Immortal curs rush tips!

[toob]

Now here comes my 100% truth that everyone who wants to get better at Civ needs to understand for any victory besides Space Race, and even then in some Space Races it still holds true. Universities are awful, they are one of the worst buildings in the game. They are a huge waste of hammers. A good deal of people will try to argue that the NW is sooooo strong that it makes up for it. But it really isn't, it costs a ton of hammers to build, and only provides you with some unneeded beakers at the point in the game where you shouldn't worry about techs. At this point in the game you will always want to be running your culture slider at 30-40%, and most of the time you will only have 20-40% more you can run on your slider. So getting more gold will usually be better so you can use it to research at max when you need to get to something to finish the game. So thus what does 100% beakers do for you? In my eyes nothing at all, and it is a useless building. But not everyone is a pure breed warmonger like me so do as you like, but keep in mind that Unis are a strait awful hammer to beaker conversion, and that building research will get you more beakers than building a Uni.

Holy crap! Anyone seen the Simpsons episode where Homer thinks Bart's teacher's name is Crandall? He puts his hands on his head and screams, "why didn't anybody tell me?" while running out of the room.

That's me, right now ...

Ok, I came back. Triple-W: War is the Way to Win. Being a builder just plain isn't. I must practice!

 

[ben-jammin]

I never said I don't build either the NE or Wealth. I just said that GT is a bit stronger than NE, you could argue that the NE is a little stronger due to only needing a Library to build it, but the top 3 are all about the same power level.

Depends how early you can get the NE out, main problem with it is that usually your best gp farm has pathetic production. If it also has few forests, and you're not lucky enough to have marble, it can feel like it takes forever to build.

Depending on the situation, you also may not have two cities with several 5+ food tiles, so if you want a GT whipping/drafting city you either have to sacrifice great people, or wait until you no longer need great people. Keep in mind most people dont play on large maps, let alone huge.

Totally agree on Oxford and unis, though. Way, way too many hammers for a reward that's too late for anything but space victory.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Holy crap! Anyone seen the Simpsons episode where Homer thinks Bart's teacher's name is Crandall? He puts his hands on his head and screams, "why didn't anybody tell me?" while running out of the room.

That's me, right now ...

Ok, I came back. Triple-W: War is the Way to Win. Being a builder just plain isn't. I must practice!

Because most people, even the good ones, think Unis are good.

Depends how early you can get the NE out, main problem with it is that usually your best gp farm has pathetic production. If it also has few forests, and you're not lucky enough to have marble, it can feel like it takes forever to build.

Depending on the situation, you also may not have two cities with several 5+ food tiles, so if you want a GT whipping/drafting city you either have to sacrifice great people, or wait until you no longer need great people. Keep in mind most people dont play on large maps, let alone huge.

Totally agree on Oxford and unis, though. Way, way too many hammers for a reward that's too late for anything but space victory.

Mm well I tend to have a lot of land early due to warring with Catapults very consistently. So I don't really run into the situations where you have to choose one of the other. But then the choice becomes do you have a stronger HE city or stronger commerce city.

 

[Nick Carpathia]

Surely it depends on the map, and what kind of victory condition you're aiming for. Post-astronomy intercontinental conquest? Oxford maybe. Space? Oxford.

But yeah, you can get your Curaissier rush date down earlier by skipping Oxford.

 

[vranasm]

granary, rax, stables, forges everywhere (good to find era to run OR while whipping these), library (if creative more or running out of builds) to get 2-3 GS's, getting music is optimal, sometimes I whip in temples/monasteries of AP religion if it spreads well. CH's after you captured first 2 AI's (around 15 cities)

1 big city (capital) stays unwhipped and HE city (if you have access), whip everything else. If marble Taj is very good option so doing Lib->Nat otherwise Lib->MT if you have time.

1k AD attack date is good date on Immortal

Engineering tends to be very good tech to get in some trades.

Biggest problem usually is who to attack first.

 

[krikav]

How much food suprlus would you want in a GT city?

At what population would you want to maintain it?

When to build the GT there, and what to do with this city before there is something relevant to whip?

What else to build in this city?

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

How much food surplus would you want in a GT city?

At what population would you want to maintain it?

When to build the GT there, and what to do with this city before there is something relevant to whip?

What else to build in this city?

You are going to want either 3+ strong food, or 2 strong food with a bunch of green land that can be farmed.

You don't really need to maintain a high population in it, you just want to have it be able to grow a pop every turn.

Build settlers, workers, run Scientists, and such.

Normal buildings that should be built. Barracks, granaries, forges.

 

[krikav]

As I suspected, the demand for food is immense.

I don't think that one can satisfy these requirements in all maps.

If one can't get a site with that much food, is GT out alltogether then?
Makes little sense to have a whip-metropolis that you can't whip.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

@Krikav:
A minima, you need 8 food surplus at size 5 for a Globe Theater city, normal speed. This guarantees growth to size 6 in two turns.
Then... the more food surplus, the better.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

It's actually not that rare to get food cities like the mentioned. I regularly see 3 Fish cities, even see more 3 clam 1 fish cities. But it's just as easy to find cities with say 1 Pig, 1 Corn, and a bunch of non riverside green tiles, also the jungle will often provide you with these insane cities with 5+ 4 food tiles, and the rest green.

 

[Doshin]

Zx, do you bother with AP hammer buildings?

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

It depends on when it is built, if it is built early enough, or I already have the religion spread yes. They are very strong buildings with the hammer bonus.

 

[Mantic0re]

Wow, this was a very eye-opening thread.

1. I'm surprised that stables are considered weak and not worth building.
2. I don't think I've ever pushed so hard for warfare production that I needed the slider.
3. 2-3 mounted lost / city is ok, more than that is not good. I can't seem to keep my loses that low on Monarch (curs vs longbows/pikes/phants)
4. always thought HE was for the hammer city you don't whip, never thought to use it for the food monster - GT type city.

 

[Gumbolt]

Wow, this was a very eye-opening thread.

1. I'm surprised that stables are considered weak and not worth building.
2. I don't think I've ever pushed so hard for warfare production that I needed the slider.
3. 2-3 mounted lost / city is ok, more than that is not good. I can't seem to keep my loses that low on Monarch (curs vs longbows/pikes/phants)
4. always thought HE was for the hammer city you don't whip, never thought to use it for the food monster - GT type city.

@ 4 - I always kept it in the production city. Mainly because a good HE city will produce a curs in 1-3 turns. On which basis you would only need to whip it sparingly if at all.

Why have HE in a heavy food city?? It will add maybe 6-7 production a turn compared to 20-30 in a heavy food city. You only need 10 production on normal to make a 3 pop whip anyway.


@ 3 - I am still not sure how players are keeping losses so low. I suspect they are getting their curs out much sooner. Zero has not posted any of his pre war curs saves. This might of been interesting to see. Not using the slider is probably due to the high losses. Zero talks of starting a war with 15 units but on some games a strong Ai can have a stack of 20 or so units.

You are playing Monarch. The Ai will be a bit slower for engineering and other techs. I suspect this more to do with your start of game.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

@ 3 - I am still not sure how players are keeping losses so low. I suspect they are getting their curs out much sooner. Zero has not posted any of his pre war curs saves. This might of been interesting to see. Not using the slider is probably due to the high losses. Zero talks of starting a war with 15 units but on some games a strong Ai can have a stack of 20 or so units.

It is not hard to lure units out of cities by flanking another city, and then picking off units that are on defenseless terrain. A longbow is much weaker when it is not in a city, as is a pike. But yes faster Cuirs means less loses due to the AI having less units.

I am sorry, but it would be not so fun to try, and find a single save for you as I delete all of my saves regularly. Plus currently my save folder has like 600 different saves, and is something like 8 GB large.

Also when you slow down your war a little, and don't suicide your stacks to take a single city you get more war weariness.

Lastly you need to remember you don't need to attack the strongest AI first. You can bully a much weaker one into becoming your vassal while getting more units before you go after one of the real AI on the map. Not to mention that if you fight their stack in the field you will have much higher odds you decimating it than if you attack it in a city.

 

[Mantic0re]

Relevant side question: How do you promote the curs. We are talking about an extended series of wars so I'd think the flanking line to help reduce losses would be attractive. I know this is an old conversation but the issue really seems to be one of personal preference.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Combat, Medic 1 + the heal while moving one, and a couple with shock.

 

[Doshin]

@1: Stables are worth building in cities that will produce HAs or elephants to be upgraded. This gets them to level 2 without needing to switch into theocracy. HE and GT spots should probably have stables too. When you get to build cuirs, you can just switch into theo for the rest of your cities to get the instant promotions.

Every once in a while I give flanking to a handful of units, only to watch them die without doing any damage. It's a bad upgrade for weak units.