[MoO] ICEMOD: mod design, race design, strategies

[neilkaz]

You can do what ever you want to with that aspect of GUI.

I have a nice IceX v10h game going, again with my Feudal Balanced super race.

T218pw and this time the AI's I met early were friendly and trade treaty income and tech helped nicely as have some decent leaders. Gnols never liked me and suffered after DOWing me and now those nasty Cats have DOWed me for the 2nd and final time.

Psilon in the game seems to mean high tech levels and many techs for all AI's but somehow there aren't yet many spy techs out there and my spies have stolen stuff from enemies, whereas my ground troops in spite of many conquests (some Gnol planets revolted a couple of times) haven't had as much luck as usual in finding new technology.

I am dominant but not crushing yet. I think I can take Orion in 20 turns or maybe a few turns earlier.

Klackon is the master AI race here. Imp2 (Imp1 also looks to be awesome for them).

 

[Rocco.40]

Just decoded this block, which determines race interrelations.
Green blocks: likes another race, can be +12 or +24
Gold blocks: dislikes another race, can be -12 or -24.
Relations are symmetrical with the exception of Bulrathi-Meklar.
This might be a bug.
Some relations are different than MOO1.

 

[neilkaz]

Interesting stuff!

OK my game should be won in the next GC. I Just missed a win a couple turns prior to T231pw when I killed the Guardian with BB's with Maulers and Phasors.

T236 saw me capture 6 Antaran ships and 3 didn't explode so I am loaded with Antaran techs.

T240 and I've finished conquering those bad Kitties. I went for the Cyber Security net rather than Galactic Cyber net so my spies can safeguard these goodies and so I can see my hot looking red-headed spies in their blue and purple stealth suits reporting back with successful steals. (Yeah I usually play as Elerian pic).

One thing to mention is that attempts to play anything but real super races have been met with many problems. I end up maybe 10 or even 15 turns behind in the critical stages around T100pw and a couple dozen turns after and often end up attacked hard with AIs dictating the wars and play rather than myself.

Here in IceX the AI's have tremendous tech levels and are able to fight back and I lose some ships.

A win here as the GC came up on T255 and I had well over 800 pop and was spread all over the galaxy. I probably could've gone to Antares had I wanted to as well.

 

[Rocco.40]

Just had a T70 win in ICEMOD (not x) on SMALL/AVG/8/AVG, with a Feudal blitz race. Just as a first benchmark. (haven't played a full blitz on a small map in a long time / since I started modding).
Game was full of inefficiencies. But it was fun!

In ICE especially the first race is tough, due to strong star base, +50 computer and nukes with less hit points, which causes a heavy delay compared to classic MOO2. First race can be conquered before T35. Early Fighter Garrison is a next factor that slows things down. And due to late (unreachable in blitz) Fighters tech, if an opponent gets ECM, it gets really hard. Mrrshan are a tough race to take on early, as their attack bonus enables them to shoot down many nukes.

edit: Playing with a Feudal race that has only 25% discount on ship building cost.
edit2: A Star Base can be taken down with 3 Cruisers with Extended Fuel Tanks and 8 nukes each. If you leave out the tanks, 12 nukes will fit, but you need to consider range (build Outposts or get Deuteriums) and the fact that a Cruiser with 12 nukes is more expensive than one with 8 and the tanks.

edit June 16: Got this down to 60 turns (ICEx 10j).

 

[Rocco.40]

I went for the Cyber Security net rather than Galactic Cyber net so my spies can safeguard these goodies

> This was exactly the reasoning to put a +20 spy in that field - choice is: do you want to go for more tech or protect current tech.

 

[neilkaz]

> This was exactly the reasoning to put a +20 spy in that field - choice is: do you want to go for more tech or protect current tech.

Of course this also means that your spies, if needed and desired (you may have enemy(s) with techs you'd like to have but with poor spy defense) can steal more techs as well. A +20 increase in spying makes a big difference in whether stolen enemy techs can be had so while your research isn't as good as building the cybernet, some helpful techs may be stolen.

 

[Rocco.40]

yes, very true, as enemies might have techs that you desire and are not able to research.

 

[Rocco.40]

Testing the repair rate of a Cybernetic ship:

Classic MOO2 is bugged for the internal systems repair rates.

Cybernetic should give 10% repair of armor & structure and 5% for internal systems.
While the armor & structure repair rate works fine, the internal repair rate is 5% only for star bases.
Ships get less repair due to the fact that the ships' drive is only counted for 50% in the formula.

In ICE an adjustment has already been made, but am trying to find the location of the bug in formula.
(good exercise in coding)

[edited]

 

[Rocco.40]

ICE 10i is up; new website live.
Big change to the Feudal government as discussed earlier in this thread.
For all changes, check:
ICEMOD_readme.txt

 

[Rocco.40]

And today a player pointed out a way to win the ICE 10i IMPx H/8/AVG in less than 100 turns!
Received savegames as evidence.
Making heavily use of Outposts and sabotage, playing with the new Feudal race!
(with the old Feudal he would have been faster even).

 

[neilkaz]

And today a player pointed out a way to win the ICE 10i IMPx H/8/AVG in less than 100 turns!
Received savegames as evidence.
Making heavily use of Outposts and sabotage, playing with the new Feudal race!
(with the old Feudal he would have been faster even).

What exact race did he use (all specs please)?

Thx .. neilkaz ..

 

[Rocco.40]

Hey.

race spec was as follows:
Feudal
Food+1
Spy+30
Low-G
Large,Rich HW
Telepathic
Trans-Dimensional.

Game 1 finished T91 and Game 2 T98.
Same strategy was followed for both: Build a Cruiser with Extended Fuel Tanks and Outposts as needed to reach an opponent and building a mass of spy's then put them sabotaging until Star Base destroyed, then hovering over the planet with a nuke Cruiser only accompanied by a few empty scouts. And continue like that all the way.

Pretty cool tactic to use the big +40 spy bonus in such a way, and very little actual battles took place!

 

[Rocco.40]

Goodday All !!

Today it is 4 months ago that I made ICE available for download.
That was version 8.
Clearly remember thinking that 8 was an almost finished product.
With the arrival of 10j yesterday, I have launched 15 versions since

Now I am again convinced that 10j is balanced and my focus is shifting from balancing to A.I. coding and GUI stuff.
As getting a grip on this is much harder than finding single offsets, it might take some time before i get some breakthroughs here.
Some things that I am after:

AUTOBUILD function.
I suspect AUTOBUILD could be the same code as the computations made for A.I. colony build needs.
This type of coding is hard to understand. (remember the MOO2 source code is not available so everything needs to be done with disassembly and HEX editing).
It would be so sweet I this function could be improved.
Top priority.

A.I. Personality
I have decoded a big part of A.I. relations modifiers (6 different personalities have 6 different sets of values here) but I still have to get a basic understanding of the values of these figures.
I would like a.i. to be less inclined to give in to demands (surrender system, surrender technologies) when you have a big fleet.
Nice to have.

Find a.i. research priority / tech list.
Make a.i. research more balanced and more into Force Fields, Sociology, Biology.
A breakthrough here would instantly make Impossible 1 level more Impossible
Important.

Find a.i. ship build priority.
Should build a little less Transports in early game.
Should not go full Trade Goods to sustain fleet before certain research level is achieved.
A breakthrough here would instantly make Impossible 1 level more Impossible
Equally Important.

GUI stuff
* Info on New Colony pop-up should display building maintenance cost also for Tolerants.
* Info on Marines pop-up should list Powered Armor bonus.
* Find way to show current diplomacy bonus (like spy bonus).

Other Stuff
* Find + Fix the techlist for the PostWarp game setting.
The modded techtree causes it to not give the correct techs.
* Adjust FEUDAL Research treaty malus to match Research penalty.
Found code, but difficult to interpret; will take time. Leaving it as is also option, as Feudal is still a very playable government.
* Find out why some a.i. development is hurt by Growth % that is not -50, 0, 50 or 100.
* Shorten time that a colony can be frozen in time anomaly. Ensure HW cannot be frozen.
* Increase Monster events (eels!).
* Mixed Races penalty should not apply to Democracy? Not sure if we need this one.
* Automated Repair Unit should be an achievement like Adv. Damage Ctrl rather than a special.

And that is quite a list, let me know if you feel something needs to be added.

 

[Rocco.40]

Tip of the day:
When you are in colony screen or colony build screen, you can cycle between all your planets by using "<" and ">" keys.

 

[neilkaz]

Hi Rocco,

I think you've got things just about right with 10j! I'll try a game tomorrow as I think I have time.

You nerfed spy blitzing I think and have more balance.

 

[Rocco.40]

looking fwd to story!


Am close to finalizing an experimental minimalistic mod:
ICECOLD.EXE
---------------------------------------------------------------------
- Optimized for games in Huge Galaxies.
- More empty star systems and less planets per system.
- No wormholes, no unprotected splinters, less other special planets.
- Outpost Ship costs 400 BC.
- Thorium Fuel Cells have 18 instead of unlimited range.
> as the help file is shared, tech info will still say 'unlimited'.
- Game starts without Star Base on home colony, it needs to be built!
- Starting Population 6.
- Starting Money 10.
- Starting Command Points 5.
- Regular ICEMOD races.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
ICECOLD.EXE can be run from the MOO2 ICE folder.
It will be part if the next ICE package.
(ICEMOD and ICEMODx will be nearly unchanged)

 

[<Nexus>]

Well... I had no time yet to try your mod, but I will for sure
I really like the changes listed
Especially like the idea of stronger Guardian and Antarans. Teleporting Star Fortress is a great idea


A problem: Running Icemod.exe under WinXp there was no sound. Is there a way to solve that?

Other: Are you planning / is it possible to give different races different starting bonuses?
Like:
Meklars starting with Android Workers tech, Darloks starting with 1 or 2 free spies, Cryslons start with owning a Space crystal in their system, Humans start with a random leader, Gnolams with extra gold, etc. Is it doable?

Also: Are you planning to improve space monsters with unique abilities? (if possible)

 

[Rocco.40]

A problem: Running Icemod.exe under WinXp there was no sound. Is there a way to solve that?

Are you using DOSBox? If you use DOSBox you will get proper sound.
Here are some pointers: http://masteroforion2.blogspot.nl/2006/05/dosbox-guide.html

Other: Are you planning / is it possible to give different races different starting bonuses?
Like:
Meklars starting with Android Workers tech, Darloks starting with 1 or 2 free spies, Cryslons start with owning a Space crystal in their system, Humans start with a random leader, Gnolams with extra gold, etc. Is it doable?

Nice idea, will keep it in mind. At the moment, I don't know if this can be done.

Also: Are you planning to improve space monsters with unique abilities? (if possible)

Monster can be modded with other weapons/specials. What do you have in mind exactly?

 

[Rocco.40]

ICEMOD 10k is here, including the new ICECOLD.EXE.

As described above, it is an experimental mod intended to give a new MOO2 playing experience.
Instead of the lush ICEMOD galaxies, there is less to colonize, longer travel distances due to empty systems and hopping around using Outpost Ships is more expensive.
I have had some fun games already!

10k is the last update for the summer.
Enjoy playing!

 

[<Nexus>]

Are you using DOSBox? If you use DOSBox you will get proper sound.

No, just running the EXE.
Okay, I will try dosbox

Monster can be modded with other weapons/specials. What do you have in mind exactly?

I was tinkering some of my saves with COrion to strengthen the Guardian (and/or multiply it). I also changed the monsters in a way I felt appropriate. I think I gave the Dragon Plasma Web, but don't remember more. It was so long ago