I encountered a Mormon missionary...

[IglooDame]

I think CFC OTers are, on the whole, a highly contrarian bunch.

No we aren't! You're wrong! Do you have a source for that?












sorry, couldn't help myself...

 

[The Last Conformist]

I so was expecting that.

 

[ArbitraryGuy]

This is a subject I'm familiar with, because I was a Mormon missionary for two years in Northern Germany. I'd like to address a couple of missconceptions on this thread:

1) Yes, Mormonism was racsist in the past... but and important point people seem to miss is that SO WAS EVERY OTHER AMERICAN CHURCH until about the 1970's (even Quakers).

2) Mormon's aren't "dumb" or "stupid people". I strongly resent those comments, and am highly insulted. I currently have a 3.9 at a major research university in America and will be starting a rigourous graduate PhD program in the fall. I am quite well versed in philosophy, economics, mathematics, and the history of intellectualism in the West. Does this sound "stupid" to you?

You may not agree with my belief system, but that's no reason to label me or my heritage as "stupid," "silly," "dumb," etc...

Keep in mind, like any other belief-structure, the doctrine of the LDS chruch should be examined by the "whole" in order to completely understand it. Many people cite "parts" of the belief-system that sound illogical or incoherant when taken out of context.

3) Don't tell me what I belive. Comments such as "mormons believe XXX and YYY" are usually false when stated third-hand. I don't believe any of the drivle which has been cited on this thread as official doctrine and neither does the LDS Church.

Frankly, I'm very dissapointed by this thread and its participants who seem so eager to attack concepts and ideas foreign to their belief systems. This thread lacks educated and enlightened discussion. Unfortunatley, that's what discussion degenerates into when people talk about a religion, politics, or any subject they are unfamiliar with.

 

[The Last Conformist]

The problem with Mormonism isn't that it's "stupid", but it's plain wrong about a bunch of important things.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Hm, aside from the pretty odd racism issue, I had the impression that most posts in this thread do not consider Mormons (unlike JWs) whacko. A bit boring, maybe.
And the original post was mainly caused by the surprise to meet a LDS missionary.
I know you guys are supposed to go on that trip, but you'll never meet one in Southern Germany, and obviously its a rare occurance in Denmark as well.

OTOH, you cannot deny that same quotes of your "prophet" are pretty silly by modern standards - but I'm sure everyone here says the same about the bible as well .

 

[punkbass2000]

The most satisfying way to deal with JW missionaries is to simply agree with everything they say. They are so trained to discuss oppsing opinions, if you agree with everything, they run out of arguments pretty soon . Remember one encounter where they simply left after 37x "Yes, that sounds fine.".

Perhaps it's different in Germany, but here, if you do that, you just end up doing it every week, slowly accumulating little booklets...

 

[Double Barrel]

I had an apartment a few years ago that shared an entry balcony with another apartment. The other apartment was used as a living quarters for young Mormon missionaries (2 at a time). They rotated in & out every 6 months (overlapping each other's time).

I must say that these guys were some of the nicest folks I've ever met in my life. Not a pretentious bone in the many dudes I met, and they never tried to force their belief system on me.

A couple of them would always talk to me about sports, as they were interested from their "previous" life (before becoming missionaries) in sports, and I guess they weren't allowed to watch t.v. or keep up with entertainment during their missionary work.

I did speak to one chap about spirituality in general, and we basically had a nice conversation and there was no desire to indoctrinate each other about anything.

And I respect that, because if we can agree to disagree and still find common ground as fellow human beings, it's all cool.

As far as their belief system, whatever. It's a free country, and no more or less strange than most of the stuff I've read on CFC the past couple of years.

You guys, as a group, have some strange beliefs, too (present company included).

 

[Aphex_Twin]

It's interesting how the Church of Latter-Day Saints did not catch on more in the US. It's truly an American religion (American Jesus Christ et al) and if the US would have been a little more nationalistic, could we have expected a Mormon majority in the US today?

 

[andrewgprv]

3) Don't tell me what I belive. Comments such as "mormons believe XXX and YYY" are usually false when stated third-hand. I don't believe any of the drivle which has been cited on this thread as official doctrine and neither does the LDS Church.

If you hear something is false then correct people. It's a perfect time for you to be a missionary for God!

Keep in mind your not the only one with experience in mormonism on this board. You have to remember as well that the church leaders are clever in regard to PR, just cause something isn't official church docterine doesn't mean it isn't taught in mormon churches.

 

[Double Barrel]

Interesting read from your previous post, andrewgprv. I will not label anyone or their belief system, but the idea of "cult" kept coming to mind as I read through it (the entire thing). I'm not saying that Mormons are indeed part of a cult, but there are many similarities between their methods and other organizations that have been identified as cults. (It reminds me of the unquestioning nature that the Church of Scientology utilizes. You either swallow the blue pill and question nothing, or swallow the red pill and be cast out for questioning anything).

Like I've said, to each their own, whatever floats your boat. I respect (and defend) your right to believe what you want to believe...although, I do reserve the right to think to myself that someone might be a bit nuts.

 

[ArbitraryGuy]

If you hear something is false then correct people. It's a perfect time for you to be a missionary for God!

Keep in mind your not the only one with experience in mormonism on this board...

I am fully aware that I am not the only one with experience in Mormonism and that my experience may or may not be different than that of others.

I am also sure that you are fully aware that not all practicing, believing Mormons are so naive as to think that posting on a forum is "being a missionary for God." Just because I am a devout Mormon doesn't mean I am a mindless drone programmed to convert the heathen . In my previous post I was meerly pointing out that context is needed when discussing the parts to any argument, belief, theory, etc... I'm certainly not on a crusade to assimilate everyone into my beliefs or even delineate my religious beliefs to anyone.

 

[ArbitraryGuy]

OTOH, you cannot deny that same quotes of your "prophet" are pretty silly by modern standards - but I'm sure everyone here says the same about the bible as well .

Everybody says silly things and every tradition (religious, theoretical, or political) has had members or leaders with silly unofficial ideas. Nobody can deny that. I just would like to point out that 19th century conjecture or personal ideology is not modern doctrine.

Edit: Double negative.

 

[The Last Conformist]

And so, apparently, isn't 19th C official doctrine.

Well, I don't have a problem with religious evolution, per se. It just makes it hard to take any claims to eternal or absolute truth seriously.

 

[andrewgprv]

Everybody says silly things and every tradition (religious, theoretical, or political) has had members or leaders with silly unofficial ideas. Nobody can deny that. I just would like to point out that 19th century conjecture or personal ideology is not modern doctrine.

Edit: Double negative.

The problem with the mormon church is that "prophets" are supposed to speak for God. Yet when a "prophet's" teachings no longer serve the modern day they are disregarded. And even though God's word is supposed to be unchanging and eternal the church still finds a way of justifying this by claiming that anything said by a "prophet" that does not line up with reality or modern church docterine was an example of the "prophet" speaking as a man and not as a mouthpiece for God. So in reality one never knows if a "prophet" is speaking as a man or for God. But of course the members all know he speaks for God untill what he said seems silly, then he's speaking as a man.

 

[ArbitraryGuy]

So in reality one never knows if a "prophet" is speaking as a man or for God.

I, personally, think it is possible. That's what the intellect is for. It's a shame more people (Mormon or not) don't have one.

 

[downtown]

just cause something isn't official church docterine doesn't mean it isn't taught in mormon churches.

this is true sadly. Ive never heard any of the stuff about black people having sinned in the pre-exsistance, it isnt anywhere i can find in my scriptures, or in any of my other church books, so i think its a load of crap based on a misconception or something. There are some weirdo mormons who teach not so mormon stuff sometimes, which generates false ideas as to what it is.

Aribitaryguy, you are not, by chance, a "zoobie" are you?

 

[cidknee]

Like I've said, to each their own, whatever floats your boat. I respect (and defend) your right to believe what you want to believe...although, I do reserve the right to think to myself that someone might be a bit nuts.

very well put. When i was in the military i went to many many many places and u know what No matter where I went there was a JW or a mormon. Theve come to my house so many times ive put up a sign " No thanks I got a REAL religion"
Not many people will look at the mormon faith and say cool, thats for me. Mainly because ( now this is my own opinion) they are so full of **** it isnt funny. Jesus in america!!! LOL Kinda makes me think a bit when the " leader" of this " religion" has to be all alone in a dark room "interpreting" the word of god. Now that sounds like a " trance" or dudes been smoking something...puff puff. Now to be honest, If you have faith in " god" you are ok. I dont believe in religion, no such thing as a good religion. IF i have to PAY someone to hear the word of god, which the bible tells me is in all of man[kinds]'s hearts and can be heard by the holy ghost, I look at things a bit funny. umm no is my usual reply. Wanna know something funny? i just slammed the door on a JW..lol..
I dont believe in anything that the mormon " religion" says, just doesnt make sense to me. But that didnt stop me from defending thier right to believe it.
Ive got the scars to prove that one.

this is true sadly. Ive never heard any of the stuff about black people having sinned in the pre-exsistance, it isnt anywhere i can find in my scriptures, or in any of my other church books, so i think its a load of crap based on a misconception or something. There are some weirdo mormons who teach not so mormon stuff sometimes, which generates fal[quotese ideas as to what it is

thats because according to a guy who is an x moromon i work with they change thier " scripture" to suit modern times.

 

[ArbitraryGuy]

Aribitaryguy, you are not, by chance, a "zoobie" are you?

NO WAY!

For those unfamiliar with what a "zoobie" is, it is a student of Brigham Young University, an LDS Church-run university in Provo, Utah. I know that I claim that Mormons are not mindless drones, but zoobies come very close

 

[The Last Conformist]

this is true sadly. Ive never heard any of the stuff about black people having sinned in the pre-exsistance, it isnt anywhere i can find in my scriptures, or in any of my other church books, so i think its a load of crap based on a misconception or something. There are some weirdo mormons who teach not so mormon stuff sometimes, which generates false ideas as to what it is.

You might want to follow up the references on this page:
http://www.realmormonhistory.com/god&skin.htm

 

[downtown]

I looked at a few of the sources cited in the website....none of those books or talks are offical church docterine, and thus personal feelings or understandings of docterine. And, they're wrong