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ICEMOD: mod design, race design, strategies

Discussion in 'Other Civ-Related Games' started by Rocco.40, Mar 11, 2015.

  1. Rocco.40

    Rocco.40 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2015
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    only enable "ICE-M.CFG", so:

    # include 150\SET150.CFG;
    include ICE\ICE-M.CFG;
     
  2. MOO2Fan84

    MOO2Fan84 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
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    For this great Mod, this was what I waited for all this years!
    I have two questions:
    First, I don't understand how to activate "Zeroth Weapon Flag", what command do I have to write, I managed to modifie waepons, but I didn't manage to activate this flag...

    Second, since the patch works only with the english version and I am german, is there an easy way to use the files from the german MOO2 to have everything in german, or do I need to go the hard way, by renaming all technologies and weapon names?
    acctually it's not so important, since my english is quiet good,
    but I am go crazy about this Zeroth Weapon Flag, want to put this flag at the proton torpedo, but have no idea how...
     
  3. Rocco.40

    Rocco.40 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Well, i owe you an apology here, as it was explicitely written in manual to work, but in fact it did not work. Sorry if it caused you to waste time on it.
    The issue has just been fixed with hotfix 1.50.4.1 that can be downloaded from my site.

    There is no easy way at the moment. Perhaps we'll do something about it some time .. who knows :)
     
  4. MOO2Fan84

    MOO2Fan84 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Thanks, it works now!

    I tried to give the proton torpedo enveloping as a inherent mod but didn't work. MIRV as a inherent mod didn't work as well, isn't it possible to give torpedos this mods as inherent mod?

    Is there any possibility to change the text you see if you researched the technologies?
    Are this the files "Tanm_001 - Tanm_213"?
    I tried to open them, do I need a Hex editor to read them?
    If yes, how to get one?

    Can I create a new tech field or can I just mod the existing?

    If I have a cybernatic race and add a repair unit and a hero that repairs, will everything be added, so cybernatic repair X% + auto repair unit Y% + hero Z%= acctual repair, or just the highest bonus is taken into account?
     
  5. Rocco.40

    Rocco.40 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    The supported inherent mods are:
    #0 Zero
    #3 Damages internal systems directly (Ion Cannon)
    #4 Kills people onboard (Neutron, D.Ray)
    #5 Extra Structural Damage (Graviton)

    Technology and many other in-game texts can be changed by editing HELP.LBX (or the much improved HELP150.LBX)
    The tool MOO2Workshop is required, link is on my website.

    No, Yes :)
    Check our manual on how to mod tech fields.

    They should stack iirc
    This is testable in Hotseat game.
     
  6. StarTrooper2

    StarTrooper2 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    Messages:
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    I really like the 150 update......nice!

    the first thing I notice playing ICE:
    all starter scouts are unarmed
    found myself editing to make the frigates able to have extended fuel & wpn.

    next was the research tree:
    the tree changes making the creative choice really worthless.
    [I see "above" this can be edited to give choices for research libraries/auto factories.......lol
    will have to look into that option if I want to play creative again]

    another was race picks:
    many times I come up with 1 point remaining and nothing is only 1 point.
    ended up making Lg HW 1 point.

    I haven't got to end a game yet, but I see ICE has certainly brought a new dimension to the game!
    got to wonder about why all the time and effort wasted on moo3/moo4 trying to create a new moo2.
    why try to invent the wheel again? your work has done what they failed to do, make a great game better.
    may not have the pretty graphics, but graphics are secondary to making the game better.....

    I really appreciate all the effort/work you guyz have done.
    one of the game companies needs to hire you guyz to build a real expansion pack rather than trying to re-invent an already great game.
    thx
     
  7. Rocco.40

    Rocco.40 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Great that you like it!

    > Yes, the scouts, thats because i have made extended tanks insanely expensive in ice.
    Tanks do get miniaturization however, which was not the case in classic.

    > Creative, yes it's also been hotly debated in previous posts :)
    Ofc, there is Config now to save the day and you could lower its cost easily.

    > 1pts left, yep natural consequence of moving to 45pts system.
    I have chosen to keep LHW at 2pts because i did not want it to become some balance item, but it should have some "real" cost still.

    > Moo3/4 .. sigh ... what can i say, i am still here and playing moo2. :rolleyes:

    > Should they wish to hire me for an official expansion or an official 20th years patch, i am avail for it --
    We are a team of 3 tho, so they better be prepared to have the full team on it. Heheh. :)
    Also, i would insist of expanding the team with a graphics guy ... just sayin' ...
     
  8. StarTrooper2

    StarTrooper2 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    one other issue I forgot:
    the outpost ship.........omg
    the thing is more expensive than a destroyer......lol
    I see you have made changes to slow down missile spammers and quick games.
    I get it......

    but with the outpost that expensive, is it possible to have it drop an automated missile, fighter, or gun base when its not colonized?
    for that matter, maybe even if you end up colonizing!
    barracks & a military base would balance the price.....
     
  9. Rocco.40

    Rocco.40 Chieftain

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    Ah the infamous Outpost Ship!
    Imo this one is of the same order as the Extended Tanks:
    They make reach easily available, but the AI is not able to use them.
    Thus i don't consider using both is 'level playing field' against AI.

    Ofc, i use them myself all the time, but felt that a cost increase was in order here.

    I like the idea of a guarded outpost (1/2 a standard ground batteries or something?) but we have no plans to make such mod atm.
     
  10. Colon

    Colon Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2001
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    I'm surprised that automated factory is no longer a singleton in the latest version of ICE. Didn't you chose to make it a singleton because of the AI?
     
  11. Rocco.40

    Rocco.40 Chieftain

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    Yes indeed and it was one of the earliest things i changed in the techtree for icemod, it has been there pretty much since the beginning.
    But there couple 'soft' reasons to change things there-
    - restoring that iconic field of factories/h.armor/missile base (always tough to let the base and armor slip by)
    - missile base can appear earlier on AI planets and the armor on AI bases
    - making b.pods a singleton, which also should benefit AI greatly (even tho pods are not the big 50% bonus here)
    - increases the value of being Creative
     
  12. neilkaz

    neilkaz Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Chicago Suburbs
    So GOOD is this patch and mod! Ice-X 13 is tougher than the versions I was playing a year ago (although I may be a bit rusty). I've read that there's some way to edit something to basically turn off AI surrender. What do I need to do to change the earliest AI surrender time from T150 to T999 (basically eliminating this nonsense)?

    Thx .. neilkaz ..
     
  13. Rocco.40

    Rocco.40 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Hi. Good to see you back here!

    In your ICE config text file "COMMON.CFG" you can find in Section 2 the line
    ai_surrender_delay = 150;
    change it to a higher number of your choosing & save file. Done!
     
  14. neilkaz

    neilkaz Chieftain

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    Location:
    Chicago Suburbs
    Thx I must've checked almost every file but that one. Surrender set to 999 which prevents it as game is long over b4 then. This is the ONLY change I will make to default Ice X 13 Impossible.

    Game 1 UniProdRep etc etc and too many AI's hated me and too much attack in early/mid 200 turns. So a loss.

    Game 2 seemed to be a better start but same happened several turns later so again I resign as can't save HW and other key planets.

    Game 3 seemed ok til Tri's whom I wasn't close to beating surrendered to Ants who then were overpowering. Rage quit and came here to learn to turn off the idiocy of AI surrender. (I do same in GalCiv 3 etc)

    Game 4 I switch to Feudal and not Rep and can talk and work with AI's. Rather poor starting position and Cats butcher me in early 200's

    Game 5 somewhat better start in spite of not having early good relations with AI's. Went PP rather than AR and took Pulsons and basically beelined to Adamantium Armor getting it pre T180. MIRV Pulsons then saved me, but AI lightning fields for their SB's slowed my attacks up greatly. Managed 2 Antaran ship captures (3 captured, 1 blew up) in the 270's and killed Guardian in the 280's and then a win at Antares T316 with few of 45 BB to spare.

    Game 6 Feudal super-race again, great start with enough friendly AI's and 3 awesome monster systems close by. This is a stomp fest so far, but still one must win it somehow.

    Such a challenge this game now is vs the comps!! IMO, this has become the best TBS game EVER vs comps and certainly is best for 4X space addicts vs comps.

    It would be nice to have a way to save at least a few ship designs from game to game, that is all that is needed.

    .. neilkaz ..

    PS I only recall losing one game of earlier versions of ICE-X a year ago but v13 presents more difficulty to me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
  15. neilkaz

    neilkaz Chieftain

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    Chicago Suburbs
    As expected my game 6 was an easy win, but still being ICE-X presented some counterattacks from shockingly advanced AI's. Some key/interesting moments from my game.

    Note that I am playing the following race and always play pre-warp Huge/8/Imp. Feudal, Litho, +1 Prod,+1 res, Arti and Rich HW and negs Feudal/LG.

    1) The first monster system I took was exposed to the Bears who wouldn't trade with me. Surely and attack was coming so rather than grab the other two nearby monster systems I kept my FF's their to guard and added a couple more while tech'ing. Bear DD attacks and shoots one FF dead and runs away, next comes a CC, soon both ships return together and while killing one FF they run into a hail of MIRV nukes. It's about T115 now and two BB are ready and I make the decision to destroy the 3 Bear systems in order and to bomb the planets and recolonize rather than waiting for dozens of transports to defeat their HG/Sub't and GC+20 troops.

    2) Just prior to T130 and the Bears are gone and I've recolonized and am transporting in colonists. Coids below me decide to attack and I am ready for them. Soon I take a Coid planet this time using troops and LOL I steal Android Workers! How'd a Repulsive get them that early? Must've tech'ed them by themselves? Anyhow, I'd soon put some droids to good use. I finished off Coids and Cats and was having great relations with the others.

    3) Now it was all about researching and expanding and terraforming and artificial planets and at T251 a big fleet with many BB with MIRV/EMG Pulsons kills the Guardian. Of course as easy win is expected but immediately the Birds break treaties and attack. I manage to rally enough defenses and ships ship gradually whittle down their big invasion force, while my far flung fleet was taking their worlds. More nice techs stolen in ground combat and I was able to ready myself for two Antaran attacks, capturing 10 but all but 3 blew up!

    4) T262 and the elections have finally come and if I'd had the sense to ally the Psilons I'd have ended the game then as they'd cast their vote for me rather than Sakkra, but I'd felt that I'd have enough votes on my own. However I was a couple votes short so....I cranked out ships and went to Antares T277 with 70 BB mostly with Death Rays and some with EMG Pulsons. 10 Death Stars each with 15 Death Rays and tons of defenses rounded out my fleet. This should be enough to win with ease so I pressed auto but after about 10 minutes it became clear that I'd better micro the attack myself to assure my victory.

    What fun Ice -x v13 is and a great challenge compared to Vanilla! Always under pressure and a must to have some early ships to fight/defend. In Vanilla all one needs to do (as a non-blitzer) is to get Z-armor and MIRV Mercs and the AI's have less than no chance.
     
  16. neilkaz

    neilkaz Chieftain

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    For game 7 of ICE-X 13 I went back my UniProd+2Food+1RichArti balanced super-race and this time with -10 spies and -10 ship def rather than Repulsive. Always prewarp and the only change is that I turn off AI-Surrender. Hmm...I might as well have been repulsive as none of the AI races that normally will easily deal with me wanted much of anything to do with me. My development is slowed somewhat due to lack of trade and tech treaties but finally the Humans agree. I soon am framed for spying and a couple races come after me. Finally the Gnols added to my misery and I cannot save my empire and resign T234.

    Game 8 Same Uni-Balanced race and a better starting setup along the center of the top. This time most nearby AI's wanted to play nice with me and I had an easy and strong start. I decided to MIRV Mercs this time choosing the very nice Microlite Construction while attacking a Repulsive as my troops had taken U-cells in conquest. About T 225 as I continue my conquest of another Repulsive I get warning of an Antaran attack. I have just enough turns to muster some Assault Shuttles and the 3 planet system they're attacking has some defense so I can hope to win the battle and keep any surviving captures. Phasor Rifle researched finished just in time. Normally I'd wait for Plasma Rifle but felt the immediate +10 would help me capture. I captured 3 of the 6 but they all exploded (50% chance). Oh well, at least the lone raider that I captured about 20 turns later survived so I could scrap it, but I didn't get anything awesome from it except the best computer.

    As I had every GC tech expect Plasma Rifle I figured my GC was more than adequate so I went Plasma Cannons enhanced with the Range Finder Unit. I continued to take enemy planets and then the Birds turned on me. As I was taking their planets with ease I was just big enough to barely win the GC vote on T277.

    Game 9 Uni-Bal again and my start in the lower right corner seemed OK until I quickly discovered these ugly fat purple lizards too close to me. They want no part of coming over for dinner and drinks and to smoke the peace pipe. I am limited to only 3 systems and can't risk the time to tech to supercomps. Yep, the Sakkra attack my closest system, but I have nuke missile ships waiting for them and they get some garbage scows destroyed a couple of times. Once I get Atmos Ren, I upgrade to MIRV Nukes and blockade their closet system while waiting to build a BB and lots of transports. I attack conquering planets and enslaving lizards. All is go til T133pw when Bears take their HW Sssla one turn before my needed extra transports arrive. As usual in MOO and similar games the AI's jump on a dying race for easy pickings.

    Hmm...Sssla was supposed to be mine and I would then make a fatal mistake and DOW the Bears (which broke our tech treaty) and take Sssla from them. All was OK for a while, but I had fight and defend and crank out ships and am slowly making some progress. But then the Humans jump into the war allied with the Bears. Things aren't so rosy now and once a third AI jumps into the war against me I am barely holding on and sometimes losing planets and recapturing them or capturing something else from the AI's in return. I was trying to muster up enough to get to Orion and had EMG but with the passage of time I was losing two much and resigned at T262 as there were two races fleets of doom all over me that I couldn't kill.

    Several times I tried to get the Bears to make peace at times when I'd hurt them. But they simply wouldn't deal with a treaty breaker. Lesson learned. This is ICE not Vanilla where I could've romped all over them and then the Humans.

    Game 10 and using my UniBalanced super race. My start near the upper left is mediocre and nearby AI's are about as soft and friendly as sandpaper. Finally, I make a couple of friends, and things are going OK, but true to form for some AI with stealthy ships, the Darloks attack. These are the horrid telepathic Darloks that I've complained about previously in ICE-X. Soon the Cats jump in and while I can conquer Cat worlds and counter attack and retake some of what the Darloks take from me, the Darloks simply have too many ships and I can predict where they will strike next.

    A-armored Battlestations along with missile bases and fighter garrisons and some defensive ships aren't enough to save my planets as they can kill several+ BB's with their first strike and theu have the ship initiative. Finally at 287 I am eliminated. No, my insolence did not cost me my empire, the OP telepathic ICE-X Darlok race did!

    Game 11 I try good old basic UniTolLRHW with negs LG -def -spy. I start just to the left of center along the top and nearby planets are decent. UniTol takes a bit longer to get going since research isn't as fast as UniBalanced races I play. But once it gets going with bigger planets and no pollution it rolls. Nearby AI were quite friendly except for the Mecks well to my right. Eventually they DOWed me and I fought the good fight and they were gone about T165. I now had much of the top third of the galaxy to myself and expanded quickly. Zeon missiles were stolen in one of my invasions of the Mecks. Onward to Advance Chem +1 so I can MIRV them. I didn't worry about teching to EMG. I just sent 10 BB each with 15 MIRV Zeons and some defenses to Orion T222 and overpowered the Guardian. Then along with Locknar's ship and some reinforcements I basically split into 3 fleets and stomped any non friendly AI's. The GC win came T237.

    I think I'll try UniTol again next game but with the new v6 patch. I don't expect such a good start with friendly AI's. EDIT: Hmm..I see ICE 13a now. More money for the AI's but cheaper colony bases for me. Probably makes the AI's even tougher.

    EDIT: Since I've forgotten a most unpleasant loss and decided to stick with just ICE 13 for a couple more games.

    Anyone else playing ICE-X? Please give us some war stories, details, advice, whatever. This is a perfect game for me now since I can't always win even with the most OP races I can think up. Attempts at roll playing or fooling around with less optimal races are usually met with getting pounded in the early 200's pw when Ice AI's can have lots of nasty BB's.

    EDITTING AGAIN: I played a few more games before switching the the new patch and v 13a.

    Game 12 again UniTol. Less friendly AI's this time, but no early war as I was able to develop the way a want to as UniTol with a few new systems and quick SuperComps. Sometimes early pressure is so bad that I can't risk going quickly for this great upgrade in research as I need ships and chem tech to improve missiles. Another issue with UniTol is that you have bigger planets due to being tolerant. This should be a good thing, but you need to feed everyone. Soil Enrichment helps but that is a 900 cost tech in Ice-X.

    Anyhow, I had to fight some prior to being able to MIRV Mercs so I used Nukes as I have so often. All was OK and eventually I got to Adv Chem I and MIRVed Zeons and took over most of the left side and bottom sides of the galaxy. I never bothered with Orion as I couldn't pull enough ships away from the front and I won in the GC T277pw.

    Well now I just had to prove to myself that I could beat Ice-X 13 as Repulsive. I could beat earlier versions playing Repulsive but felt it was easier to not choose this and take 9 other negs instead.

    Game 13 UniTol usual stuff and LG/Rep for my 21 negs. My PW start is deep in the upper left corner. Hmm...and without anything but basic fuel cell tech I meet the Bears far to close for comfort T53! This won't be fun and it wasn't! Things look OK for monster planets and afterwards my Monster FF's fought some of the Bulrathi attacks. I thought I'd be OK, but even with two MIRV Merc BB's I couldn't crack Bear SB defenses as they'd added a MB and always had a couple defensive ships.

    This didn't foretell success as I need to do more to hurt them than just glass a pop 1 planet of their's. Yep...T202 and I cannot save my systems as their ships have high end beams already. I resign in disgrace noting that from the tone of relations other AI's are going to help pick my bones clean. A-armor didn't save me, as too many and too powerful Bear ships.

    Game 14 lets try UniTolRepulsive again. A decent start in the upper right and some room as no AI is basically super close. Monster FF's take an Aomeba system. This used to require just 5 FF's with 2 MIRV nukes (need BP's). But now with the "meeb" having 600 hp it seems that I need to self-destruct a FF to finish it off so this time I just made 6 FF. I had rebuilt my SB (sold T1 as I usually do) and had other SB's built so when I met the AI(s) I was able to crank out 3 MIRV Nuke BB's and the AI's weren't keen to attack.

    Hmm Psilon in the game but not near me. This often means a higher tech level for AI's since they'll spread their techs around. No Human in the game however. I've noted the the combo of Human and Psilon results in a very high tech level for most AI's. I guess they both research and both spread techs around with the Human's charisma helping with trades.

    I felt I was going to win the game and when the Cat's DOW'd me I was ready as I'd research the 4500 cost chem tech and crushed them with a few MIRV Merc BB's. No nearby AI was strong at all, and once I had MIRV Zeons and some GC techs I was often taking more than 1 planets at a times from AI's. I took Orion T245 and won in the GC with just 2/3 votes for myself T247.

    OK I can occasionally win as Repulsive so onward to v13a finally.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
  17. Rocco.40

    Rocco.40 Chieftain

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    Thanks for you stories Neilkaz, they are always a pleasure to read and inspire to continue development on the mod!

    So here's a small update to ice 13b:
    - Scout Lab tech moved to Field of Capsule Construction (survival and troop pods).
    - Damper Field now kills 80% of troops that attempt to board via Transporters.
    (help mentioned 95% in ice 13a, but actual value was 75%)
    - Adjusted Random Events. Some can now happen from t40 (10 turns earlier):
    computer virus, donation, earthquake, population boom and unstable wormhole.
    (Note that in earlier ice updates some very nasty events have been pushed back, for example spacetime anomaly only from t150 instead of t50.)
    - AI should now better assess enemy fleet strength that has Black Hole Generators.
    - Renamed COMMON.CFG to ICEMOD.CFG
     
  18. Rocco.40

    Rocco.40 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    A new year, a fresh ICE!
    • Home World system now guaranteed to have minimum 3 planets instead of 2.
    • Increased research cost of Tech Fields 'Hyper Dimensional Physics' and 'Temporal Fields' from 10,000 to 15,000.
    • Buggy Food Replicators tech was removed from Tech Tree.
    • Plasma Cannon damage decreased to 6-24 (was 7-28).
    • Assault Shuttle Bays cost increased to 20 (15).
    • Bomber Bays space reduced to 40 (45).
    • Heavy Fighter Bays space reduced to 50 (60).
    • Graviton Bomb is now called as such in Ship Design, Ship Info & Combat.
    • Quantum Detonator space decreased to 2,3,5,10,20,50 (was 3,4,7,15,30,75).
    • New bomb damages vs prev. ICE () and classic ones []:
    Nuclear 3-12 ( 4-16) [ 3-12]
    Fusion 6-24 ( 8-24) [ 4-24]
    Graviton 12-48 (24-48) [ 5-40]
    Neutronium 20-80 (48-72) [10-60]​
     
  19. zantan

    zantan Chieftain

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    I just installed this mod with MOO from gog.com and the 1.50.7.2 patch and have been noticing some odd behavior. In one game as soon as I met another race every star system became explored, and in another it appears that I am getting every tech like I'm creative - whenever I research a tech each tech option is announced and I'm pretty sure I didn't trade for the extra ones. Does anyone have any idea why this might be happening?
     
  20. Rocco.40

    Rocco.40 Chieftain

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    1. every star system became explored: i would guess you got a leader with Galactic Lore skill, like Kronos?
    2. getting every tech like being Creative: sounds strange, can you provide a savegame?
     

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