Iggy the Idiot - Prince /Monarch training

[Htadus]

I'm probably going to finish off Toku apart from the island city, then get techs for temporary peace. Economic recovery is extremely important here, so I'll do that as well. Might have to raze a couple of cities.

Please consider getting the island city as a peace trade after capturing Tokyo. Our civ is not having a bad economy yet. But getting that Island city will aid immensely.

 

[ShiVvV]

Hey guys. Been busy messing around with Shaka's Nobles Club and tempted to start the new IU game. Looked at the 980AD save from Pigswill--what a massacre! Well played, pigswill.

Thoughts:
1. We have enough military! Well, let me clarify that. We have enough to finish off Toku. We do need to ensure that we get Nagoya (island city) for trade route boost preferably as part of a peace deal. I would think that after capturing his capitol, we sue for peace and techs and the island city. We do NOT vassal him after we have feudalism though, just sue for peace and take him out later. He'll be too weak to be an effective vassal. If he won't give us Nagoya as part of peace deal then we'll just have to take it from his cold, dead hands. It is very likely that Toku will vassal to Justi once we sue for peace which means we may briefly have a two front war. In this event first priority would be to take Toku's last mainland city and fight defensively vs Justi until our army relocated south.

2. I would really love to get the Parthenon built. Two reasons--we have two cities that can build it very quickly, either Rome or RiceBanana (with some tile swaps with Rome). The primary reason is that our research will be heavily GPerson dependent until our economy can catch up.

3. I'm thinking that the war vs Justinian will be short-lived; he might give in after taking only 2-3 cities. I'm wondering whether you guys think it's better to vassal Justi leaving him with 4-5 cities or to just accept peace deal w/o vassaling him? If we vassal him, we want to leave him powerful enough to be effective vassal but not so powerful that he could win the game via culture eventually. If we eliminate Justinian too then we'll need caravels pretty damn quick or else we're in for a long period of self-teching.

4. We currently have a very tight window where espionage vs Justi could assist us. We can build 2 spys (somewhere??) and send to Angora/Antioch for tech steal.

5. Justi is building stack in Angora.


Summary
Build the Parthenon somewhere. Could even failgold the SoZ somewhere for that matter.
Espionage?
Take toku's cap and see what he'll give.

 

[ShiVvV]

I am never any good at all at deciding where to put NE / HE. I would be interested to hear opinions on where are good potential locations ( and in particular, why )

But for the FP - would it be sensible to put it in Tokyo once we have captured that ?

Tokyo looks good as it looks like it has Moai Statues and seems like a good production city so could we build FP pretty quickly there ? I suppose it all depends what we find to the West - should we be starting to explore that area soon ?

My thoughts on NE/HE/FP:
HE- Normally not the capitol. Should be located in a high-hammer city which doesn't necessarily mean lots of hills (workshops with guilds/chemistry/state property can be very productive). It should have enough food to be able to actually work the tiles though, which is the trick. This city won't be whipped much at all after the HE is built.

NE- Again, normally not the capitol although in certain map situations I have built it there. Absolutely HAS to be a high-food city obviously and specialists have to be run of course. (It's tempting, at least to me, to remove specialists sometimes--I have to force myself to think long-term and keep running them). Shouldn't be located near borders with unfriendly neighbors.
*The NE paired with the GLibrary can be awesome if built early enough!*

FP- When I do get around to building it is usually a fair distance from my capitol but also able to affect a maximum number of cities for maintenance reduction. On a map like ours I would think Adrianople, Rome or Antioch would be good choices. Rome is probably best in this situation (although means no WestPoint) because we really need the city maintenance help now. In my opinion, Tokyo is not a good site for FP in this game as it's not located centrally enough.

 

[pigswill]

As a point of information HE is already built in Rome in 980ad save. We're building FP in Gem City another bit of whip overflow or just letting Gemcity grow and whip it anyway and it should be finished next set. Kyoto seems the obvious place for NE with a bit of production and quite a bit of food.

In terms of The War I'm in favour of eliminating Japan now. Nagoya will fall easily enough with a couple of cats and half a dozen wellies/axes and we've got galleys and units there already. Eliminating Japan early stops Toku spamming LBs in his last two cities gets rid of homeland yearning and simplifies the culture map considerably.

Once we've scouted out Justinian properly we can get an invasion plan ready. We need to capture his iron early to stop him building potential xbows pikes or cataphrax. Annhilation or capitulation is an argument for a bit later.

 

[ShiVvV]

As a point of information HE is already built in Rome in 980ad save. We're building FP in Gem City another bit of whip overflow or just letting Gemcity grow and whip it anyway and it should be finished next set. Kyoto seems the obvious place for NE with a bit of production and quite a bit of food. My post was more in reference to where to build those buildings in any given game.

In terms of The War I'm in favour of eliminating Japan now. Nagoya will fall easily enough with a couple of cats and half a dozen wellies/axes and we've got galleys and units there already. Eliminating Japan early stops Toku spamming LBs in his last two cities gets rid of homeland yearning and simplifies the culture map considerably. Valid points concerning ease of capturing Nagoya and Toku spamming longbows; in 10 turns he could really present a tough defensive force although he'll only have 2 cities to whip them out of. I think it boils down to whether we want temporary peace for techs (i.e., feudalism)/gold and accepting the fact that Toku will be stronger once peace deal expires and we'll have to deal with culture issues for a bit longer. I am also in favor of eliminating him as soon as peace deal expires.

Once we've scouted out Justinian properly we can get an invasion plan ready. We need to capture his iron early to stop him building potential xbows pikes or cataphrax. Annhilation or capitulation is an argument for a bit later.Yep. Spies!

This is so much more fun than on Immortal!

 

[Sir Clive]

This is so much more fun than on Immortal!

Well if we win this one fairly easily ( and this definitely helping me to step up a level or two ) I may be tempted to play an Immortal SG which would be an other huge step.

But I agree it is good fun to be able to kill stuff rather than get killed as is usual for me

I think I should move gradually from here though, so maybe an Emperor SG before launching straight into Immortal

Maybe even another Monarch game but with more challenging settings / some sort of challenge for victory conditions ?

But let's get this one done first ....

 

[ShiVvV]

Well if we win this one fairly easily ( and this definitely helping me to step up a level or two ) I may be tempted to play an Immortal SG which would be an other huge step.

But I agree it is good fun to be able to kill stuff rather than get killed as is usual for me

I think I should move gradually from here though, so maybe an Emperor SG before launching straight into Immortal

Maybe even another Monarch game but with more challenging settings / some sort of challenge for victory conditions ?

But let's get this one done first ....

I'm glad you're getting something out of this, Clive. I wish I'd done something like this years ago...guess I still could.

I only typed the 'more fun than immortal' thing because I had to put something in the post . But yea, it is more fun when not stressing over every combat, decision, etc.

The skills that helped me improve the most were spawnbusting, maximizing whip overflow, and developing a feel for when early-ish wars were necessary (map and neighbor dependent). I'm still learning...some of the articles/SG threads are still real eye-openers for me. All of these are early game skills but maximizing the efficiency of early decisions, especially as difficulty level goes up, is probably the fastest way to improve. Just takes time. I still make plenty of mistakes but I try not to go down the same rabbit holes. I still tend to build too many garrison units which kills economy slowly or go to war w/o clear objectives and decisive tech advantages.

You might enjoy the GOTM's (games of the month). I just recently started playing them and the nice thing is that everyone plays the same game and the difficulty level varies from one month to the next. Most folks do a pretty decent summary of their games also. Noble's Club games and Immortal University games have more comprehensive write-ups for the most part. These last two can also be played at the stated difficulty or above.

 

[Sir Clive]

=

You might enjoy the GOTM's (games of the month). I just recently started playing them and the nice thing is that everyone plays the same game and the difficulty level varies from one month to the next. Most folks do a pretty decent summary of their games also. Noble's Club games and Immortal University games have more comprehensive write-ups for the most part. These last two can also be played at the stated difficulty or above.

ShiVvV - the reason I started this SG is because I loved reading the GOTMs and SGOTMs. I have been avidly lurking them for about the last 5-6 years

Most of them were way above my skill level but I always found them entertaining and informative. Just lurked silently, maybe in future I should ask a few stupid questions.

But I felt I couldn't participate in either because
a) Most were above my skill level
b) Because I work long hours and travel a lot I wouldn't have the time neccessary to micro-manage at the level required.

So that is why I launched this one as a 'relaxed game' - i.e reasonably easy level ( for seasoned campaigners but a step up for me ) , no rush to get finished and general analysis for each turnset rather than unit by unit / city by city / everything else taking up 10 pages for a 5 turn set.

I may be made redundant this week so I may have a bit more time on my hands but I will still need the time to find a new job and those games just go too quick for me , I feel I don't have the time to contribute enough.

Cheers

Niall

 

[TheSunIsDark]

I'll need a skip, RL getting in the way (mainly homework).

 

[Sir Clive]

I'll need a skip, RL getting in the way (mainly homework).

Ok - revised turnset -


1) Folket - On holiday
2) TheSunIsDark - Needs a skip
3) Htadus - On deck
4) ShiVvV - Up
5) Sir Clive - On deck
6 ) Pigswill -


ShiVvV - I don't have much time right now but I think the starting points points for PPP for discussion are-

Warring - How far do we go before peace ? We need to get as much tech as we can as we are way behind.
But Capture Island City looks good.
We need to keep Togu alive so we can get some trades.
But Agree with whoever ( pigswill ?) said we should be wary of him building loads of longbows whilst at peace.
So peace for techs, but declare again as soon as we feel strong enough.

We have anough military to start having a go at Justinian soon - do we kill him or Vassal him ?
But my instinct is we shouldn't declare until we have done the peace / get tech / redeclare on Togu

Building

FP - Being built in Gem City - all OK with that ?
HE - already built in Rome
NE _ Kyoto seems obvious place ?

ShiVvV - you said you fancy the Parthenon - Not something I have normally built but I do see some value in it.

Finally , a few on the roster need skips - it's geting to that time of year ( at least in the northern hemisphere ) when people get more busy people are on holiday , and I guess there may be a few people watching the World Cup ?

I'm going to a birthday party in Paris in 2 weeks so I will probably be too to play / comment for a few days

So should we see if we can get one more person in to minimse the risk of stalling ?

7 is definitely the max size but I think having one more would keep it rolling without people having to wait too long between turns ?

 

[ShiVvV]

snip

Ok - revised turnset -


1) Folket - On holiday
2) TheSunIsDark - Needs a skip
3) Htadus - On deck
4) ShiVvV - Up
5) Sir Clive - On deck
6 ) Pigswill -

Is it not Htadus' turn? Regardless, I'll start preparing for a turnset so things move along.

 

[Sir Clive]

snip

Is it not Htadus' turn? Regardless, I'll start preparing for a turnset so things move along.

I had a feeling that Htadus said he was away for as week - I may be very confused.

I have to crash out now, but if either you want to play the next set , I will let you fight it out between yourselves....

 

[Htadus]

Is it my turn?....

 

[ShiVvV]

Yes, Htadus, go ahead and play this turnset. I believe Clive just thought you'd be away. According to rotation it should be your set. Good luck!

 

[Htadus]

Will do.

Drop Toku down to 2 cities and get the city and techs for peace.

Mass 2 groups near Gem city and horse city to DoW against Justi.

I intend to explore the island to NE and the west. Will stop as needed.

 

[Sir Clive]

Will do.

Drop Toku down to 2 cities and get the city and techs for peace.

Mass 2 groups near Gem city and horse city to DoW against Justi.

I intend to explore the island to NE and the west. Will stop as needed.

OK so (sorry for the confusion re the roster )

1) Folket - On holiday
2) TheSunIsDark - Needs a skip
3) Htadus - Up
4) ShiVvV - On deck
5) Sir Clive - Being an Idiot
6 ) Pigswill -

Just back and football World Cup will no doubt interrupt the weekend but will try to keep track and post sometime Saturday UK time ....

Techs for peace shuld be the priority I guess - but will post more coherent (hopefully ) thoughts.

Cheers All

Niall

 

[Htadus]

I played 13 turns. That is 3 more than I should have but I was in the "one more turn" mode I guess. .

We are at peace with Toku for a few more turns and should get peace with Justy in about 2-4 turns based on what we choose to do.

Spoiler :

T160 (T1-1000AD)Switched builds in capital and GemCity to a Temple and an axe. Started to get forces

togather for the next war and moving forces to take last Japanese city.

T161 (T1): Whip both cities and move units. Sending back a galley.

T162(T2): Movements and bombard.

T163(T3): Captured Tokyo for loss of 1 cat and 2 WE. Setting Sci to 100%.

T164(T4): Both the GLib and FP are done. Forces are at Last Japanese city.

T165(T5): We are running out of time to attack Justy. So get Peace for the City only and get forces reasy to go after Justy.

T166(T6): We are ready to DoW Justy nect turn and will be able to learn CS.

T167(T7): Learned CS and revolt to Buro. It cost 14gpt for civic but will gain about 30gpt with gold alone. Chose not to switch to HR since it cost another turn of Anarchy. DoW Justy.

T168(T8): Captured two cities. Move the main stack and got a new GG. Our NE explorer Galley and an axe got sunk by 2 barb galleys. This is the reason to fog bust the coast.

T169(T9): Movements.

T170(T10): Captured another city and moving troops.

T171(T11): Captured another city along the south coast.

T172(T12): Moving units.

T173(T13): Captured a city along the western coast and units are ready to bombard the capital. We will learn Paper IBT.

End Set.

Notes to Next Player.

1. I have already started moving units toward Japan.
2. The 2 Japanese units should get beamed out of that Island when the culture from the island city and Kyota grows.
3. After Kyoto finish the LH, we can start the NE there. However, I would rather build it in the capital.
4. As for the capital, It should start the UoS there next turn.
5. As for the war, after capturing the Capital we can move units to his remaining continantal city and then get peace for techs or his island city and a tech.
6. We have a few more turns of peace with Toku but our units should be ready to move in by then.
7. There is a settler to NE that was intended to go settle the land off of the coast but the barb galleys are being a problem. We may need 3 galleys to get to the island.

 

[Sir Clive]

1. I have already started moving units toward Japan.
2. The 2 Japanese units should get beamed out of that Island when the culture from the island city and Kyota grows.
3. After Kyoto finish the LH, we can start the NE there. However, I would rather build it in the capital.
4. As for the capital, It should start the UoS there next turn.
5. As for the war, after capturing the Capital we can move units to his remaining continantal city and then get peace for techs or his island city and a tech.
6. We have a few more turns of peace with Toku but our units should be ready to move in by then.
7. There is a settler to NE that was intended to go settle the land off of the coast but the barb galleys are being a problem. We may need 3 galleys to get to the island.

Looks good Htadus !

1) Folket - On holiday
2) TheSunIsDark - Needs a skip
3) Htadus - Just Played
4) ShiVvV - Up
5) Sir Clive - On deck
6 ) Pigswill -

Only had the chance for a quick look but a few initial questions.

1) You mentioned re the Galley getting destroyed . Trireme needs Metal Casting right ?
Is it worth spending 3-4 turns researching that so that we can defend our coast a bit better until we get to Optics ?

2) We seem to have lots of cities now producing big food surplusses ( 5,6,7 a turn ) .
I normally tend to leave 2-3-4 surplus ( provided happines is OK ) and invest anything above this into specialists or whips. Or do we continue to grow as fast as possible ?

3) It looks like it won't be long until we have complete control of the continent. Do we then play a few turnsets building infrastructure ? If so , what are we going to research?

If I was playing this solo I would now beeline to Astronomy so that I could find the other civs as quickly as possible , get some more trade routes, do some tech trades and then decide who to kill first

But I can see that because gold is still a problem we have a lot of cities building wealth which means they can't build units or infra. I very rarely build wealth , so normally all of my cities are building units or infra.

So do we go Guilds / Banking route for Malls / Banks before Astronomy ?

Presumably our economy should recover a bit once captured cities are out of revolt and we own the whole continent ?

 

[Sir Clive]

I notice that we have a settler in the North - East . Presumably settle a coastal city here ?

We obviously don't know what the missing civs landmasses are like - could be all of them on one landmass similar to ours, or all separate.

But I would presume when we do find out, we want to explore / invade via the quickest possible routes.

So is it worth building one or two coastal cities on our east coast so that we can send exploring / invading troops from our east coast as well as from the more productive cities in the west ?
I know they wont be very good production sites but we could build / park some defensive naval units there in case any enemies come from that way , and we we can send exploring boats which may getthere quicker than from the west .

 

[Folket]

I have returned but will not be able to catch up before tomorrow.