If Corporations are People

Berzerker

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Corporations kill thousands every day, and I guess we're complicit...

You know the biggest killer in the US right ? Seems odd to pick on a German corporation for emissions pollution's
Cigarettes, lack of exercise and diet (and probably lack of healthcare) leading to heart disease

As for Volkswagen on it products killing people, yeah makes eye rolling motions at the NRA
 
They are licensed to kill.
 
You know the biggest killer in the US right ? Seems odd to pick on a German corporation for emissions pollution's
Cigarettes, lack of exercise and diet (and probably lack of healthcare) leading to heart disease

As for Volkswagen on it products killing people, yeah makes eye rolling motions at the NRA


Most of us can choose whether to smoke cigarettes or exercise or not and to a large extent
what we eat, but we have very little choice about inhaling fumes from diesel cars.

And volkswagen gained market share by FRAUD claiming their cars were non polluting.
 
Most of us can choose whether to smoke cigarettes or exercise or not and to a large extent
what we eat, but we have very little choice about inhaling fumes from diesel cars.

And volkswagen gained market share by FRAUD claiming their cars were non polluting.

A point,
However you know whom pioneered this emission cheating and was caught first right ? It was GM in 1996 that cheated using emission controls and had to pay a $11 mil fine setting up more or less the standard punishment
Then Fiat, Honda, Renault and Ford were caught, followed by Volkswagon all paid fines for emissions cheating. Hopefully changes to testing will stop cheating and record fines on VW will end this practise for once and for all.

The irony is the German engineer responsible for emission cheating did not benefit from it at all in any financial way. Still at least he went to Gaol which is more then can be said for all the previous scandels
 
I'm dubious at the claims. They always say it's an estimate based on some model, but where is the actual proof? I mean by that logic, anything anyone does can lead to premature deaths. I burn off a bunch of leaves in my back yard, drive a regular gas car, eat beef cus you know cow farts produce methane, whatever, those could all lead to premature deaths. There won't ever be any proof either. You can't quantify this, and I think it's scary that scientists are trying. The whole reason they are though is money cus we need to quantify to put a number on the fines.

I think far worse is what GM did and in comparison they got a slap on the wrist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_switch_recalls
Their fault was linked directly to at least 124 deaths, and it too was known and covered up. They got fined 900 million plus they had to settle with all the victims. VW in comparison is paying over 4 billion in fines.
 
Why can't we do that? Isn't it pretty explicitly manslaughter?
 
Well corporations were put together for this exact purpose, to protect individuals from legislation. A corporation can pay it's board members millions in salaries and bonuses, then have no assets and declare bankruptcy and not pay creditors. The creditors can't come after the individuals for the money cus the legal entity that owes them is the corporation. Same deal with criminal charges, unless you have a prosecutor willing to go after the individuals and show criminal intent. I'm no lawyer, but I think it's a hard case to make. The corporate entity protects their incompetence and it's hard to prove willful criminal intent over just sheer stupidity. When it's a whole entity it's hard to blame individuals cus everyone is a little guilty, who is the most guilty and deserves jail time? I do agree in both cases there should be jail time for the managers who made the decisions, and the rank and file engineers should be investigated to see if they willfully did this or were pressured to do it to keep their jobs. If it's the latter I wouldn't blame them, but blame the management.

The GM thing is even more dubious cus the US government had bought a ton of shares in them as part of a bailout in 2009, and sold their stakes in late 2013 I believe. So only a year before this story broke the US owned a huge stake in GM. I feel like that conflict of interest drove some of their light penalties cus they wanted to save face. The bailout was already unpopular with many on the right.
 
It protects them from financial liability, I see no reason why it would protect them from criminal liability.
 
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