if I was an Isreali . . .

[Benderino]

Originally posted by lz14


I like that. When UN supports Israel it's the most credible authority, when it critisize Israel it became a corrupted body controlled by Arab majorities.

I didn't mean it like that. I meant that since the UN is generally so biased against Israel, a simple concession as this is really a big deal. It's not going to give an in to Israel if it doesn't have to, and since it gave this, it must be true.

 

[ASA Dragon]

Oh, and to stick to the original thread idea ....

If I was an Israeli, I would have a much greater love for all things, especially life. The fact that so much that I am, and hold dear, can be taken away just for being on a particular bus or at a specific cafe - Every day that I am alive would be a triumph and a celebration. I would try not to hate those that hate me, but would defend myself and those who needed to be defended. I would pray for peace, but not expect it any time soon.

I know, hokey ....

 

[lz14]

Because they are Arab countries so they should help their Arab brothers.

Why stop there. Because we are all humans shouldn't we help our brothers ?

Maybe America can afford to accept these people and not mess up its economy.

 

[Benderino]

Originally posted by aaminion00
"The Jews built Isreal, a baston of civilization and modernity in a backwards, savage region agianst all odds. They made something from nothing"

A lot of people could do that if powerful foreign goverments made the survival and prosperity of their nation one of their top priorities. Take away the money Israel recieved from the West after the first Israeli war which truly was a miracle, and Israel would have been long-dead by now.

No, the land of Israel was built up and became prosperous before 1947, during the Mandate Period.

Secondly, Israel received little aid from the West compared to how much aid the Arabs received from the Soviets, proving your statement inaccurate. The US didn't help Israel out until, IIRC, the 1973 Yom Kippur War. Before then, Israel was on its own, getting some assistance from Britain and France (both of which had little to offer at the time).

 

[lz14]

Originally posted by Benderino

I didn't mean it like that. I meant that since the UN is generally so biased against Israel, a simple concession as this is really a big deal. It's not going to give an in to Israel if it doesn't have to, and since it gave this, it must be true.

UN is "biased" AFTER they give it to Israel ok? If I hate you AFTER I helped you, you can't say it means a lot that I helped you because I used to hate you. Just a small logic error there.

 

[ASA Dragon]

Originally posted by lz14
Because they are Arab countries so they should help their Arab brothers.

Why stop there. Because we are all humans shouldn't we help our brothers ?

Maybe America can afford to accept these people and not mess up its economy.

We should help all that we can, and personally, I try every day.

 

[Benderino]

Originally posted by lz14


UN is "biased" AFTER they give it to Israel ok? If I hate you AFTER I helped you, you can't say it means a lot that I helped you because I used to hate you. Just a small logic error there.

Has the UN retracted its former resolution allowing Israel to exist? I think not. BTW, that is always a possibility.

 

[allhailIndia]

IT matters little now whether Israel "stole" or "bought" the land.

What matters now is whether they can show themselves competent to leave it for future generations

Whether it will be left as a model of democracy, human rights and freedoms in the Middle East with a reasonable level of prosperity for all or will it be a state permanently at seige with an all pervading fear and hatred which destroys the fabric of society.

I'm afraid going by current trends, the latter seems more possible unless the Israelis decide to bring peace or end up fighting into oblivion.

 

[aaminion00]

Originally posted by Benderino


No, the land of Israel was built up and became prosperous before 1947, during the Mandate Period.

Secondly, Israel received little aid from the West compared to how much aid the Arabs received from the Soviets, proving your statement inaccurate. The US didn't help Israel out until, IIRC, the 1973 Yom Kippur War. Before then, Israel was on its own, getting some assistance from Britain and France (both of which had little to offer at the time).

No. My points are still valid. If it wasn't for American aid coming to stop the Egyptian assault on Israel in the 70's I believe, Israel would be dead. Look it up, Israel had nothing in it's reserves, they got cocky and got shocked when the Egyptians put together an excellent strategy and drove them all the way back. Several other Arab countries jumped in and Israel would be nothing but a chapter in Jewish history if America hadn't decided to save their ass. As for the Arabs recieving aid from the Soviets, I already explained that to you. The Arabs are corrupt, their goverments are horrible, and they are far too backwards and fundementalist to take advantage of Western aid. What are you trying to prove from Israeli success compared to Arabic failure, that Israel had a democratic goverment and rulers more interested in the future of their nation and people than personal wealth and gain? Shocking. **** man, give Bosnia the amount of support Israel had from the west and we'd be the most powerful state in East Europe. That may be rare in the Middle East, but not in other parts of the world and many other people could have done the exact same as Israelis did in such a situation. Only a demoractic moderately minded country and people can do that. And France and Britian had little to offer you up till 1973? What about the little firepower you had in previous wars or nuclear technology, I suppose those are little things? The land of Israel was chiseled from the Arabs before 1947 setting up a climate where Hebrews could eventually succeed with the necessary resources, and much of these came from Western aid. Early Israel was not the Israel we know today and western aid is largely responsible.

 

[Double Barrel]

There are many good points in this thread, some even conflicting with each other.

The cycle of violence must stop from both sides if there is ever a chance for peace. And this is the problem, because extremist elements on both sides want the violence to continue in order to serve their own agendas.

Unfortunately, I do not believe that the extremists will ever capitulate.

Such is life.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Originally posted by aaminion00


Did I mention the Arabs? No, the Arabs goverments and leaders are far too corrupt and fundementalist to allow such progress. And your debatable point of technological and societal Israeli miracles without American help is irrelevent considering that without Western aid Israel would be dead, and Hebrews would go back to making various significant scientific developments for other people in other nations.

Israel was embargoed from buying almost any new arms right up to the 73 war. After that point, Israeli nukes made the situation hopeless for the Arabs anyways. They mostly pieced together old British tanks, and were lucky enough to have the French sell them some Mirages. Jewish scientists made the atomic bomb possible and thus had much to trade with countries like France that needed Israel's assistance in building them.

And they would be dead because the poor oppressed Arabs were trying to murder them all.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Originally posted by lz14
Because they are Arab countries so they should help their Arab brothers.

Why stop there. Because we are all humans shouldn't we help our brothers ?

You mean like the Israelis would do in a second for the Arabs if they stopped sending their children as bombs to Israels cities?

I don't think most people realize what Israel would do for real peace.

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by MrPresident

I'm sure she could think of something better to do with a banana...

Ooh matron! (etc)

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by Sobieski II


You mean sort of like the Arabs did with the vast oil revenues? Israel may not be as rich as it is today, but technologically and societally Israel would have worked miracles without Americas help

But who provided weapons, nukes and cash also?

Europeans!

 

[storealex]

Originally posted by Sobieski II
Stole? They purchased empty land from the Ottoman empire for like a 5000 percent markup.

Are you and Benderino not reading what I write? It appears not. Im not saying that the Jews Stole Israel, Im saying that the are stealing land in the West Bank by use of illegal settlements and secrurity wall.
Do you know the difference between Israel and the West Bank???
________
Avandia settlement

 

[aaminion00]

Originally posted by Sobieski II


Israel was embargoed from buying almost any new arms right up to the 73 war. After that point, Israeli nukes made the situation hopeless for the Arabs anyways. They mostly pieced together old British tanks, and were lucky enough to have the French sell them some Mirages. Jewish scientists made the atomic bomb possible and thus had much to trade with countries like France that needed Israel's assistance in building them.

And they would be dead because the poor oppressed Arabs were trying to murder them all.

I still don't see your point. So now Hebrews are responsible for making the Atomic bomb? And the way you paint the picture you'd think that the Israelis were fighting with little slings and spears against an unbeatable opressor, singlehandedly defeating the Arab world. Right.

1948 War: Miracle. Very impressive on the Israelis part and truly something to go down in military history.

1956: Britian and France help Israel in order to try and retake the Suez Canal.

1967: Israelis use superior air force to wipe out and defeat the Arabs. This air force was obtained by the French from 1950 to 1967. In fact, France had to be pressured to stop supplying Israel with aircraft in the 1967 war. So much for them being "lucky" to obtain Western arms. And I wonder if Benderino considers the core of the IAF which won the 1967 war a "small thing".

1973: Israelis get cocky, fall to a good strategy by the Egyptians. This would have been the death of Israel, but then America came in, and the rest is history.

Oh, and as for your quote about the poor opressed Arabs, please spare me. No, and I know it's hard to believe, just because I think Israel shouldn't exist doesn't mean i'm a hippie who'll fall for such simplified garbage. If you'll argue with me please use my opinions and not stereotypes of Western liberals.

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by crystal
And yes, the Arabs would have a lot of land to live in, but it doesn't give any justification for Israel to occupy Palestinian territory.

I didn't know Israel had invaded Jordan.

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by phoenix_night


Is this just an anti-Arab rant or does it have some relevance?

I dont see how you can call his statement anti-Arab. He was stating that the leaders were brainwashing the masses.

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by storealex
So Israel has decided only to keep half of they have stolen. Why should the Palestinians living under terrible conditions in the West Bank make concessions because Gaza is free?

How do you consider it theft?

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by lz14


I like that. When UN supports Israel it's the most credible authority, when it critisize Israel it became a corrupted body controlled by Arab majorities.

When has the UN supported Israel?