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If you value your brain cells, don't read the 1 star reviews of BNW on Amazon.

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by charon2112, Nov 6, 2013.

  1. njmfff

    njmfff Prince

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    1 star review for games\books\movies without idiotic reasons like "My PC doesn't work, it will blow up soon" or "I don't like this (game\movie)" is just a waste of time, and not worth taking in consideration.

    and world needs another hippy movement. Soo much anger within those people. :rolleyes:

    I never gave 1 star to any movie over IMDB for example, even those I really hated. In that case, it's usually 2-3 starts (out of 10) because even in worst of the worst, you can find something redeeming... and I've also very rarely given 10, even those movies that I loved, simply because "it can always be better." :D

    Ps. Piracy is not a big deal like some people turn it out to be. Most of the people who pirate tend to go out and buy legit game\movie\music if they like it. Studios making [censored] product is the biggest problem. Piracy helped dozens of indi game studios and indi filmmakers, because of the word-of-mouth.
     
  2. gps

    gps King

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    :thumbsup:
    Piracy is only a problem for unimginative accountants, who figured out for themselves that any copy of their bad games ever pirated would actually be boguht, if they just could come up with an uncrackable copy protection -and thus would make them insanely rich...
     
  3. Dralix

    Dralix Killer of threads

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    Expecting someone to pay for your product if they're going to use it is not greed.

    Stealing them isn't the same as boycotting.

    Sure that's quite simple. Not really effective, but simple.

    Yeah, how dare a company want customers to pay to use their product. What nerve.
     
  4. Enonwnn

    Enonwnn Chieftain

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    Erm... How ignorant can you be?

    Let's say something happened to your internet connection that is totally out of your control. Something that will take 5 weeks or more to fix. You want to pass the time of no internet access by purchasing a new game that historically has required no internet connection to play. To your disgust you can't actually install the game as internet is required. 5 weeks later, you've moved on and forgotten about your purchase.

    Trust me, this has happened. And there are many situations like this which will have happened. And this is in top first world cities! God knows what it'll be like for those living out in the countryside with extremely little internet connection.

    I'm not saying Steam is bad for everyone, clearly it isn't. But there are situations where the old ways worked better, regardless of pirating games or whatever. The small time gamers have been screwed over, but unfortunately the hard-core gamers have a bigger voice, and more importantly, bigger pockets when it comes to gaming.
     
  5. PhroX

    PhroX Emperor

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    My only real problem with Steam is that you have to be online to turn on offline mode. That's always stuck me as rather counterintuitive. It's fine if you know before hand if you're going to be without internet, but, as Enonwnn said, you can't always predict if something is going to cut off your internet access (eg bloody Virgin Media being fail....).
     
  6. byzman13

    byzman13 Chieftain

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    This seems an appropriate discussion for my first post. I've been following this forum for a long time but I'm usually just looking for tips to accelerate my learning curve, since I don't get nearly as much gaming time as I used to. I don't mind steam but I very much dislike DRM. I no longer pirate anything, only did as a kid (because of limited income). Back in the 80's & 90's there wasn't much DRM and it never even occurred to us that it was stealing. So hear is an example of how DRM can actually have a negative sales/profit impact.

    Back in the day my buddy had gotten a brand new game called Castles. It was a great game for it's day, you could probably consider it the inspiration for Stronghold. The DRM was very simplistic, you could start the game but at some point it would ask to complete a pass phrase from the manual. I used to call my buddy to get the pass phrase answers after a while I had them memorized. Could have just copied the manual but back in the day it's wasn't easy or cheap to get things copied. I never purchased Castles and if it had tighter DRM I probably would have never played Castles but I played it quite a bit. So the developer lost out on purchase? I probably wouldn't have been able to buy it anyway or if I could have I'm not positive that game would have been my choice to spend my hard earned paper route cash. However when Castles 2 came around that is exactly where my hard earned money went! But I'm fairly sure if I only ever received a quick preview of Castles at my friend's house (never got to spend significant time on the game) I would have never purchased Castles 2.

    Most people stealing/pirating a game/movie/music were never going to purchase that media in the first place, not trying to justify the act. Sometimes a free sampling (intentional or unintentional) is the best way to get your product moving. DRM increases the costs of our media and causes side effects which range from minor annoyances for some to complete product failure for others.
     
  7. Dralix

    Dralix Killer of threads

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    This argument is tired. First of all, you are exactly trying to justify the act. You started right off by justifying it by the fact that you had limited income.

    Second, whether the free sampling leads to future purchases or not is not relevant. It's not up to you whether that free sample should be offered. It's up to the developer/publisher. It's up to them to do the CBA and determine which makes more financial sense.

    Finally, Castles was a great game. I played the crap out of it back in the day. I'm not positive, but it's very likely I didn't pay for my copy. Back then, I worked with a guy who used to give me a lot of his game disks and manuals to copy. Back in the day it was very easy and cheap to photocopy manuals when you worked in an office.

    That's right, I used to steal games all the time. I don't try to justify it, it was wrong then, and it's wrong now.

    I recently purchased Castles1/2 from GOG, but haven't played them much yet. I'm actually playing Lords of the Realm 2 these days ...
     
  8. Socratatus

    Socratatus Emperor

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    Hmmm... I haven`t bothered with a BNW review on Amazon yet, i should. It will get a good review but some negatives for the the Xcom unit.
     
  9. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Moderator Action: A caution: this thread began with a complaint about ill-informed Amazon reviews and then morphed into a discussion about the merits and demerits of Steam and other DRM regimes, which is OK (within reason). But now the discussion has drifted into piracy and motivations for engaging in piracy. Please note the site rule that states:
    The advocacy prohibition is where folks often get into trouble. Some posts in this thread might be viewed as having crossed that line, but hopefully this caution will suffice to get the discussion back on track.

    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  10. mjs0

    mjs0 The 4th X

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    Strange, I don't see the reviews merged...I see the BNW reviews alone here

    Aside: Any ideas why the URL for those BNW reviews includes the word Linux?
     
  11. gps

    gps King

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    That's all OK with me. My tolerance is affected when I as paying customer are put under generall suspicion of stealing and being treaded like a criminal. Question is: what is the higher priority? Punishing pirates or bullying honest customers until they actually stop buying games? If the latter was their aim: great work, they already succeded with me...

    Exactly. That's why I am boycotting. Not stealling. And I wish there were silly people like me...

    Right, DRM is better. It's not really effective as well, but at least it's not simple... ;)

    They don't care wheter you actually use their product. After you paid their main objective is fullfilled. The problem is: before DRM (and with most other products) companies wanted you to pay for OWNING their product. Now (and with games) they want you to pay for NOT OWNING their product. Which from the businees point of view is a perfect plan - as long as it works. As said: it doesn't work for me. If that's OK for companies for me it sure is...
     
  12. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    This. I will continue to happily play the awesome game that Civ5 is, one that I bought willingly and legally (which, btw, was less than I paid for the awful Civ3 - a pre-Steam game). While some of you gripe about the means and methods, I will be playing contently and learning to get better at the game - and I hope that Firaxis (as well as other major companies) still feel that developing future games for the PC will be viable. If not, then all that will be left will be full-time DRM and console games.
     
  13. Dralix

    Dralix Killer of threads

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    I'm not going to comment further on the piracy issue in light of the moderator warning except to say ...

    Buccaneer has zero tolerance for piracy? :crazyeye: ;)
     
  14. MisterBoomBoom

    MisterBoomBoom King

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    LOL...dial up modems and AOL accounts no doubt!
     
  15. MisterBoomBoom

    MisterBoomBoom King

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    :p Please feel free to comment and vote on the Pirate Issue over in "Ideas and Suggestions!" :groucho:

    (blatant plug)
     
  16. Arcaian

    Arcaian Warlord

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    Not justifying pirating, but it's not stealing, and there is a difference. The age old analogy people always use is - how would you like it if someone stole your car/computer/insert physical item here. It's different; it's similar to if you were selling say your computer on Ebay, and in the middle of the night someone magically copied it to try out what it was like.

    Sometimes they'll decide it's good enough to buy. Sometimes they won't like it enough to buy - and if you make a bad product and choose not to put up a demo for it because you know it is bad then I have no time for you, and you deserve to lose revenue - and sometime the person will just be a d*ck and enjoy it but not purchase it. Those are the worst kinds of people, and although I haven't torrented a game in 4 or 5 years I made sure if I appreciated the game, I purchased it.

    I'm not saying torennting is good. I'm not saying it should be done, but I'm saying it doesn't have the detrimental affect on the industry that it is claimed to have had. I would hazard a guess at least 30-40% of those torennting the game will buy it if they enjoy it. If there is already a realistic demo out for a game, I don't think it should be torrented. If the game has no demo, then I do not see what is morally wrong about torrenting it, although I do understand it is illegal. From a personal point of view - what difference does it make to the company if I watch Let's Plays! on youtube, or if I torrent the game? A purchase is a purchase no matter how I decided it was worth my money.

    But those people who torrent every game they own, or love a game but never purchase it? Scum like them are the people that are doing real damage to the industry.
     
  17. Derpy Hooves

    Derpy Hooves Grand Inquisitor

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    So you try to make people feel guilty for doing something in their childhoods that you did well into your adult years? And not even due to monetary contraints but sheer practicality? Sounds like some pretty hypocritical logic to me. Like one of those 40 year old addicts that finds religion and now tries to force it upon everyone they know. Those with a guilty conscience make for great fanatics.

    Internet problems aside, there are much more reasons to not want Steam, I personally despise having that damn program on all day, it's a drain on your PC (albeit a minor one), clutters up the taskbar and I really like closing off a game and not having to see a commercial for a game I already knew about or have zero interest in.
    Maybe I just have personal issues with commercials, I'm the sort of person who either zaps away or mutes the TV whenever commercials start, but if you buy yourself a new car I imagine people would be pretty godamn pissed if whenever they want to get out of the car a Coca Cola commercial would start playing, locking your doors until you press a certain button.

    Paradox Interactive, a studio that cares an awful lot about their fans opinion, considering they released an expansion purely based on a forum poll, had a poll on their forums before Crusader Kings 2 was released whether or not they should have DRM on their new game, and this is a poll for paying customers only, although they might always have had minimal DRM, voting in these polls requires a simple but fairly foolproof unique game id verification system.
    The overwhelming majority of paying customers did not want any DRM, having also pirated games in less affluent times, I will even go as far as to say DRM impedes paying customers more then pirates, forcing all kinds of extra verification actions which are often times removed for pirates, not to mention Ubisofts whole Stardock scandal that actually did PHYSICAL HARM to certain PC's, pirates and paying customers alike.
    At the end of the day Paradox decided not to implement any real DRM, and CK2 became their most succesful game, releasing on both physical copies as well as Steam (a game that was actually meant as a sort of test for their new engine), draw whatever conclusion out of that that you want, but I think it basically proves that adding DRM does not actually increase sales.

    Also, taking caution from the mod warning, let me make clear that this is by no means a endorsement of piracy, just an attack on the draconian methods companies try to use to fight it that hurt their paying customers more then their real enemies.
     
  18. Dralix

    Dralix Killer of threads

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    I'm not trying to make anyone feel anything.
     
  19. Johnpecan

    Johnpecan Warlord

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    Useful link, we can click "No" to "Was this review helpful to you?" for all the stupid comments. That way intelligent people can see how dump these people are.
     
  20. Derpy Hooves

    Derpy Hooves Grand Inquisitor

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    Declaring something morally wrong to someone who admits to doing that exact thing is trying to make them feel bad about it.

    "I like to smoke cigarettes"
    "Oh, I used to do that too, I smoked 12 packs a day but stopped because it was the most disgusting habit a human can possibly have that will make your genitals shrink, destroy your skin, fill your body with cancer and makes you a horrible human being. But I totally don't care if you do it."
     

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