I'm really hoping that there's a "change terrain" feature in CIV6

[yardsale]

In Civ 4 (never played civ 5), you could already change the terrain, although inadvertently, by using nukes to trigger global warming, which causes random tiles to change to desert.

I'm thinking, why not a more direct (player controlled) and positive approach to changing terrain features? It would be like building improvements, but for changing from grass to plain and vice versa, or flattening a hill, or raising one, etc...

I remember thinking in every Civ 4 game I played,
If only I had been one tile over to get those green tiles for my cottages/farms in the BFC!
There are too many flat tiles, I need more hills for production!
Too many plain tiles, I need more food!

I hope that you can somehow change terrain features in Civ 6. Clearly it should be a very late-game mechanic. Research could probably be Geo-engineering - just an idea. And this power should be balanced by some kind of obvious limitation. Maybe it should take almost as long to change the terrain as it takes to construct a wonder. Maybe you need a specific late-game rare resource. Maybe you can only do it during a particular season (there are day/night cycles in Civ 6, I'm wondering if there will be seasonal changes as well).

What are your thoughts?

 

[AriochIV]

Choices in games are meant to be difficult, and so terrain should be meaningful. If you can change terrain to your liking, then it serves no purpose, and you might as well be playing on a flat, featureless grid.

Being able to terraform in the late game would be realistic, but I think it would break part of the game.

 

[Pepo]

It isn't a good idea as at the time it will become avatible (near future, like the Robot of death in ciuv V) it will be of no use

 

[Wolle68]

Terraforming in Civ II didn't actually break the game, but it came so late it was of little significance.

Still it felt good to finally get rid of those pesky desert tiles. I wouldn't mind it just for that.

 

[stiiknafuulia]

Being able to dam rivers (required for Hydro Power Plants?) would be something new and very interesting (imo). It could also come early enough to actually have some impact.

Other than that, global warming (building too many factories while clearing too much forest and jungle) could start to raise the sea level and melt the ice caps, as well as causing deserts and plains to spread. You could combat that by building recycling plants, 'dismantling' the factories of your rivals (a polite word ), or by planting massive stretches of forests. Planted forests could also stop desertification in neighboring tiles.

Canals need to be in ofc. Imagine building a wonder that lets you dig 5 canal tiles, and you can actually place them on the map and see the custom canal on it once constructed!

Fwiw, Ed Beach has stated that he wanted to have canals and other terraforming in Civ V, but the engine couldn't be bent to it after release. Since they made an entirely new engine for Civ VI, I'm eager to let my hopes ascend, but otoh they haven't hinted at any new terraforming options. It's a pretty big secret to keep, but I do hope they're keeping it (and leaking it at some point ).

EDIT: To be clear, I'm opposed to being able to categorically alter a type of tile to another type (say, convert all desert tiles to plains). It'd be very hard to balance properly; either it will be worth doing and you will convert every tile, or it won't be and the feature will be useless. Worse still, if it were viable, it would add mostly tedium, as it's such a brainless decision: 'Do I want +1 food in all desert tiles? Duh; gentlemen, start your engines!'. Otoh, the mechanics outlined above mean you actually have to make some decisions, given their inherent limitations. There are only so many rivers on the map, and only one canal wonder (or two at most, to account for Panama and Suez irl). The global warming mechanic would have to be very well designed, as it has the danger of becoming meaningless or tedious if poorly balanced. Firaxis has a pretty bad record of balancing late-game mechanics, so perhaps they should add it in an expansion where there's time and resources to do it properly.

 

[tetley]

Yeah, that. Tile changing should be available in modern eras. Plus having global warming, countered by mankind trying to change the landscape in their way...which in turn causes other unforeseen consequences...that is a real thing in real-life civilization today

 

[Stringer1313]

Yeah I'm doubtful this is a great idea since the whole point of this iteration is to be forced to make interesting choices based on the confinement of geography.

 

[yardsale]

Choices in games are meant to be difficult, and so terrain should be meaningful. If you can change terrain to your liking, then it serves no purpose, and you might as well be playing on a flat, featureless grid.

Being able to terraform in the late game would be realistic, but I think it would break part of the game.

Break the game how? It wouldn't do much at all if it's properly implemented with the right balances. It would only add more options for the player.

I thought tribal villages in Civ 4 were "game breaking" so I had that feature turned off in all of my games. If you feel so strongly about terraforming, the same could be done in Civ 6. Have it as an option in custom games.

 

[joncnunn]

Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas & Suggestions

 

[m15a]

Terraforming in Civ II didn't actually break the game, but it came so late it was of little significance.

I think this sums up the problem with the idea. To make sure that terraforming doesn't interfere with the basic design of having to place your cities (and now districts) well, the effect has to be limited either by pushing it to be so late that it doesn't interfere with the main game design concept of city placement or making it so costly that it is only worth doing in rare cases. And if it's so little used, why go through the trouble of actually implementing terraforming? Just make some wonders or late game buildings that simulate the effects of terraforming, like Petra (costly and useful in rare cases) or hospitals (late game) in Civ V.

 

[Ryika]

In either case I hope the Client is able to handle changing terrain on the fly this time around. Terraforming, while possibly coming too late to play a significant role in the unmodded game, is a thing that would allow some pretty interesting modern-day or fantasy scenarios.

 

[tetley]

Too much weight on the Classical Era. The Future Era needs to matter.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Choices in games are meant to be difficult, and so terrain should be meaningful. If you can change terrain to your liking, then it serves no purpose, and you might as well be playing on a flat, featureless grid.

Being able to terraform in the late game would be realistic, but I think it would break part of the game.

It actually existed in Civ 2. It was not available until late-game, however, and took more time than standard improvements.

I could picture it being an option in the newer games, but what happens in practice is that any advantage it confers aside from prettying up the map is too late to be super meaningful to the outcome. If you had only tundra for 200 turns using the next 50 to shift it into grassland isn't going to make things behave like you had grassland from turn 1.

Most sensible abilities would be a slow/costly reforestation action, or allowing flatland mines/modified hills type stuff that isn't really "terraforming" but indicative of newer technologies allowing for non-traditional improvements on a given terrain type.

 

[WillowBrook]

If implemented appropriately, it would be a cool feature. And as Ryika noted, could be great for mods. I have vague memories of a Civ I or II mars colony scenario where you could eventually discover terraforming. It was very satisfying to turn the barren land green.

 

[cooldude1128]

I don't mind either way if there is or is not terraforming in the base game, but what'd be great is basically what Ryika said; changing the terrain in-game at all. Either for a worldbuilder, or a futuristic Alpha Centauri-type conversion mod, or any other number of applications like Fall From Heaven's hell terrain.

 

[TRoosevelt]

It actually existed in Civ 2. It was not available until late-game, however, and took more time than standard improvements.

I could picture it being an option in the newer games, but what happens in practice is that any advantage it confers aside from prettying up the map is too late to be super meaningful to the outcome. If you had only tundra for 200 turns using the next 50 to shift it into grassland isn't going to make things behave like you had grassland from turn 1.

Most sensible abilities would be a slow/costly reforestation action, or allowing flatland mines/modified hills type stuff that isn't really "terraforming" but indicative of newer technologies allowing for non-traditional improvements on a given terrain type.

IIRC, I was able to terraform much earlier in CIV 2 and build canals with my workers. All I had to do was change their ability to alter swamps and marshes from jungle (I think?) to coast tiles - and PRESTO! - INSTANT CANAL!! I always hated having a city landlocked from the sea. If, in real life, the world's civilizations were able to overcome obstacles and build the Suez Canal (1869), the Panama Canal (1914), and navigate the world's major rivers, I don't understand why something as so important as canal-building and inland river navigation can be just casually left out of the game. Historically, sea commerce was the primary means of trading, and regular overland commerce didn't become feasible until more modern roads (or railroads) were built.


Obviously, I have a bias for canals and maritime history in general, but other terraforming projects should be represented in the game as well. Deforestation, filling in swamps/marshes via landfills to make livable areas, tunneling through mountains (and under seas), building locks and dams that actually create huge reservoirs and navigable rivers inland, and dynamiting/channeling through hills to make road/railroad networks more level and therefore more efficient. But, I wouldn't agree on destroying hills/mountains or making them. To me, that has no basis in reality.


These are a few ideas I have concerning terraforming. Like I said, being able to build actual canals and navigable rivers would really help our inland cities become a big part of our civilization and world commerce. I guess it really bothers me that they ignore what was a major part of all civilization's growth throughout history. I think it's really because the game time runs too quickly to even develop a maritime economy and infrastructure.