Immaculate NES II: Emperor of the Fading Heavens (pre-NES thread)

[Immaculate]

Thinking more about what Orange wrote about population, i think major houses would have about 20-30 million people (remember that many of the planets completely lost all their human population during the symbiot wars and had to be repopulated- except errovus secondus of course-which explains its high population). Leagueheim is not particular high population but its a small planet (relative to the rest) and so its population is destributed extremely densely.

But yes, lets increase the populations- 20-30 million for a major house and about 1/3 of that for a minor house sounds about right...

regarding technology: I think i like orange's ideas (lots of good ideas this guy) about nixing the Internal combustion engine. And while this is an elegant sort of 'border' that one can draw and it has interesting ramfications, there are some problems.

So... generally... houses will have both internal combustion (IC) engines and electronic engines amonst the nobility (so they drive around in cars if they want to) but generally IC and electronic engines will be rare except amongst the super rich and the politically connected. Serfs are stuck behind oxen and donkeys i am afraid. But thats partially because they honestly believe 1) that techs can endanger their souls, 2) they believe in the feudal system- (its all they know) and believe that 'artifaces' are the arena of other, greater men and women.

So you might have an enclave with diesel generators that has electric lighting and diesal-powered cars, a private airport with a propellar plane or two and all around are fields with mud huts and oxen and super poor people that have never seen a lightbulb (or maybe even a candle).

Leagueheim is supposed to be a an exception to this and many freemen there are supposed to own their own vehicles- of course- except for Darksaber's trading house, most of you only heard these tales and have never been there.

From a military point of view, the vast majority of weapons and armour will be bolt action rifles, WW1-era explosives (including artillary shells). artillery and other big guns (anti-tank, AA) will be horse-drawn. resources will be provided by rail. Wars will largely be an affair of trench warfare and attrition.

However, noble hosues and other 'connected' factions will probably have elite house guards with much better weapons and equipment including automatic ballistic weapons (automatic rifles, submachine guns), IC-powered vehicles (possibly including a handful of primative WW1-era tanks depending on relative infrastructure) and a small airforce (not jets). The vast majority of these more elite weapons and armour will have been purchased from the league and not built in house.

In addition to this, you'll have your more high-tech military 'assets' which are 99% recovered Grand Republic technology and can consist of fairly futuristic weapons and equipment.

I hope these decisions make sense to people.

 

[Vertinari118]

Equipment of World War One

-Every side had armoured cars. The French, British, German, Russian and American governments developed them. I would assume the Germans gave some to the Austrians (or the Austrians developed their own but I don't know about it). The Belgians also had armoured cars. Armoured cars were used for internal policing and for the more mobile stages of the war. Their mobility was especially useful on the Eastern Front, when the conditions were actually good enough to use them. They were also extremely useful because of their ability to protect convoys and in urban fighting as later conflicts of the same period, such as the First Irish Civil War proved. Most were armed with several machine guns though a few such a the French Peugeot Armoured Car had a 37mm gun turret instead.

- Tanks were designed by the French, Americans, British and Germans and in the end won the war on the Allies side but you know all about these. Note not all WWI tanks were rhomboid in design. More conventional tank designs with a turret were also developed.

-Self-propelled artillery was invented by the British by 1916. It could be removed from the gun carrier and set up normally or could be fired from the gun carrier itself. You might count horse artillery in here as well though technically it is not self-propelled.

-Bi-planes, of which there were countless models and numerous functions, were perfected during WWI. Bi-planes were typically made from wood and canvas, especially military ones that had to be built quickly and cheaply, however this was the case of most monoplanes from the era as well due to weight requirements. That said the Germans developed two all or almost all metal monoplanes, one of which was used in military service in WWI. The other was the first all metal fighter aircraft ever, made from duraluminium.

-Navies of the First World War tested and fielded almost all the ships we use today from aircraft carriers to battlecrusiers. However I am not certain how effective all the designs were but I believe all designs by the end of the war were functional at least.

-Poison gas of course.

-Bolt-action magazine-loading rifles were commonplace though singe-shot bolt-actions were also common. The BAR was invented at the end of the war as the first true sub-machine gun that could be fired from the hip. Obviously various different types of machine-gun were designed and used. Fragmentation grenades were designed and used as well. Bayonets were used and I disagree with Kyzarc's statement that they were near useless. The fact that bayonets are still a fundamental part of section battle attacks today highlights how useful a bayonet is. In a massed infantry charge of enemy trenches the socket bayonet was vital otherwise you would reach the enemy trenches and, by the time you had lowered your weapon to shoot the soldier below you, he had shot you.

List of possible units

Infantry

Infantry- the regular rank and file troops given whatever bolt-action rifles are available and basic military training. These guys are used in mass charges and are not expected to last very long. If supplies are in abundance you can equip these guys with grenades. This unit includes bangalores.

Storm troopers- once you identify or create a weak spot in enemy lines you call for the storm troopers. Smaller groups than infantry but far more deadly armed with the magazine bolt-action rifles and fragmentation grenades as standard. Flame-throwers, sub-machine guns etc. are used by these guys if they are available.

Machine-gunner teams- teams of four men armed with whatever machines you have available.

Vehicles

Armoured cars brigade- an attachment for infantry really. Recommended if you need mobility with fire-power or in urban assaults otherwise a tank division would be better. That said tanks are very expensive so if the ground is good enough these could provide light armour support for infantry.

Tank division- 4 mph death on tracks armed with machine-guns and small field guns (37mm, 57mm, 75mm or 77mm guns) along with thick armour that only an anti-tank rifle or artillery could penetrate in one hit but they are very expensive/rare. Use these if other breakthrough attempts fail.

Self-propelled artillery- a 6 in howitzer or 60 pounder field gun could be mounted on these modified tanks. Very, very useful for supporting a breakthrough but more expensive than a tank due to ammunition costs.

Artillery

Mortars- several different calibres are available. Larger calibres such as the 9.45 heavy mortar are used from trenches to shell enemy hard points, smaller calibres such as the 6 inch or 2 inch are used to shell enemy wire or troops. These can also project smoke screens, gas, incendiary devices etc.

[To be completed if desired with heavier artillery, ships and planes]

OOC: Feel free to add anything I missed out.

 

[Immaculate]

thank you vert- thats very helpful.

 

[Kyzarc Fotjage]

-Bolt-action magazine-loading rifles were commonplace though singe-shot bolt-actions were also common. The BAR was invented at the end of the war as the first true sub-machine gun that could be fired from the hip. Obviously various different types of machine-gun were designed and used. Fragmentation grenades were designed and used as well. Bayonets were used and I disagree with Kyzarc's statement that they were near useless. The fact that bayonets are still a fundamental part of section battle attacks today highlights how useful a bayonet is. In a massed infantry charge of enemy trenches the socket bayonet was vital otherwise you would reach the enemy trenches and, by the time you had lowered your weapon to shoot the soldier below you, he had shot you.

"A bayonet remains useful as a utility knife, and as an aid to combat morale. Training in the use of the bayonet has been given precedence long after the combat role of the bayonet declined as it is thought to increase desired aggressiveness in troops.[6] Despite the limitations of the bayonet, many modern assault rifles retain a bayonet lug and the weapon is still issued in many armies." (wiki) It isn't used because of its usefulness of a weapon.
If you're fighting someone in a trench and they're below you then you have to lower your weapon anyways, either to point/shoot or to point/stab.
http://www.firstworldwar.com/weaponry/bayonets.htm
and just because the modern army trains its soldiers in something doesn't mean that that thing is useful, marching being the primary example.

 

[Immaculate]

here is an early draft of what the map descriptions for your fiefdoms will be like- i started doing the maps and the fiefdoms and this is what i got so far.
Errovus Secondus:

Spoiler :

Though a relatively small planet, Errovus Secondus is vastly overpopulated, so much so that terraforming engines must be constantly employed to maintain a breathable atmosphere and clean seas. The planet itself is the first to have been colonized when mankind reached space and as such it contains precious few resources any longer.

Importantly, it is the home to the imperial throne and the imperial garrison, fleet and eye all maintain a large and protective presence on this world.

While much of the population lives at the relative cores of the various continents almost all the coasts are made up of 100s of miles of brimy swamps which are constantly flooded by the rolling seas.

Errovus Secondus seems to constantly be in a state of almost-collapse as it food and energy production are in flux. If it were not for the taxes of the entire known world being funneled to this planet to maintain the imperial government and throne, this planet would have long-ago collapsed upon itself.

Major Populations:

House Query: Serf population of 12.2 million people concentrated in a half-dozen densely populated enclaves

House Quin: Serf population of 430,000 people concentrated in one densely populated enclave.

House of the Holy Gate: Serf population of 800,000 concentrated in two densely populated enclaves.

House Koriate: Serf population of 4.2 million people concentrated in 3 densely populated enclaves.

Asimov

Spoiler :

Asimov is accessible only from the jumpgate of Errobus Secondus (though in times past its jumpgate did access other worlds). Generally the world is covered in thick jungle, though there are exceptions, most notably the poles.

Asimov required considerable terraforming (especially the atmosphere) by the Grand Republic to make it livable and thus it colonization is last of all the current planets of the Known Worlds. Asimove retains much of its exoticism; many of its plants and animals are found only here and many are very deadly. A number of guilds and houses have attempted to develop medicines and biochemistry form Asimov's plant and animal life and many have succeeded.

While Assimov's terrain allows for extensive growth of wildlife, introduced species have not fared well and farming remains limited. This has severely reduced the capacity of the planet to support colonists and as such, noble houses with major populations here are prone to famine and hunger and often find themselves spending their funds on importing food and other resources from the guilds.


Major Populations:

House Quin: Serf population of 8.2 million people concentrated on one continent and two major cities and one mountain fortress.
House Koriate: Serf population of 1.1 million people concentrated on one island in one city.

Major Fiefdoms:

Lan: House Quin Holding (farming, trade and commerce, fishing, house planetary capital), population 1.8 million, major spaceport, extensive warehouses and granaries, farmer’s guild
Denari: House Quin Holding (religious center, research labs, minor farming, fishing and farming): population 105,000
Vader: House Quin Holding (barracks, military stronghold): population 80,000

Keul: House Koriate Holding (farming, fishing, house planetary capital), population 250,000 people

Clarke

Spoiler :

Clarke is land of cold rocky islands in the midst of constantly stormy seas. Remarkably the seas are extremely low in saline content and would largly freeze over around many of the islands if the storms did not prevent it. Despite this bleak descriptor, it is a land of remarkable resources. The seas are very suitable for major aquafarming and fisheries and the islands often hide significant ore deposits. Lastly the seafloors hide many potential oil fields.

During the Symbiot wars the waters of Clarke were extensively infected by the body-snatchers and wars here were a brutal affair fought by specially outfitted navies and divers. Descendents of the veterans of Clarke's reclamation have much to be proud of.


Clarke has jumpgates to Arrakis and Incillia and no direct contact to Errobus Secondus.


Major Populations:
House Query: Serf population of 5.3 million people concentrated on one continent and two major cities.
House Holy Gate: Serf population of 800,000 people concentrated on one arctic continent and around one city.

Major Fiefdoms:
Remsvi: House Query Holding (fishing, ore mining, house planetary capital), population 600,000
Irva: House Query Holdings (fishing, trade): population 720,000, major spaceport
Trichur: House Holy Gate Holding (oil fields, small refinery, minor fishing): population 130,000

Arrakis

Spoiler :

The desert world of Arrakis is a dry desolate plain stretching for seemingly ever and yet it is broken and divided by a multitude of large lakes, rivers and flood plains. While the desert sands are harsh and inhospitable, areas with good water retention are extremely fertile (and indeed many of the staple crops of Errovus origin have been successfully introduced here) and can easily develop large population centers.

While the sands hide few mineral resources, there are signicant oil fields throughout the planet.

Arrakis is accesible from Clarke, Hubbard and Errobus Secondus

Major Populations:

House Query: Serf population of 18.2 million people concentrated around three seas and in six major cities and innumerable smaller villages.

House Koriate: Serf population of 2.2 million people concentrated around one equatorial sea and 2 major cities.

Major Fiefdoms:

Ryavan: House Query Holding (grain farming, fruit orchards, salt-mining, house planetary capital), population 920,000
Vysotsk: House Query Holding (grain farming, fruit orchards, oil fields), population 720,000
Rustav: House Query Holding (grain farming, oil fields, glass-working), population 530,000
Illasky: House Query Holding (grain farming, naval trade), population 380,000
Tyrnyauz: House Query Holding (extensive fruit orchards, imports food), population 220,000
Gryazi: House Query Holding (ore mining (molybium, mica), oil fields, fruit), population 120,000

Harkonnen: House Koriate Holding (grain farming, fruit orchards, house planetary capital), population 210,000
Corrino: House Koriate Holding (grain farming, oil wells), population 120,000

Incillia

Spoiler :

Incillia is a land of beautiful arboreal forests and long cold winters with plenty of snow. Despite this, its inhabitants do fairly well. Farming is concentrated around the equator but produces significant amounts of food for its more densely populated centers here. Away from the equator farming gives way to hunting and trapping the population density drops considerably.

Fishing is also abundant and commercial fisheries are run near the equator while smaller scale projects are popular in colder climes.

Mineral wealth is good though the relative youth of the planet precludes the existance of massive oil fields.

Incillia is accessible via Errovus Secondus, Leageheim and Clarke.

Major Populations:

House Holy Gate: Serf population of 28.7 million people concentrated in one continent and in six major cities and extensive rural farmland.

House Koriate: Serf population of 19.3 million people concentrated on one continent and an associated island

Major Fiefdoms:

Palakkad: House Holy Gate Holding (holy city, farming, fishing), population 1.2 million people, religious center of the Orthodox Holy Gate sect, grain exchange, extensive farmlands
Palghat: House Holy Gate Holding (farming, fishing), population 900,000 people, grain exchange, granaries, extensive farmlands
Poona: House Holy Gate Holding (farming, fishing, house planetary capital), population 1.2 million people, grain exchange, granaries, extensive farmlands
Bezwada: House Holy Gate Holding (farming, fishing), population 720,000 people, extensive farmlands
Vasai: House Holy Gate Holding (farming, fishing, hunting, logging), population 80,000 people
Ooty: House Holy Gate Holding (farming, hunting, coal mining), population 70,000 people

Cappricidia: House Koriate (farming, fishing, trade), population 800,000 people, spaceport
Ludenard: House Koriate (fisheries, minor farmland, copper mines, house planetary capital), population 400,000 people, research facilities
Lodos: House Koriate (ferite, copper, coal mining), population 90,000, large orcish population
Wei: House Koriate (fishing, trade), population 85,000, dreams of magical research as yet unfulfilled

 

[Tyrs]

I guess minor house really does mean minor...

 

[Seon]

Was the mistake you are talking about mixing up the name of my capital city to be Ludenard instead of Kwaraz, Immaculate?

 

[orangelex44]

Oh boy! I feel like a contributor!

 

[Kyzarc Fotjage]

yay, I'm almost alone on my planet!

 

[Ekolite]

EDIT: I think you've missed out thomas Immac.

 

[Immaculate]

Was the mistake you are talking about mixing up the name of my capital city to be Ludenard instead of Kwaraz, Immaculate?

yes it was.... i hope you can accomodate this small change...?

 

[Immaculate]

I've not completed my efforts; this is just what i have so far.... so yeah, i did miss thomas, and a lot of others... i just wanted to share what i had so far.

 

[Seon]

Yeah. Just don't make my character seen as megalomaniacal

 

[Immaculate]

ummm... what did you mean tyrs?

 

[Tyrs]

I figured I'd get a mention on my own homeworld. If you're not done then consider it a joke, heh.

 

[Vertinari118]

"A bayonet remains useful as a utility knife, and as an aid to combat morale. Training in the use of the bayonet has been given precedence long after the combat role of the bayonet declined as it is thought to increase desired aggressiveness in troops.[6] Despite the limitations of the bayonet, many modern assault rifles retain a bayonet lug and the weapon is still issued in many armies." (wiki) It isn't used because of its usefulness of a weapon.
If you're fighting someone in a trench and they're below you then you have to lower your weapon anyways, either to point/shoot or to point/stab.
http://www.firstworldwar.com/weaponry/bayonets.htm
and just because the modern army trains its soldiers in something doesn't mean that that thing is useful, marching being the primary example.

I am now telling you as someone who has experienced military training and spoken to combat soldiers the bayonet is used. The British army section or platoon battle attack basicaly has one fireteam or section pining the enemy and then a flanking manoeuvre from the other section or fireteam. This fireteam/section clears the enemy out aggressively with grenades then a charge. I suppose I have a slightly different viewpoint on the matter because the British are use to CQB were a bayonet mounted on the end of your weapon could be your saving grace. In tench warfare you would not stab the guy then get in the tench, unless the tench was packed full but by if that happened you would probably be dead. You would jump into the tench first or ideally jump, knock the enemy over then stab him.

As for marching and static drill they are also useful because they instil a sense of pride and discipline in a unit and helps recruits learn to obey orders to the letter without pause. In short marching is a very useful training tool.

That said I don't want to start a massive in-thread debate so if you want to carry on the discussion PM me.

Anywho do you want me to continue making a list of possible units Immac? Or are you happy to take over from where I left off last night?

 

[thomas.berubeg]

House Klorin Locations:

Obviously, a holding on Errovus Secundus
A holding on Clarke
a Holding on Arrakis
Headquartered on Incillia

 

[Immaculate]

thanks vert- i think what you have provided should be enough for now- i need to integrate what you have provided and see what i am missing before i move on....

also- priority is map first then units then hopefully we can launch...

I'll get back to you if i need more though - your assistance is much appreciated.

 

[Ekolite]

Will this most likely start sometime in January? Early-Mid january most likely?

I only ask because I have exams from about the 24th to the 1st of Febuary so I may be less active then normal for the first turn or two. Still, things aren't too hectic yet so things should be ok, I don't suppose there'll be a massive amount of attention required for the first couple of turns.

 

[Immaculate]

hopefully it won't be nearly as time consuming for anyone as FFH NES II was.... it will probably start late december or early january... i was thinking within 2 weeks or maybe even 1.