I have a dream...

[Wintermist]

It's about the alignment, which as far as I am concerned should be changed in regards to your actions. Some actions give evil points and some give good points.

And since other races/factions who share this type of behavior would gain relationship where a race/faction who does not like such behaviour would instead lose relationship.

In reality this would make it impossible to maintain a good relationship to someone who will not sacrifice population as they differ too much in alignment and end up going to war.

Good people will want to thwart evil actions and the other way around.

This would really have the alignment mean something. Could be it's way too complex to implement but could really add a dimension to the game

 

[Xuenay]

This has been brought up before, and the team's response has pretty much been: yes, it would be too complex, and confusing for beginners, to have a more "fluid" alignment.

There are simpler versions of some of the things you mentioned: running certain Compassion civics gives negative/positive diplomacy modifiers. They don't change your alignment, though.

 

[Senethro]

I think somewhere previously it has been said that since this is dark fantasy, Good/Neutral/Evil are basically labels for which side you're on. The Good broadly support good gods and the natural order of the world, while the Evil support evil gods and to destroy, subdue or subvert creation. The Neutrals tend to be independent.

 

[Wintermist]

The main problem I have with this is the fact it's very easy to maintain a good relationship with an opposing faction. It's almost making alignment pointless other than initial reaction.

 

[Kael]

The main problem I have with this is the fact it's very easy to maintain a good relationship with an opposing faction. It's almost making alignment pointless other than initial reaction.

Yeah, it all depends on how dominant you want the effect of alignment to be on diplomacy. I like where it is right now, but that is an influence on diplomacy, not control over it.

In my mind players looking for a stronger influence can either force war, create scenarios, or modify the alignment effects in the global settings file. I probably won't want random games to be that deterministic.

 

[loki1232]

Or perhaps a game option like "alignment wars"--something like doubled effects of different alignemtns and AI's are 1/2 as likely to adopt religions that would change their alignment.

 

[Ekolite]

Yh, an option for it would be fine.

Also, AFAIK why don't neutral civs get diplo bonuses with each other. Ie shouldn't Valedia get '+4 you are neutral' from falamar?

Also, I often find, playing as an evil civ, that it is easier to maintain good relations with a good civ then a neutral one.

Finally, if neutral civs get '-2 you are evil' to evil civs, shouldnt they get -2 to good civs as well?

 

[xienwolf]

By the Lore, Neutral isn't really a faction, it is those who aren't "playing the game" with the other Angels fighting over creation. They do hate what the "evil" gods are doing, supplanting "The One," However, unlike the "Good" gods, they do not care to directly oppose them.

Thus, they do hate the "evil" side. And both sides hate them. (and they are indifferent about the good and neutral ones)

 

[MrUnderhill]

@Wintermist: No promises, but I'm looking into adding sliding-scale alignment to FFH via a mini-mod. My idea was to have religions, civics, units, and other effects cause your alignment to go up-and-down over time.
Xuenay has a point though; these systems are difficult to keep simple, and can be daunting for beginners. Hence why I think putting it in a mini-mod would be more appropriate, so that people can play with and without that feature if they want.

 

[Wintermist]

@Wintermist: No promises, but I'm looking into adding sliding-scale alignment to FFH via a mini-mod. My idea was to have religions, civics, units, and other effects cause your alignment to go up-and-down over time.
Xuenay has a point though; these systems are difficult to keep simple, and can be daunting for beginners. Hence why I think putting it in a mini-mod would be more appropriate, so that people can play with and without that feature if they want.

Can't wait to see it. I do realise one has to put some thought into this so that it doesn't ruin the game. I guess one way to do it would be instead of changing alignment it could atleast change your standing towards other alignments.

Random events could change your standing towards other races.
Certain structures could perhaps do the same.

The more I think about it the more I realise it's quite complex to make it a logical part of the game, but I definately think it could be done. I'd be happy to brainstorm this with you if you want.

 

[the_fish]

@Wintermist: No promises, but I'm looking into adding sliding-scale alignment to FFH via a mini-mod. My idea was to have religions, civics, units, and other effects cause your alignment to go up-and-down over time.
Xuenay has a point though; these systems are difficult to keep simple, and can be daunting for beginners. Hence why I think putting it in a mini-mod would be more appropriate, so that people can play with and without that feature if they want.

It's only daunting to beginners if you want to have absolute control over your alignment.

As the effect of alignment (so far) is a minor diplomacy modifier, there isn't really much incentive to control it. Therefore a sliding system would be flavourful, without making gameplay additionally complex.

Of course, if you then have tech/unit/religion restrictions based on alignment, there becomes more of a reason to aim for a particular one. Ideally, the system would be intuitive (i.e. act 'evil' and you will shift to evil), so guiding alignment would be fairly easy to do regardless of knowledge of the detailed mechanics involved.

Just my thoughts. I'm very interested to see how this turns out.

 

[kenken244]

I think that any player should be able to choose what alignment that they want to be and stay that way until they shoose to change, But if the slider bar is not at you alignment, then you get penalties like increase in rebellion or crime, less culture and unhappiness. possibly some negative events could be added too.

This will be more beginner friendly as they won't suddenly loose their units and have nothing to do to get them back, and allows more options for the player (so I can finally play as the evil bannor I've always wanted)

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

An event chain that is very rare would be nice that would change your alignment if you chose certain options.

 

[MrUnderhill]

By my first glance at the SDK, it looks like alignments have gotten a bit more complicated since .23 (I've only had access to BTS for a few weeks, so that's the version I'm most familiar with). Kael, could you or anyone else on the FFH team please explain how the XML and the Enums file are related? Is it still possible to use numeric alignments like .23 , or am I stuck with names?

Thanks.