If we can buy hexagons...

[migkillertwo]

Then can we expect Firaxis to let civilizations negotiate borders?

 

[markieness]

Im pretty sure i read somwhere that land can be traded in diplomacy.

Dont take that for definite though, it could have just meant towns rather than land hexes.

 

[Ahriman]

I would totally expect tile ownership to be something that was tradeable through diplomacy (or demandable as peace terms or tribute!)

 

[eleazzaar]

I'm not so sure they are trying to say you can buy/sell individual hexes... that sounds more micromanagy than the stuff they have been announcing.

it does sounds like they are giving you more control over your cultural borders-- it will be interesting to see exactly what form that takes.

It would be nice if when playing a high culture civ you could avoid goading your neighboring warlike civs into attacking you, because your borders were killing their cities.

 

[chongli]

I'm not so sure they are trying to say you can buy/sell individual hexes... that sounds more micromanagy than the stuff they have been announcing.

it does sounds like they are giving you more control over your cultural borders-- it will be interesting to see exactly what form that takes.

It would be nice if when playing a high culture civ you could avoid goading your neighboring warlike civs into attacking you, because your borders were killing their cities.

Heh. When it comes down to it, the Civ series has been pretty schizophrenic when it comes to micromanagement. In the real world, presidents and emperors don't go around telling the civilians which farms to work and which ones not to (By the way, how silly is that? Building a farm and not working it! Wouldn't the fields go wild pretty quickly?). However, one thing nations do spend a great deal of timing arguing over is land claims.

There are ongoing disputes between major powers over some very tiny and "insignificant" plots of land.

 

[eleazzaar]

Heh. When it comes down to it, the Civ series has been pretty schizophrenic when it comes to micromanagement.

True. But my general impression (though i never played civ 3) is that they are becoming more conscious of micromanagement, and working harder to try to root it out. I doubt they considered it when they made Civ 1, and maybe Civ 2.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

They definitely have said that land can now be traded-though the details are still sketchy. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be done without resorting to micromanagement.

Aussie.

 

[Shurdus]

In Civ IV we can trade land. Not that the AI will ever offer you anything in terms of land... Maybe if you put an enormous amount of cultural pressure on the land. I remember being offered a city by Victoria once.

Gifting a crap city to the AI is also a known and abused system by the higher level players. So even in Civ IV we could trade land. Trading for individual tiles would be a bit tricky imo, I never read anywhere that that was possible.

 

[Rexflex]

Gifting a crap city to the AI is also a known and abused system by the higher level players. So even in Civ IV we could trade land.

Trading cities is isn't at all the same as trading land. The implications between the two are very different.

From the reports of how the AI civs will react negatively to players buying up good land, that suggests to me that any trading with the AI is likely to be a lot less open to abuse than the city trading in Civ IV. The AI will probably only agree to taking land that it thinks it needs rather than have a global "oh boy, free stuff!" point of view.

Trading for individual tiles would be a bit tricky imo,

The standard negotiating panels we are used to wouldn't be adequate, but it is quite possible to have an interface allowing the selection of tiles to trade via the map.

I never read anywhere that that was possible.

Trading of land has been briefly noted in the confirmed features post, although it isn't mentioned which source it was from:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=355156

Other Information

Trading items and land

 

[Shurdus]

'Land' in that sense may as well mean cities. I agree that the two are distinct entities, but one must not forget that the person who wrote it up may very well mean one thing and say another since because this person did not think it would be a source of confusion, because of misunderstandings or whatever other reason we might come up with. I would not readily assume land may be traded apart from the cities unless it was confirmed specifically.

And we can only hope that the AI now expands a little bit more like a sane person would rather than just grabbing everything and becoming an automatic monster. Maybe this is where barbarian cities will come in? If barb cities are a bit more common and more significant it will slow down the AI that has waaaaay too much land around it. Losing to a monster runaway AI was very possible on the higher difficulties, just because you could no longer do anything to stop the monster, unit spammer or no.

 

[Magma]

Could be done very simple. Just open a separate screen to target out what land you wish to purchase/demand/sell/offer. Hexagons you have not targeted would be red and the ones you have, green. *shrug*

 

[The_J]

The standard negotiating panels we are used to wouldn't be adequate, but it is quite possible to have an interface allowing the selection of tiles to trade via the map.

Yes, could sure be somehow done, but i'm not sure, how the evaluation of the worth of one tile will be handled.

Trading of land has been briefly noted in the confirmed features post, although it isn't mentioned which source it was from:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=355156

Other Information

Trading items and land

The source is http://www.civilization5.com .

 

[Tomice]

Since we can "buy" hexes that we wouldn't get as fast automatically, the AI must do the same if it shouldn't suck completely. So they have to know the value of a tile.

It's not that hard to calculate BTW, all this can be expressed in easy formulas:

How many hammers/food/commerce does the tile give? Do I have surplus food already? Do I have a lack of hammers? (So the tile would be less valuable for the AI if the city already has enough, not too difficult to express) Is a special ressource on it? Do I have that ressource? Does my neighbour maybe even grant me his only tile with horses? Does the tile connect new trade routes? (this would also be an expression for the strategic value of a tile, cause this would be true for narrow landbridges very often) Does the tile connect two parts of my empire???

Guess they should be able to pull that off...

 

[kdr777]

It would certaintly add a new depth to the game and it is a feature that I have been missing since the introduction of cultural borders.

I hope that we can also steal land from other civs with your military units (keep your units for n turns and the lands shifts to you [well something more complicated to stop any abuse ])

 

[eleazzaar]

From the reports of how the AI civs will react negatively to players buying up good land...

That sounds like a reference to what i understood to be the ability to spend money to make your cultural borders expand more quickly and in specific directions. I.E. if you settled a new city near some unclaimed resources you could dump a lot of money on the city and your borders would expand rapidly to claim all those resources.

In that sense you can "buy hexes" without any trade interface or AI involvement.

 

[Crazy George]

Since we can "buy" hexes that we wouldn't get as fast automatically, the AI must do the same if it shouldn't suck completely. So they have to know the value of a tile.

When trading for tech in Civ4, one could add gold to sweeten the pot.
I'm thinking land hexes will pop at like 100 culture increments. Or call it X if you don't like my assumption. And X culture has got to be worth Y gold (whatever Y is), from a slider point of view if nothing else. So, one just ends up trading gold for culture in lieu of the more common gold for research.

Could be done very simple. Just open a separate screen to target out what land you wish to purchase/demand/sell/offer.

I'll go with the land trading screen as well. For there to be real diplomacy, at some point individual tiles have to be identified (to define borders, split spoils of war, deliniate targets of war, etc.). And once the AI is willing to discuss individual tiles, there's no reason to put a limit on what they would do with them. Easy enough for me to see Monty not so much asking for my Horse resource as asking for the Horse tile itself.

 

[Disgustipated]

I'm curious how this will work. I'll assume they will have coordinates on them so you can accurately select which tile you want to trade. But even then it will be hard to do without the map.

The problem I have in civ4 when trading cities is you can't bring up the map to show which city it actually is. Some cities you conquer like Aztec ones have cities whos names all look alike. Hard to tell the city apart.

So I would hope they give you an opportunity to view the world map and zoom in on the tile being traded.

 

[eleazzaar]

I'm curious how this will work. I'll assume they will have coordinates on them so you can accurately select which tile you want to trade. But even then it will be hard to do without the map.

The problem I have in civ4 when trading cities is you can't bring up the map to show which city it actually is. Some cities you conquer like Aztec ones have cities whos names all look alike. Hard to tell the city apart.

So I would hope they give you an opportunity to view the world map and zoom in on the tile being traded.

Coordinates would be awkward. If you can really trade arbitrary, individual hexes they need to let you click them on a map. And, like you say a map would make city trading much nicer too.

 

[migkillertwo]

Coordinates would be awkward. If you can really trade arbitrary, individual hexes they need to let you click them on a map. And, like you say a map would make city trading much nicer too.

Do you think it would be possible to trade along parallels or geographic borders like mountains or rivers?

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

I like the system in Europa universalis series except there u trade whole provinces(cities ) whereas here u should be able to trade individual tiles which is even better. I also hope they will keep the vassal system.