[MoO] ICEMOD: mod design, race design, strategies

[neilkaz]

OK good to see 10k and that things are locked in stone now so we can play and evaluate!

I should be able to do a game this upcoming holiday weekend.

 

[neilkaz]

My IceX 10k game is almost finished. I used UniProd+2Food+1ArtiLRHWGC+10 with negs LG and Rep since Feudal has been nerfed somewhat.

I started near the upper left corner and in good position to expand into the corner. Key looking stars along the way were 7 parsecs distant from others so I needed D-cells to scout them. This resulted in an early meeting with Darloks to my right. Their spies are still nasty but less of an issue with +20 spying than +30.

I sent a BB with extended cells to kill the eel guarding the system in the corner. I colonized that and had 4 new systems and then teched to Z-armor around T115pw and launched a nice attack on the Darloks. They were finished off on T151. The IMP3 version of their colonists coupled with my Uni Govt ment a true super race to spread around!

Next was to continue into Coid skies towards and along the right edge. They were finished off on T192. Humans decided to jump me from below in the galaxy around that time but couldn't hurt me. My ground troops didn't do so well stealing techs until late in the Coid war, but my spies occasionally brought back useful stuff from various races.

As I geared up for Human conquest, now adding some Graviton Beam ships to my fleet of missile ships, the Bears from the bottom center jumped on me on T200pw followed by Lizards from the bottom right corner. I didn't have enough ships or planetary defenses to hold every newly conquered system and was slowed down for a while. Stolen missile base tech along with stolen Pulsons saved a couple of planets and helped reduce a nasty Bear fleet.

Several Sakkra revolts slowed me even though I had Powered Armor now. On T221 I was able to get enough capture ships together to capture the entire Antaren raiding fleet and only 2 of the 6 blew up. The last Sakkra world was taken on T223 and instantly clobbered by a new Bear fleet. I took Orion on T224 and now had a huge assortment of high end techs and Xenon techs. I was also expanding like crazy in safe areas with a goal of soon winning in the GC and ending this romp.

On T227 the GC came up and alas, I had only 82 of the needed 86 votes to win.

Onward to T255 and I am beating down the Bears and Gnols whereas I haven't fought with the Mecklar yet. Humans were eliminated by me T237. I will have at least 80% of the next GC vote which should've come up by now.

EDIT: LOL as I just spent at least 15 minutes on T255 micro'ing everyone of my 60+ planets to include just discovered Galactic Cybernet. I then click next turn and up comes the GC for a win with 140 out of 172 votes.

 

[Rocco.40]

LOL about the 15mins MICRO!

IMP3 Darloks are Tolerant, P+2 very nice to capture early!
What fleet did you bring to capture Orion?

 

[neilkaz]

LOL about the 15mins MICRO!

IMP3 Darloks are Tolerant, P+2 very nice to capture early!
What fleet did you bring to capture Orion?

You can't play this game on Huge if you can't handle micro! I nice improvement to MOO2 would be the ability to put a building into all build cues and with a couple of selections about where to put it in the cues. ie select to put it at the front of all cues on planets that have a factory. Select to put it in the front of all cues that currently aren't making a ship etc.

In Ice, there are more planets than in Vanilla so late in the game more micro. I don't mind however, and having more planets is also more interesting and gives the human player more options.

I sent my nearby fleets to Orion. I think I had several Heavy Graviton Beam BB but they didn't do much real damage to the Guardian's shield. The damage was done by Pulson Missile BB with 4 EMG's in the last missile bay. I might have had about 7 or 8 of them.

I started a new game with the same race, this time starting along the left edge somewhat below center. This time I am taking a somewhat different path thru the Chem techs and stressing them early. Psilons spawned too close for comfort and settled towards what is supposed to be my corner. There's one way to deal with this and that is attack.

Noting that it is more than 6 parsecs to Mentor from the system they colonized closest to it and noting the higher costs of extended fuel tanks and outposts now, I decided that I needed I-cells.

Chem techs started with Trit Armor and then Pol Proc and then I-cells and my attack started with a MIRV Nuke BB with some FF's for support on T100pw. I got slowed up at Mentor as they now had Heavy Armor and some planet defenses so I waited for my 2nd BB and eliminated these guys on T134 and hopefully before they'd spread too much high tech around to others. Having Trit armor instead of cardboard may have saved a ship or two.

Next I figured I could be at peace for a while so I sent both BB to kill a hydra guarding a great system with an arti planet (got two nice techs) and a Huge UR planet and others. In spite of Trit Armor, I lost a BB to the Hydra! But that system is worth it.

I am continuing on thru Chemistry. Note that I took I-cells so I don't have Atmos Ren.

To bring my pollution under control, Nano Disassemblers which have been boosted in ICE helped. Next I took the very nice tech, Microlite Construction which being Uni results in +1.5 per worker. Now I am researching A-armor to solve all my armor problems and to provide a huge upgrade to Trit. I expect that after I get A-armor I will attack an AI in force.

EDIT: A-armor research and Chem techs completed on T190!. This is 6 techs above the basic Nuke Missile tech so it didn't provide any more size and cost reduction.

 

[mikeva1]

I DL'ed ICEMOD 10k yesterday and started a game. I have had the game lock twice in less then 10 minutes. I had to re-boot my computer both times since it also disabled ctrl-alt-del.

huge galaxy, easy level (to get used to the mod), custom race.

 

[Rocco.40]

Hi, i can try to help out if you can share more info like; operating system, do you use dosbox and what version, what version of orion did you play before ice, did you buy game on gog.com or own install?
Tx
Ps. Ice can occasionaly crash, similarly to the latest official patch, which still had a few bugs. But i haven't heared a report of a full system freeze before.

 

[mikeva1]

Win XP, no dos box, self install, updated to 1.31 and 1.4(b24?), used GOG as the base (this time since I did not have to dig out my original disks). I have played 1.31, 1.40, some other mods, GOG.com setup (sometimes I use dosbox) (my original disk is scratched up - it will install but not play the game - loading the full game into the MOO2 game folder takes care of that) Did I leave anything out?

Hope that was everything.

Now it has crashed 3 times running in less then 5 minutes. I had just taken Orion and it IMMEDIATELY crashed while going to the planet screen.from the combat screen. op.Went straight back to my desktop.

 

[Rocco.40]

Thanks for the info.
The GOG version in essence is the same as a clean install from disk that is patched to version 1.40. Only the way DOSBox is configured is different.

Would really advise to run the game using DOSBox.

I have not tested the mod running 'natively' in WinXP, but i do remember experimenting with this a couple of years back, long before i started modding.
Back then, after some tries i quickly turned to Dosbox and game runs as stable as it gets.

My readme provides basic install instructions as well as a link to a dosbox guide for MOO2:
http://moo2mod.com/ICEMOD_readme.txt

Let me know if you get it to work or need more help.

EDIT: assuming you were running an ICEMOD.exe and not ORION95.exe

 

[mikeva1]

usingt dosbox worked. I do not normally use it on my laptop because it lags too badly at times - like in combat. I do not have that problem on my desktop though.

Has anyone thought of creating a database of all of the MOO2 files with a very brief - under 10 word - deescription of what is is/does/whatever along with a list of any programs/utilities/etc that can be used to open them/modify them/etc? Oh yes, and put it up somewhere for all modders to use?

Example: Racestuf.lbx stores racial mods. pickhack.exe will open and modify racial pick costs.
What does everyone think? Not the best description "stores racial mods" was the best could come up with on the spur of the moment.

 

[Rocco.40]

usingt dosbox worked

Cool!

Has anyone thought of creating a database of all of the MOO2 files with a very brief - under 10 word - deescription of what is is/does/whatever along with a list of any programs/utilities/etc that can be used to open them/modify them/etc? Oh yes, and put it up somewhere for all modders to use?

Well, i have thought about it, and I am sure some other modders too, but it is quite some work and the benefits are rather low.
If you want to know more about MOO2 modding, http://www.spheriumnorth.com/orion-forum/nfphpbb/viewforum.php?f=11 is the place to start.

 

[neilkaz]

@ mikeva1

Glad that you can play ICEMOD now. You'll find, once you move up in difficulty that you'll get a far better fight and challenge from the AI's than in vanilla.

My second X10k game is going well but slower than my first. I'd played passively after taking out the nearby Psilons early and had A-Armor on T190pw so now it was time to get back to war. I had to plan what to attack with and decided to go for capturing AI ships since they had many weapons techs that I didn't so I could gain those techs by scrapping captured ships (plus the money is useful). As I was getting ready to jump the nearby Gnols on T200 using Neutron Blasters and Transporters, the Tri's decided on T197 to send 3 BB to attack my home world in spite of what seemed to be very good relations.

So it was war with them. It wasn't fun when a long Hyperspace flux happened since they could move and I couldn't but I managed to either destroy or capture many of their vessels. As usual the AI's have a very high tech level and they had A-Armor no later than T215. Neutron Blaster BB couldn't do much of anything to 800 HP planetary defenses but captured ships with Plasma Torps and later Plasma Cannons could. I also made a couple of bombers as I had A-M bombs. Bombers need to have Aug Engines and be able to take serious damage to survive to get the the planet quickly.

Tri's had spread all around, but were finished off on T247. One turn later almost the entire human fleet arrived at what had been the final Tri system and since my fleet was there, I couldn't resist capturing all the human ships, essentially ruining their fleet and getting some more weapons techs.

T261 now and the Humans are almost gone and the Gnols, what they strongly dislike me, haven't been keen to start a war yet. I am making some MIRVed Pulson BB with EMG's in the last bay to go after the Guardian soon. The Bears have already visited Orion and I don't want them to come back with a better fleet to take it.

By researching 1 Hyper-Adv Chem tech I was able to significantly reduce size and cost for my Pulsons. Now a heavily defended BB can carry 17 MIRV Pulsons followed by 5 EMG MIRV ones, rather than 12 and 4. I hope to take Orion by T270.

 

[Rocco.40]

It wasn't fun when a long Hyperspace flux happened

Yeah .. vividly remember that happening to me last time with the Tri's involved, it did not end so well for me

I also made a couple of bombers as I had A-M bombs.

First time you write about using bombers. (well in ICE at least) With AM bombs and Augs these can be quite potent indeed. Did you research them instead of Shuttles?

I couldn't resist capturing all the human ships

ALL ships! Ok, what size fleet did they have?
Did you use transporters / shuttles / tractor beam?

By researching 1 Hyper-Adv Chem tech I was able to significantly reduce size and cost for my Pulsons.

And this 1st level Hyper-Adv is now 5000 RP cheaper, which should help.

Sounds like an interesting game!

 

[neilkaz]

I have almost never used Bombers. In general, missiles do a fine job of clobbering planetary defenses prior to high end beams. The issue with missiles is that you may hit the planet too hard and destroy buildings and kill colonists that you want to capture.

The issue with bombers is getting them to survive to get to attack the planet. I much prefer missiles, since they can attack ships as well, but here I'd refitted my missile ships to capture enemy ships and hadn't expected to run into A-armor so fast. A-M bombs were obtained from a scrapped enemy ship. My spies have stolen a few techs as well, having been sent to AI's worlds in hopes of getting those AI's to remove their 30+ spies.

Humans had 9 ships, mostly BB's. I captured a couple with shuttles as I had a couple shuttle DD's but more were captured with transporters. I almost never use tractors. Just knock down a shield with beams or other weapon and then get close enough and transport in. I had developed a big GC advantage so I didn't even need Neutron Blasters to kill the crew and had switched over to more powerful Grav Beam ships.

Game is interesting and the AI can hit back at this level and I've lost quite a few ships. I will follow the my usual plan to end dominant games in the G.C. by expanding like crazy while conquering with transport ships to get a huge pop.

EDIT: GC came up on T292 and I won it with about 76% of my own votes. I'd eliminated 4 races and was a couple turns away from finishing off the Coids. I was just a few turns away from producing my first DoomStar which would have great defenses and 130 regular Plasma Cannons enhanced by HEF.

 

[mikeva1]

I have a (slightly) "newer" computer and I am looking forward to using Icemod on it. iI am waiting to see how reliable it is before swapping out my larger disk drive.

3 of my last 5 games I have played ended up with me building up my research so high that no one could keep up with me. Then I built a fleet of Titans with one Stellar Converter each and wiped everyone out.
Best anyone else had might have been Mauler weps in a BB

 

[Rocco.40]

3 of my last 5 games I have played ended up with me building up my research so high that no one could keep up with me.

ok, let us know if you can still outtech a.i. in ICE

also just to highlight once more: there are 3 exe's in the package, providing some difference in game play: the regular icemod.exe features enhanced a.i. opponents and galaxy maps with more planets and slightly less wormholes that the classic MOO2. Then there is the ICEMODx which Neilkaz plays - see the many stories above and earlier in this thread. ICEx has even stronger a.i.'s and most of them have growth bonusses, so this is a big jump in competition coming from orion.exe. Also ICEx galaxies have even more and better planets and less wormholes than regular ICE. Recently I have added icecold.exe to the pack, which is a bit of an experiment and features a very low number of planets and many systems might just be empty, seriously hindering early contact. Also you start without a Star Base and only 6 pop. for if you like a minimalistic start.

 

[Rocco.40]

Have just completed an ICE game in the 'Post Warp' setting.

Post Warp was introduced in the 1.40 fan patch and is an average start + all up to 250 RP techs already researched. As in ICE the tech tree has been altered, Post Warp is broken atm. It is not possible to research Gighter Garrison, Advanced Damage Control, Battleoids, Robotic Factory and Fast Missile Racks. Holo Simulator and Neural Scanner are available for research but should have been given at start and Missile Base and Heavy Armor are already researched but should not be.

Post Warp is not a popular game setting really but spent time yesterday to fix it anyway, coz it still can make for an interesting and somewhat faster game setting. Personally I think it is better than the Advanced game start, where you get a couple of planets and ships to begin with. In fact, I haven't tested ICE more than only the most basic checks for the advanced setting.

So now Post Warp will work again as intended - for next ICE release.

 

[Dukinson]

I've been playing MOO2 since it came out in 96. As games can take awhile I've gravitated towards faster games. Your Icecold variant is refreshing as indivual colonies hold more value and one does not spend eons managing an empire. I also like tactical combat off. However, I noticed a problem with the gameplay of this combination and your mod. One cannot make extended fuel scouts in nontactical and the icecold mod has outposts at a punishing 400 cost. I would advise this be changed as outposts used to be the only reasonably priced scouts in a game where scouting with colony ships is risky. I would agree 100 was cheap, perhaps you would consider restoring then to 200. Despite the increased fuel range of the first 2 cell types, I cannot get away from deuterium cells as it stands.

Otherwise a very impressive mod. VCD seems to be too drastic, I like how your mod keeps much of the spirit of the old game with some interesting changes to rebalance and add flavor.

Also I would ask you one more thing, Rocco. I have some more critiques to your mod but I would prefer another forum to place them. Would you send a PM to a moderator at spheriumnorth.com to activate my account with this same username? I would appreciate it.

 

[Rocco.40]

thanks for feedback!

One cannot make extended fuel scouts in nontactical and the icecold mod has outposts at a punishing 400 cost. I would advise this be changed as outposts used to be the only reasonably priced scouts in a game where scouting with colony ships is risky.

I will take a look at this.

I like how your mod keeps much of the spirit of the old game

Thanks, this is something I really kept in mind with this mod.

Would you send a PM to a moderator at spheriumnorth.com to activate my account with this same username?

Sure I could do that, but pls give me some more info, you can send a pm here if you prefer:
your username for spherium & date of registry? Sometimes it can take a while as moderator does not seem to be very active. Spherium did get 10 new members this year (last was end of June), so it is still possible to join.

 

[Dukinson]

I registered as "Dukinson" a couple weeks ago, I don't recall the exact day.

 

[Rocco.40]

-ok will ask-