at a club and snorted heroin and became addicted? Suddenly its a big problem right, because its somebody you love. What if you were poor and uneducated, and were unable to help your child kick the habit and society at large didnt give a damn? How would you feel then?

most of mine friends or who I know started using drugs with hash. Was it cos of cannabis they ended up as junkies?????? hell no, reason was cos same people who sold hash sold also heroin. (reason why they wanna use drugs or alcohol is different)

they also snorted heroin before shooting it up

I know few people whose 1st step was extacy.

I agree that all junkies should be treated. Its really expensive to have junkies. They dont work, they steal your car´s cd player and when they try to get off the hook, treatment is really expensive

Alcohol vs Heroine
Booze is dangerous stuff and causes much more damage than drugs today,still. But heroin is "kids stuff" they dont know what they are doing.well they do know but they dot understand consigueses(seuraamuksia)

bit rambling post and too lazy to get dictionary so sorry of those typos or bad english

 

[Bozo Erectus]

I do regard the inference that I take the positions I do because I've not experienced personal fallout as a result of those policies as somewhat insulting.

Uh, all I know about you is that youre into guns and the chick from Andromeda. Not a clue what if any personal fallouts youve had because of your policies. I dont feel like reading the thread again, but Im pretty sure I havent speculated here about events in your personal life affecting your political views When I say that the the poor and uneducated view these things differently from the middle and upper middle classes, thats just selfevident isnt it?

 

[Bozo Erectus]

bit rambling post and too lazy to get dictionary so sorry of those typos or bad english

No problem. Just tell me what 'seuraamuksia' means before I go berserk.

 

[Shargon]

No problem. Just tell me what 'seuraamuksia' means before I go berserk.

consequence=seuraus

go berserk but not cos of that

 

[Bozo Erectus]

consequence=seuraus

go berserk but not cos of that

Ok thanks. There would have been serious seuraamuksia if you didnt tell me what it means

 

[Shargon]

Ok thanks. There would have been serious seuraamuksia if you didnt tell me what it means

I didnt wanna confuse u. I just really didnt know how to spell that word and too hangover to take dictionary and check it

heres song which is inpired by real ex-junkies,,, cos they are dead. Lyrics arent about anyone. just thinking why........

http://www.mikseri.net/www/play.php?type=dl&id=67538