I will beat standard Deity by conquest once...With your advice:)

[RedKi-rr]

Inspired by Lain's games

http://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/deitymania-2-lincoln.602160/

http://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/deitymania-1-toku.599547/

I decided to try another attempt for Civ 4 BTS Deity game. So, I will play careful, making some pictures and notes. Not sure whether I will win, but I should play better after that

Of course, I need some advice from you, especially for strategic moments, namely, for city placement, for tech trading, diplomacy and so on.

I don't see reasons to play Immortal since I already beat it long time ago and didn't meet any difficulties.

I choose Catherine since she is well balanced leader (no weak neither very strong, so she is not OP Incas), she nice for novices and...I was lucky with her several times to get a decent start.

I choose Pangea since I want to make conquest through vassaling and (may be) starting with Cuirs rush.

Other options are standard (size, water level, no huts and events, etc.)

So, I take the first map. The land looks nice. Imp+Cre should be good to grab some spots.

Where should I settle? May be 1 SE?..Where it would be good to put the second city (assuming we don't see new better spots)?

If you decide to play your own game then please put it in spoilers. And please don't put in spoilers the general discussion.

I will wait a couple of days and then do several turns until it is not obvious for me how to continue. So, I hope it would be helpful for other Emperor/Immortal players struggling with Deity.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I might be tempted to settle 2-E on the forested plains hill for the extra hammer in the city center; that is 2 Hpt +50% H or 3 Hpt for settler builds from just the city center. It also puts the irrigated wheat in the BFC; Pig grassland hill pasture and irrigated wheat farm both provide a hammer each, making 3 Hpt for settler builds from the two food sources alone.

From this location, there are still a few forests to chop and three grassland and two plain hill (potential) mines to work. The three grassland hill mines can be worked with the pig pasture, making an initial research target of Animal Husbandry desirable. Agriculture could be researched first to get a 20% research bonus on Animal Husbandry; Later, The Wheel (chariots) and Pottery can be researched for cottages (fairly good riverside flatlands for this) and Granary. Agriculture -> Animal Husbandry seems best for this start; we really want to improve both pig hill and wheat plains ASAP.

Need to explore quickly with the initial Scout to spot other good settling spots and the AI Civ locations.

 

[Lain]

I only have the info from your screenshot, didn't look at game yet (scout move).

Would settle 1N, move scout on the gems and keep him there until gems are improved (reduces chance of jungle spread ... I think jungle doesn't actually spread on tiles if there is a unit, or maybe veeery low chance) ... early gems >>>> scouting knowledge for me, especially since you can see three good spots already. Pigs is enough food, you keep one flood plain. Maybe another resource in the fog west.

City #2 right now: Plains hill in the south, can help with cottages + creative for easy border pop on wheat. But blocking land somewhere might make more sense.

Tech: AH -> Bronze Working -> (if no Horses/Copper near) Archery -> Agriculture -> Wheel -> Pottery -> Writing

City #2 won't need roads early, worker can chop + build mines. I would aim for 6 cities @ 1000 BC and then you can go for Cuirs. On Pangaea you probably want to expand quickly and with gems you can afford it. All just my opinion of course, there are many other approaches ... I will do that if I get around to playing, will finish Egypt game first. Not much time at the moment.

 

[elmurcis]

From what I see - I would take 2E (1S from Pig) - extra hammer from city tile, farming wheat (so 1st Agriculture I guess? it will give cheaper AH and with wet wheat you would want agriculture anyway soon) and mining Pig (2F3H1C tile) would give 6 base hammers (9 with IMP trait) - growing to 2 with warriors. For scouting I would take 2 SE just to see if there is some sea food (that would be impossible to use if settle 1S from Pig). If there would be something, should think again.

 

[Lain]

Ok, I couldn't resist. Somehow "endgame" is really boring for me right now... tedious cannon-wars and then naval transition, bleh. Pangaea is a good distraction.

1 AD~ , can compare later

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Catherine with Creative and Imperialistic trait is ideal for a peaceful REX. Imperialistic to get more settlers out faster. Creative to expand borders quickly, such that resources can be in the 2nd ring of the BFC and they will be improveable in 5t (normal speed; 3t for capital) after settling.

 

[RedKi-rr]

Thanks a lot for your answers!

I like both your approaches. However, if we settle 2E then it could difficult to access the calm, this is only one shortcoming which I see. But does it matter?...Since sea food will work only in some future.

If we settle 1N then it could be easier to research, but less food.

Also you can note a gray land in the left-bottom corner, which probably means tundra, then we should be somewhere on south.

Well...I slightly tend to settle 2E against 1N and 1SE. Let's try to make strong-hammer capital. Also I am thinking to move scout 1NW. So, If I would not see something really good then I will go 2E. Hence the second city I tend to make somewhere near gems. Does it mean that it is better to start with settler first?...

 

[RedKi-rr]

I will do that if I get around to playing, will finish Egypt game first. Not much time at the moment.

Well, I don't think that that game could be interesting. I tried it again...Missed Lighthouse and Mids. And falled behind in techs...Mansa+Wang is disaster. But with all your advice, even without wnders I had 6-9 size cities at 1 AD, it was much better than my first game. I had only problem that I couldn't trade normally.

I saw the map and opponents at that map. On one hand it could be interesting, on the other hand it could be boring for you. So, probably you can just come to the point where you say to yourself - "I won" and don't do all those naval transition. I think you showed pretty much of it in Lincoln game But in the Egypt game the most interesting can be the initial part against Mansa+Wang.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Lain's suggestion is excellent. Except, I'm not sure keeping the scout on gems too prevent jungle growth (it does do this with absolute certainty) is worth the loss of scouting until a worker can be built and placed on the gems building a mine. One may want the worker to build a pig pasture or wheat farm first for food, which keeps the scout on the gems even longer.

It might be ok, if one builds a 2nd scout while growing to population 2. Working the two strongest plots will speed up the worker so its delayed only a few turns

The plain hills 2-S 1-E would be a nice bureaucratic capital location with the 2H city center and mainly riverside grasslands plots for cottages. It might even be coastal (hard to tell from just the screenshot).

 

[RedKi-rr]

Also I see another point the settler 1N...With Creative trait the borders will expand quickly, hence there is no need to fogbust the shoreline. It looks like we are on SE of the Pangea island. So, settling 2E could mean that we go close to the corner.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

If one has trouble keeping up with the tech rate of the AI Civs, espionage can help keep one in the tech part of the game and in other areas of the game as well.

Technology stealing works best by giving the AI Civ tech leader a city 3 plots from one's capital, after it has put in at least 10-100 culture in to gain a -50% City Culture espionage discount. Having different state religions provides -15% espionage discount (your state religion must be in the target city). Owning the Holy City of one's state religion provides an additional -25% espionage discount. Open borders sometimes provides a -20% Trade Route espionage discount. Stationary Spy espionage discount provides -10% per turn one's spy is stationary to a maximum of -50% discount (5 turns of fortification). Generating and spending a lot of espionage will increase one's Espionage Point Spending discount which can exceed -40%, but is usually between -10% and -30% with moderately heavy espionage generation/spending.

With all these discounts, one can steal a technology with 1/3 to 1/4 the espionage points as the beaker cost of the technology. One just needs Alphabet to build Spies, a target city with most espionage discounts available and a few turns of 100% espionage slider. You are limited by which technologies the target has.

Key espionage buildings include Courthouse (2 Ept; 1 Spy slot), Jail (4 Ept; +50% Ept; 2 Spy slots), Intelligence Agency (8 Ept; +50% Ept; 2 Spy slots) and Security Bureau (8 Ept; +50% espionge penalty versus enemy missions; 2 Spy slots).

There is excellent synergy with technology stealing as described above and one or more strong vassals. One simply directs the research of one's vassals to take exactly the technology paths one wants. Just be sure to give a city 3 plots from your capital to this Civ prior to entering the Vassal relationship (they will never accept the city after becoming a Vassal, unless they had prior ownership and culture in the city) and maybe avoid the Culture Flip after Conquest option. If the city does flip back, the target Civ will continue to accept it as a gift; just keep giving it back. The only disadvantage of this research stratrgy is your vassals may trade certain technologies you don't want them to trade, but they are unlikely to trade them too soon, with the exception of Mansa Musa who will always trade except with his worst enemy.

 

[RedKi-rr]

Okay, it is time to make some moves

Turn 2. 3980 BC. Everntually, after long thinking I decided to settle 2E (mostly I wanted food and to see how Imp works with additional hammers). So, Moscow is settled. Started Agri. Scout showed nothing interesting.

Turn 7. 3720 BC Meet Izzy of Spain.

Turn 11. 3560 BC. Meet Hannibal of Carthage. Where should is it better to put spypoints?...Finised Agri, started AH.

Stopped here for now.

And also, very global question. Where would you prefer to put cities? I tend to put the second city near gems asap and the third city somewhere between rice and calms. I don't want to settle the jungle, but want peacefully fulfill the blocked land and get 6-7 cities.

 

[elmurcis]

Hmmm... Jungle.. I don't like jungle.. Let AI have jungle and clear it for me (okay, just kidding) just 1 simple gems tile won't give much without good food for 2nd city (3rd/4th city would be okay there)
But here best spot (because CRE so can have food in 2nd ring) seems 1E from stone (gets Cow - 6 yield tile - for early game and later 2 Clams and might get WB also for Moscow.. or other city next to it someday)

 

[Lain]

You researched Agriculture first for wheat, now I would go straight for Bronze Working. 1x Pigs is not worth it imo. Mine the pigs (2 food 3 hammers 1 commerce is nice) and chop out settler at size 2 or 3 (grassland-mine is good tile, too). Then you can get settler in 7-8 turns.

Would settle 2W of gems even without food. Just work gems and claim some resources for later. Also block a bit land with culture. Then go for clam/rice city as suggested. You could also go straight for clam/rice, but not sure about barbs. You would need wheel + fishing, too.

Maybe build warrior in Moscow, grow to size 3 and just go Settler-Settler for both cities. Research: Bronze Working -> maybe Archery if no copper -> wheel.

 

[RedKi-rr]

I like 1E from stone, but not sure where I can be in time there. You can see Izzy's border there.

Also there should be hidden resourse to east of sheep probably. May horse or bronze?...

2 Lain: You almost convinced me for going to BW next...I really need those setttlers. But what about workers and scout/warriors?...Can we be safe from barbs?...When do they usually start entering the borders?...I didn't think about 2W from gems...May be even over dye?...

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Hannibal is more likely to research faster, so I'd put all espionage on him right now.

Settling on the Ivory might be reasonable; such a city could share pig and clams with the capital, if it has no food of its own. Two gems mines (one after Iron Working) will really help with research. This site really needs to have its BFC completely revealed is see how good it really is.

A city 1-E of stone, as elmurcis suggested, may be a better location for a second city though. It even makes a reasonable hammer city with just the stone and cow plots. There is even a bare grassland hill for a mine and two clams is plenty of food. It does have a lot of jungle though, like the Ivory site.

 

[Lain]

Try to have barb defense by turn ~35. If you go AH and don't find horses, you really need barb defense and it will be a big problem. Bronze Working will be useful even if you don't find copper (chop, whip). 170 beakers or so for 3 more food in capital is a big price. With imperialistic mine-pigs is actually a great tile

I would go Bronze Working and then Archery straight away, that should be fine. Try to fogbust stone-city with your scout so there won't be a barb spawn. Izzy should help a bit, too. You won't have wheel for a while, that's why I suggested Gem-city first (-> river connection). But Stone-City would be great and worth it even without connection in the beginning. Really need gems soon for commerce though.

Personally, I would only research AH after writing. Or even ignore until Aesthetics trade. I have a feeling Izzy will settle the cows or something before you can get it.

 

[RedKi-rr]

Thanks a lot! It looks like I know what I need to do in the next 10-20 turns.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Maybe focus more time on the exploring scout. Search for blocking sites. Explore more of the immediate north. Also, exploring sites near the capital is good too. It's hard to tell how far away the two contacted AI are; they may be far enough away so blocking sites aren't needed. I would not explore far from the capital until the AIs have settled their second city, otherwise they may settle toward the contact point then away (just speculation on my part).

Animal Husbandry -> Bronze Working would be fine AG this point. I don't see a huge benefit in rushing to Bronze Working now, unless you know the AI cities are quite close. Of course due to the Imperialistic trait, pre-Mathematics chops deliver 30H each! So, you definitely want Bronze Working early. Even Bronze Working first would have been ok, growing on floodplains plots until a food tech was researched. Agriculture -> Bronze Working -> Animal Husbandry probably works better though.

Lain is providing really good advise, if you really want to leverage Catherine's Imperialistic trait.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Note that settling on plains Ivory provides the city center with 2Hpt, just like settling on plains hill, except one obviously doesn't get +25% hill defense. That extra hammer in the city center really helps in the early game.