Played this one until 1AD, but haven't checked your game yet. Save is BUFFY.
Spoiler :
[BTS] IMM & Deity lets play collection thread - Henrik
- Thread starter Henrik75
- Start date
Played this one until 1AD, but haven't checked your game yet. Save is BUFFY.
CarpoolKaraoke
Not James Corden
- Joined
- May 2, 2021
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- 272
@CarpoolKaraoke
Spoiler :
CarpoolKaraoke
Not James Corden
- Joined
- May 2, 2021
- Messages
- 272
Hey Henrik,
Been a fan for a long time now. I know you've been looking for a good isolation map to improve your play on. I've been saving my new games on turn 1 in case they turned out that way so I could put it here for you if you were interested. I'm an emperor player and not good at isolation, by the time I got to Astronomy was decisively behind and gave up. I went in world builder and gave 2 settlers and 3 archers per enemy civ so you could try it on diety.
It's Wilhelm isolated fractal map.
Been a fan for a long time now. I know you've been looking for a good isolation map to improve your play on. I've been saving my new games on turn 1 in case they turned out that way so I could put it here for you if you were interested. I'm an emperor player and not good at isolation, by the time I got to Astronomy was decisively behind and gave up. I went in world builder and gave 2 settlers and 3 archers per enemy civ so you could try it on diety.
It's Wilhelm isolated fractal map.
impressive optics dates people posted for the mao game 
mine feels bad now, but i do like the stone settle idea for faster start for sure.
@Chris0305
For the Willem game above I will try it, looks like a nice start. If you are struggling with isolation you want to aim for early optics and have 2 scientists ready to bulb astronomy soon as you get calendar and alphabet. You can get away with optics at 500AD on deity, 800AD on imm, and 1000AD on emperor. Any later risks not getting any trades. The biggest thing I found is try not to crash your economy by settling too many cities. stop at 4 until you get libraries up, then push monarchy (or CoL with mids) and settle another 2, and firmly stop at 6, is a nice pattern i use in isolation. we have FIN and CRE as our traits which will be extremely effective for commerce, and also saving a couple units for fogbusting with free border pops. I'm already planning to upload NC289 (Willem) but if you want I can upload this one too, maybe a little later.
Another note, when isolated, its expected you will be firmly behind, trade your way back up with astronomy and optics. If you play without trading, then you need to get early civil service and maybe even optics before meeting people.
mine feels bad now, but i do like the stone settle idea for faster start for sure.@Chris0305
For the Willem game above I will try it, looks like a nice start. If you are struggling with isolation you want to aim for early optics and have 2 scientists ready to bulb astronomy soon as you get calendar and alphabet. You can get away with optics at 500AD on deity, 800AD on imm, and 1000AD on emperor. Any later risks not getting any trades. The biggest thing I found is try not to crash your economy by settling too many cities. stop at 4 until you get libraries up, then push monarchy (or CoL with mids) and settle another 2, and firmly stop at 6, is a nice pattern i use in isolation. we have FIN and CRE as our traits which will be extremely effective for commerce, and also saving a couple units for fogbusting with free border pops. I'm already planning to upload NC289 (Willem) but if you want I can upload this one too, maybe a little later.
Another note, when isolated, its expected you will be firmly behind, trade your way back up with astronomy and optics. If you play without trading, then you need to get early civil service and maybe even optics before meeting people.
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crashmon
Warlord
Hey Hendrik.
Here is the Mansa isolation game I played. I nearly won on Immortal for the first time. I normally get completely destroyed so it's a definitely good land. It would be awesome if you tried it on the Let's Play but whenever is fine since you did play Mansa kinda recently I think.
Thanks again for all the content.
Here is the Mansa isolation game I played. I nearly won on Immortal for the first time. I normally get completely destroyed so it's a definitely good land. It would be awesome if you tried it on the Let's Play but whenever is fine since you did play Mansa kinda recently I think.
Thanks again for all the content.
sylvanllewelyn
Perma-newb
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2006
- Messages
- 2,036
I've been trying my hand at immortal, haven't won yet but am improving. Did a random climate Pangea map with random leader and got Portugal and Rocky and it generated probably the strangest start I've ever seen. Thought I'd post it here if you were interested.
Spoiler Starting location :
I don't think they are comparable at all. How exactly isn't a 3
3
-tile just better than a 2
7-tile? 3/2/1-paradigm ( =3 =2 =1) also agrees with this. Cottages also go up in and allow growing to more 3-tiles. High , zero -tiles like gold are very good in grabbing the early techs quickly, but beyond that part of the game they are just mediocre, losing very clearly to specialists also.
drewisfat
King
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2011
- Messages
- 995
I woke up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat, for I had sensed a disturbance in the force. Now I see that it was the Sith Lord Sampsa up to his usual anti-gold shenanigans. (I respect you too bro <3)
Your 3/2/1 calculation comes out to 12 vs 11. However, the 3/2/1 paradigm very suspiciously uses even numbers. I would argue that something like 2.85/2/1.33 is more accurate albeit less catchy. Failgold and building wealth wouldn't be such popular strong plays if hammers were truly twice as valuable as gold. If we plug in my numbers we instead get 12.54 vs 13.31 in favor of 27. Ignoring cottage growth, I prefer 2/7 over 3/3
I would say you're undervaluing the game changer that gold tiles can be. Commerce snowballs as many techs boost commerce. Even if the final yield of towns is greater, they may never overcome the gold snowball. Early game gold boost opens up all kinds of wonder plays that are otherwise more dubious. Oracle -> deep sling being the obvious one, but also something like GLH I find is often prohibitively expensive because not only are you grabbing sailing early which may or may not be silly, but you have to grab masonry early and it's not even because you have a tile to quarry for a bonus resource. That no-cottage game where I raced to Monotheism for OR-fueled wonderspam is another example of gold-fueled shenanigans. Mid-game it can enable more greedy tech paths without jeopardizing TGL and liberalism. Most avg to below avg UUs are such because they don't fall along the normal bulb path, but high gold starts can make those UUs work out really well. Late game towns can overtake gold mines but only barely. I say only barely because town maximization locks you in to two civics. Also, late game food stops becoming restrictive (bio farms, corps) and you've probably stopped running slavery. Gold mines also get a boost from railroads.
I think not working capital gold mines is virtually always a mistake, because they get that snowball working so early, and the capital always has decent food, and bureaucracy gives a further bonus to gold mines. Other gold mines are situational depending on available food. In the example game settling that southern gold mine seems fine. However, I'd be very tempted to instead found a city that can work 3 gold and 1 silver mine and rush an academy there - pigs + FPs can support this food-wise. I never build academies. Ultimately, I like high commerce tiles because they let me have fun doing different things.
Your 3/2/1 calculation comes out to 12 vs 11. However, the 3/2/1 paradigm very suspiciously uses even numbers. I would argue that something like 2.85/2/1.33 is more accurate albeit less catchy. Failgold and building wealth wouldn't be such popular strong plays if hammers were truly twice as valuable as gold. If we plug in my numbers we instead get 12.54 vs 13.31 in favor of 2
7. Ignoring cottage growth, I prefer 2/7 over 3/3I would say you're undervaluing the game changer that gold tiles can be. Commerce snowballs as many techs boost commerce. Even if the final yield of towns is greater, they may never overcome the gold snowball. Early game gold boost opens up all kinds of wonder plays that are otherwise more dubious. Oracle -> deep sling being the obvious one, but also something like GLH I find is often prohibitively expensive because not only are you grabbing sailing early which may or may not be silly, but you have to grab masonry early and it's not even because you have a tile to quarry for a bonus resource. That no-cottage game where I raced to Monotheism for OR-fueled wonderspam is another example of gold-fueled shenanigans. Mid-game it can enable more greedy tech paths without jeopardizing TGL and liberalism. Most avg to below avg UUs are such because they don't fall along the normal bulb path, but high gold starts can make those UUs work out really well. Late game towns can overtake gold mines but only barely. I say only barely because town maximization locks you in to two civics. Also, late game food stops becoming restrictive (bio farms, corps) and you've probably stopped running slavery. Gold mines also get a boost from railroads.
I think not working capital gold mines is virtually always a mistake, because they get that snowball working so early, and the capital always has decent food, and bureaucracy gives a further bonus to gold mines. Other gold mines are situational depending on available food. In the example game settling that southern gold mine seems fine. However, I'd be very tempted to instead found a city that can work 3 gold and 1 silver mine and rush an academy there - pigs + FPs can support this food-wise. I never build academies. Ultimately, I like high commerce tiles because they let me have fun doing different things.
If I have gold at the capital I prefer to settle a helper city that can work it until turn 120+ when the capital can take it.CarpoolKaraoke
Not James Corden
- Joined
- May 2, 2021
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- 272
Imo Financial leaders should play isolation maps as if there are no restrictions. Settle all the food, you can pay for the expansion freely.
And I pictured myself as one of the final warriors battling against evil creatures that worship noble metals... 
Of course, you bring up good points. Perhaps 3
3 (say FIN oasis) vs 27 is rather equal and comes down to player preference, the state of the game and the needs of the current empire. I'm not sure if 3/2/1 is very accurate or even a good way to think in general, as these values should in reality be dynamic. At the point when the best play is to build 
/
, and should indeed be worth roughly the same.Yes. My point is just that the gold tile needs to beat several cottages, which is of course possible due to snowballing (=getting key techs earlier etc). In the game in question, it's desert gold vs ***king floodplain FIN cottages. It won't get better than that for cottages and if here gold wins, I admit that it's the best tile in the game and we should all worship it endlessly. On a serious note I do agree that as long as a city is growing at a good pace or has reached current max size, a gold tile is excellent and I do agree that in capital it's most valuable, because you get to work it when working it is the best (very early).
I am not mindlessly bashing gold-tiles (well not often), but I think their shininess has the ability to blind people.
On to another subject, I hear some people like to build academies...
CarpoolKaraoke
Not James Corden
- Joined
- May 2, 2021
- Messages
- 272
On to another subject, I hear some people like to build academies...
Spoiler I guess I'm trolling sampsa :
@CarpoolKaraoke True, I need to approve an academy when isolated (or PHI).
True, I need to approve an academy when isolated (or PHI).
looks a bit limiting here anyways.
