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Ideologies revealed

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Optimizer, May 17, 2013.

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Which ideology seems strongest?

  1. Autocracy

    46 vote(s)
    28.0%
  2. Freedom

    61 vote(s)
    37.2%
  3. Order

    57 vote(s)
    34.8%
  1. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

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    I did a bit of research on Wikipedia and besides the Hero of the Soviet Union award, which was awarded for bravery, i.e. soldiers, cosmonauts, explorers and the like, there was also a Hero of Socialist Labor award with the same status which was awarded to civilians. So it could well be that the Hero of the People is for all Great People. Doesn't make me particularly enthusiastic about having two tenets with exactly the same effect though.
     
  2. janboruta

    janboruta Artistriarch

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    Autocracy has Gunboat Diplomacy for diplomatic victory.
     
  3. Arachnofiend

    Arachnofiend Perturbed Pugilist

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    Indeed, many of the greatest works of literature of the past 100 years have been born from minds that have grown sour to the institutions that raised them.

    I'm still desperately holding out for some modern era great works of literature. Ideological warfare would simply not be complete without Sinclair Lewis laughing in the face of the Pulitzer committee or Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn being heralded as a national hero for bringing home a Nobel Prize only to be scorned for his anti-Soviet text once people started to actually read his work.
     
  4. Knut_Are_M

    Knut_Are_M Prince

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    Autocracy seems very nice. lots of happiness that can be taken as first tier and second tier. Lackluster Third tier option, but i suppose total war is very good.

    Autocracy are geared 95% for war and Growth. Nice pick to take if you have happiness problems.

    I wonder why autocracy happiness picks give twise as much happiness per building as in order or freedom.
    Also does happiness from defensive buildings in Autocracy mean that it is gone from honor? Or does honor still have happiness from defensive buildings and it stacks?
     
  5. Veneke

    Veneke King

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    Poor phrasing on my part, you need to read the bit in parentheses to catch my meaning.

     
  6. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

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    The buildings that give happiness for Autocracy you typically don't build in every city, the buildings that give happiness for Freedom and Order you do often build in every city.

    My guess is that happiness from defensive buildings is gone from Honor, but we haven't seen anything of the initial policy trees yet.
     
  7. Arachnofiend

    Arachnofiend Perturbed Pugilist

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    To be fair, defensive buildings are prioritized by puppets because they're free. I think Autocracy promotes a wide puppet empire with a few core cities while Order wants you to annex everything.
     
  8. Martinus

    Martinus Emperor

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    Isn't this appropriate, though? Democracies usually do very little of centrally planned science development - they rely mainly on R&D done by private businesses (with obvious exceptions such as the Manhattan Project). So it makes sense they would advance through cash.
     
  9. Martinus

    Martinus Emperor

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    Correct. Autocratic regimes were big on censorship and stamping out "decadent art" so they were the opposite to that. I think Futurism represents the artistical trend the guy was talking about.
     
  10. Martinus

    Martinus Emperor

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    Btw do you guys think that the ideologies system would be better if you could choose only 1 tier-3 tenet, 2 tier-2 tenets and 3 tier-1 tenets (i.e. just fill a small pyramid) than eventually be able to choose them all?
     
  11. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

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    One of the tier-3 tenets for Order gives you a free Courthouse on capture (capture, not annexation), so there is no need to puppet anything at that point really. And another tenet gives a 33% discount on buying buildings, so you want to annex those cities and kickstart them with a cheap granary and workshop, if they need that.
     
  12. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

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    You can't pick them all. There are 6 tier-2 tenets, but only 4 slots at tier-2.

    In any case, the tier-3 tenets are all strictly tied to one victory condition, so you'd only want to pick one of those. Once you pick your tier-3 tenet, there are probably only 30 or so turns left in the game, so you're never going to fill up all the tenets.
     
  13. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    Based on the amount of happiness bonuses, I suspect cold war should produce significant unhappiness to balance it out.
     
  14. Veneke

    Veneke King

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    Pretty sure you can't choose them all and maxing out would require an awful lot of culture as it's another 6 tenets. A more limited number of picks might be nice, especially if it helped create distinct divisions within the Civs of a particular ideology (without impacting on the diplomatic bonus for having the same ideology).
     
  15. Harald B

    Harald B Warlord

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    If you can get to the Tier-3 tenets in time, Freedom seems to have the advantage on Culture and Space victory while being at least as strong as the others on Diplomatic. So I have to give my vote to that.
    I wonder how the other tier-3 culture tenets will pan out. There seems to be little point to Cult of Personality, but if you initiate a world war you could end up culturally dominating your allies while physically wiping out the cultural power of the rest. Likewise Dictatorship of the Proletariat doesn't look very good globally, but provided the happiness bonuses from Socialist Realism, Young Pioneers and Academy are global I could see the combo really taking off. Though Media Culture still beats either of these roads imo.
    I have to join in the complaints about Universal Healthcare. The fact that everyone's tried it is exactly why it should not be part of any ideology. Plus the relation between the name and the in-game effect is a huge stretch at best. Perhaps they should just keep the effect in and change the name, picking a different name for the different ideologies in the process.
     
  16. wigwam

    wigwam Prince

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    I get what they're trying to do with Universal Healthcare, I think—a solid chunk of happiness (roughly 20, right, with the new national wonders?) for tall civs, presumably to offset the potential unhappiness of a Cold War situation. It would definitely be the best happiness-boosting choice in a OCC game.

    I also wouldn't say that everyone's tried it; I'd say that every developed country in the world (save one!) has it.
     
  17. ragan651

    ragan651 High Regent of Candlewick

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    Well I think the one about buying spaceship parts with great engineers is pretty strong. If I was playing for a space victory with order, I would use faith and just start stocking up on great engineers. Then hurry them all.

    The one about buying them with gold is also tempting.
     
  18. LoneRebel

    LoneRebel Emperor

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    I've noticed two clear patterns with these ideology trees, although it could be subject to change.

    First, each ideology provides a bonus to one espionage activity. Autocracy to stealing technologies, Freedom to rigging city-state elections, and Order to hunting enemy spies.

    Second, each ideology has two tenets that each cause a certain building type to grant happiness. For Autocracy it's defensive buildings and military (experience-granting) buildings. For Freedom it's commerce buildings and growth-related buildings. For Order it's production buildings and science buildings. Pretty neat.
     
  19. SMA333M

    SMA333M Warlord

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    That includes Mech Infantry ? Or just Landship/Tank/Modern Armor ?
     
  20. Seek

    Seek Deity Supporter

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    I expect a fair few. They are reducing the cost (in the rev3games video at 4:45 the player has 9 SPs with four cities and the cost for the tenth is 495 culture - according to this site the cost here would be 1720 culture in vanilla/G&K), but they're reducing culture income as well so it's difficult to judge the balance as of yet. I suspect they shifted the balance to be less exponential, which would mean fewer SPs in the early game and more in the late. It would also mean settling new cities later would be less detrimental to SP acquisition (and potentially speeding acquisition). This is a good move, imo; I never like this particular mechanic for disincentivizing expansion.
     

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