Ideas for Magic

[Psychic_Llamas]

Exactly Duke. Thats what i was trying to say.

 

[Duke van Frost]

I think Mages should be able to dispel spells cast on the plot where they areand the adjacent plots. Like Supportfire every Mage should have one dispell point for each round (beginning on the start of your turn and ending on the start of your next turn).

 

[Duke van Frost]

I think per attempt. And be increased by what, in general? I wouldn´t like it that way, because I think spells should be cast succesful most of the time, would be frustrating if your spells get dispelled all of the time.

 

[Gerikes]

Lemme just ask, 'cuz I think I'm a bit confused. When you say that a wizard dispells a Shaman, do you mean that the Wizard has a chance to negate a spell casted by a Shaman, or the wizard has a chance to kill the shaman (but not kill, "dispell" the shaman)?

 

[Duke van Frost]

He has a chance to negate the spell another Magic-User just casted.

 

[Gerikes]

He has a chance to negate the spell another Magic-User just casted.

Ah. Ok. I thought you were talking about 80% chances to kill a Lvl1 Shaman every turn using "Dispel"

In any case, I agree that the chance to dispel should be pretty low, but maybe one could also increase it's chances to dispel by entering a Defensive Casting mode. Perhaps it could work like Fortify where you can increase 5% per turn you are in the Defensive Casting mode to a max?

Of course, this might promote more turtling than you probably want.

 

[Duke van Frost]

I think extra promotions for Magic Units would be better, something like PL suggested. Dispel (is this written with 1 or 2 L´s?) 1-3 which all give an extra +5% chance to dispel.

 

[Duke van Frost]

And what about implementing this thing from starcraft where you can choose your target on the square? although I don´t like it for normal combat (because it would give an advantade to the attacker and I´d like the advantage to be on the side of the Defender), this would be really good for Spells IMO.

 

[Gerikes]

And what about implementing this thing from starcraft where you can choose your target on the square? although I don´t like it for normal combat (because it would give an advantade to the attacker and I´d like the advantage to be on the side of the Defender), this would be really good for Spells IMO.

Yeah, it's one L. My bad.

The PieMenu unit-chooser is just a python CvScreen that I've put together. It's also in GerikSpells. The big disadvantage to it is that:

1.) It's a pain to make and debug.
2.) You don't have all the info of the units on the screen.

Probably a less flashy, but more traditional approach would be a popup, as in the sniper mod, or here. These are MUCH easier to create, and all the info is readily available. Less flashy, but gets the job done.

 

[Duke van Frost]

Doesn´t really matter to me how it looks (as long as it is not all crappy), but it would be nice if one could choose the exact target of his spell from the stack he is casting it on.

 

[Duke van Frost]

Fine with me, do as you please - as long as you´re going to implement this feature im happy.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Ok then, so far we have decided (IIRC) that all magic users can dispel. but units lower in the tech tree have a lower chance to dispel. ie the Shaman has less chance to dispell that a wizard does.
also, magic uses that are from a higher tech level to another magic user have a greater chance of dispelling the weaker mage. ie shaman and a wizard cast a spell at a wizard. the wizard has a greater chance at dispelling the shaman than the wizard.
Magic users get 3 promotions, Dispel I, II and III, which increases the base dispel % y 5% per promotion.
Magic users can enter a magical fortified mode, where thier dispell chance increases like normal defence, but to a lower maximum.

is that all?

 

[Duke van Frost]

Magic users can enter a magical fortified mode, where thier dispell chance increases like normal defence, but to a lower maximum.

I`m against that part, would make the dispel-probability too high, when 2 or three Mages are fortified in a city (I know that they wouldn´t get the city defense bonus for dispel ).

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

it wouldnt stack though, only up to a maximum of, say 40-50%. and each individual unit would have to do the mgical fortify for it to affect them.

 

[Gerikes]

it wouldnt stack though, only up to a maximum of, say 40-50%. and each individual unit would have to do the mgical fortify for it to affect them.

I kinda agree with Duke on this.

But on the other hand, I'm not sure if I would like playing a game where you always have a chance to dispell. It just seems to me that the user casting an attack spell is strategically disadvantaged simply because the other player just has these units, and as a defensive player besides walking your units around you can't really affect the outcome. I think that there should be a little more strategy involved if you want to actually dispell something. How about this:

Perhaps making it so that the only time you have a chance to dispell is while you're in this sort of defensive casting mode. The defensive casting mode doesn't add bonuses to your chances, but just makes it possible. Perhaps something like (and these numbers are tweakable):

• Each unit has a base 10% chance to dispell.
• You can get promotions where your base chance of dispell gets raised 5%.
• You have a bonus 5% chance to dispell for each level higher than the caster you are (no penalties).
• If you gain enough dispell promotions, you might be able to gain a promotion that is higher levels where you have chances to dispell without having to enter defensive casting mode, although you might get some penalty for doing it.

So, say a unit who's gained four dispell promotions and has a 30% base chance to dispell while in defensive casting mode. If it is 2 levels higher than an enemy unit, this gives it a 40% chance.

When this unit attains the promotion gaining a perpetual chance to dispel, then they can be walking around without using defensive casting mode and still hold a 20% chance to dispel.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Sound more than a compromise to me. I like it. Exspecially if we can tweak it after playtest the same way as your support fire

 

[Duke van Frost]

That´s just perfect Gerikes, I love this idea of yours, really adds some stragtegy.

And the percentages sound fine to me, The "Uber-Dispel" promotion is also very interesting (we need some promotions just for magicusers only)

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Love the compromise Gerikes it sounds awsome.

 

[Gerikes]

I'm all for that idea!
Also, we should add buildings to cities that increase the dispell chance like a wizards tower or something like that.

That sounds good! That would probably lead to a good wonder that builds a wizard tower in every city. Or even a wonder that gives a chance to dispell % on all of the player's plots.

Now, here's my question. Do these chances stack, or do you just run through each unit? So, if two units are in defensive casting mode and the area that their dispel covers both include a certain plot, would a spell cast on that plot's chance to dispel be the sum of the two, or would it just check each unit individually for whether they successfully dispel?

 

[Ploeperpengel]

I support that. No stack. This could easily get misused by players trying to make cities immune to magic. And reusing working systems for other purposes seems also better to me where it's possible- less to worry about.