Immortal Hall Game 2

[NeoDar]

Thank all of you who played and showed interest in the first game... Here is the next one.

We are going to be leading Wu Zetian and the Chinese on a standard size Pangaea map with everything on the default (yes ruins, yes barbs).

This planet is getting cramped and you want some more elbow room. Your either going to control this planet or find a new one (domination or science only). Also, as a rule you can't steal an early worker.

The starting location is below. We seem to have no luck in the hall with being strapped for resources in both games with only spices and silver immediately here. Good luck and remember to post below.

 

[Sigvardt]

You forgot quick combat

I think I'll give it a try still.

 

[Nightshades]

Two turns to get to the hills

 

[chazzycat]

riverside plains? count me in.

 

[Tabarnak]

You forgot quick combat

Follow this to get rid of animations :

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10287901&postcount=15

 

[The Pilgrim]

I give it a go. Planned to try China in Civ5 for a long time. Currently on turn 104. Chu-ko-nu's are fun.

Spoiler :

Settled in place, which turned out to be right decision. My initial building order: scout-worker-monument but I could easily give up on monument at the beginning since we're surrounded by friendly cultured CS. Allied with Florence early on to finish Liberty. Unfortunately my scout was eaten somewhere near Arabs, so I haven't met two of the opponents and many CS's yet. And managed to pick up just one hut with barb location in it.

Tech wise I began with Mining, Pottery, Writing, then beelined for chu-ko-nu's. Got Engineering through GL and bulbed Machinery with Liberty finisher. Found second city down the river on the hill with cows, two silver, wheat, two sheep and the mountain. Another great spot. While beelining tried to steal GW, didn't get it though. Luckily it was built by mysterious somebody in a far away land, so it won't be a problem. I wouldn't get him/her before Dynamite.

August the Idiot brought 5 or 6 warriors to my borders around turn 65-70 (being friendly of course). He backstabbed me in every single game I played against him, so no surprises here (the only one - it happened quite late). All of a sudden his "army" moved to the east, passed my cities and made me think he's moving towards Iroquois. However he returned ten or so turns later and then DoWed me. Speaking of unpredictable diplomacy. Couldn't get what was the purpose of the delay but well... BTW, few turns later he DoWed Harun. Again don't ask me why...
Anyway, by that point I've already started to kick out archers so he had to back off. Machinery and GG came in just in time for the upgrades and taking Rome was a piece of cake. Caesar himself offered Cumae with his only iron (was never utilized ) for a peace treaty.

Science is a bit slow, but NC will be finished in 10 turns and Education is coming in soon, they'll speed things up. Silly me, I was sure victory conditions are domination and culture, so I didn't force science, because culture is not an option for me. But now actually is a good time to rethink further strategy. There is gold resource between Shanghai and Cumae I wanna grab. Another decent city spot with cows horses and remaining silver to the SE from the capital. There is enough space to expand without annoying any neighbors. With nice chain of CS's and mountains I'll be safe till the end of the game. The only issue - my army is big and chu-ko-nu's are restless. Aiming for space will be a waste. Maybe I should bug Arabs a little bit, they are at war with my friend Cathy. She is stuck in southern tundra mostly, so nothing too exciting there. Hiawatha is also a friend, expanding somewhat towards me. Genghis, on the other hand, expands like crazy. 10 cities already including Almaty. But I have no idea where he is. And frankly I prefer to deal with him post-keshiks. I won't be able to enter Renaissance before next policy - also dilemma. Need to sleep on this, I guess.

 

[Sigvardt]

Currently on my 2nd attempt.

Spoiler :

In my first attempt I went Tradition and wanted to aim for a space victory, but Rome messed that up. I was able to get Knights and Chu-Ko-Nu's but even tough he was at war with the Arabs all the time I was not able to make a push for Rome fast enough. That damn Great Wall.

In my 2nd attempt I decided to do as The Pilgrim. I went Liberty and settled my 2nd city to the south on a hill near some silver/sugar/cattle/wheat (same spot as my first game)

As per my first game sure enough Rome declared war on turn 54. He also built the Great Wall again. I managed to fend him off and after getting mining/writing I went straight for Chu-Ko-Nu's.

Like The Pilgrim I decided to ally Florence. They have a lux I do not, and wont get anytime soon, and I needed the extra culture to get a GS to pop Machinery. This turned out to be a very good move. They have no less than TWELVE iron

I made a mistake in my choice of polices. I should have taken, forgot the name, the policy that starts a golden age and lowers the cost of policy cost for cities settled before meritocracy. That plus Florence would have gotten med Chu's faster not to mention swordsmen. Rome would have fallen earlier then.

I tend to dislike domination victories as I hate moving all those units around and usually am worse at war then science etc but with the Great Wall protecting my own lands and the mountain range offering good protection I guess taking the rest of the roman lands to make a empire and then go on a spree would be a wise choice.

The situation right after Rome fell. (I went Patronage for my 2nd social tree since keeping Florence is vital to my armed strenght.

 

[Vo01985]

Ooh I love China. I will probably try this one after my current Siam game is finished. I will probably go Honor and make 2 or 3 cities, beeline to Machinery and start taking over the world!

 

[The Pilgrim]

2Sigvardt:

Spoiler :

That damn Great Wall.

Hey, even better. Now you have it. With all the hills around Rome it shouldn't matter. As for the regular Walls "my" Rome also had them. Nothing chu-ko-nu's can't handle. But now I know who had the audacity to build the GW in my game. Haven't met Egyptians yet. Are you at war with them?

The situation right after Rome fell.

"Your" Cumae covers that gold! Nice.

Any particular reason to build catapults? It didn't even cross my mind.

Just out of curiosity: when we're allowed to steal workers?

 

[Sigvardt]

2Sigvardt:

Spoiler :

Hey, even better. Now you have it. With all the hills around Rome it shouldn't matter. As for the regular Walls "my" Rome also had them. Nothing chu-ko-nu's can't handle. But now I know who had the audacity to build the GW in my game. Haven't met Egyptians yet. Are you at war with them?


"Your" Cumae covers that gold! Nice.

Any particular reason to build catapults? It didn't even cross my mind.

Just out of curiosity: when we're allowed to steal workers?

Spoiler :

I've not seen their capital but they had a city on the other side of the mountains next to Florence.

Currently augustus is down to 1 city but he refuses to accept peace. It might be because I left him with two cities then found out that one of them had a sugar I could sell and 6 iron so I declared on him and took it. Guess I'll just have to terminate him completly.

My next target is going to be the arabs but that might be harder. He has been expanding like mad and turtling, building wonders that increase his city strenght.

Khan is running away with the game tough. He is massive now and has just over 3 times my strength in military. Problem is I cant readily get to him.

It seems that every game I play Khan runs away unless terminate him ASAP or he is next to Siam.

Really annoying.

Egypt is getting desperate in my game. In my screenie he got 2 chariots and a warrior near me. About 10 turns later he DoW's me. Florence takes out some of his units and I wipe out a warrior and almost a chariot. He then sues for peace giving me a lux, his gold, GPT and open borders.

I still cant understand you can code an AI so bad that it declares hopless war then suicides itself in a peace agreement

I am not sure I can win this tough. Maybe I have to leave the arabs and focus on expansion/empire building and a spaceship.

I tend to want 4 cata/trebs/cannons/arty as a bare minimum. I will make a lot more if I go all out war.

Not sure but I have gotten some workers from the war with Rome, but that was not an early one. The way I read it is that we are not allowed to go up to say, Sidon, and nab theirs while also getting one from Liberty early on.

Current situation

Considering the arab expansion I am boxed in by them. So I can either stay where I am and go for space or kick their arse.

 

[Nickl245]

I'm around turn 84.

Spoiler :

Been at war with Rome (his DoW) from about turn 37 to 80, spambuilt archers and sac'd a couple of warriors to push him back, Shanghai went to about a third of its hp on his early warrior rush but I fixed it with a bought silver tile hookup+sell, then repeated to steady up.

Peaced him a few turns ago when our military was about equal.
Current plan is to beeline to Machinery, upgrade all archers to Choks and take Rome. Not sure after that yet.

Total Silver Control if I build a 4th city but I'm not sure about it yet, went liberty opener for the free settler and worker, hard build my second settler, then tradition opener in case I needed Oligarchy as a crutch, luckily I didn't, so took Piety opener and grabbing Org Religion next I think to get a G Age on the way

 

[The Pilgrim]

2Sigvardt:

Spoiler :

I've not seen their capital but they had a city on the other side of the mountains next to Florence.

I can see their borders but we still haven't met.

Currently augustus is down to 1 city but he refuses to accept peace. It might be because I left him with two cities then found out that one of them had a sugar I could sell and 6 iron so I declared on him and took it. Guess I'll just have to terminate him completly.

You have nothing to lose. You'll be hated anyway.

My next target is going to be the arabs but that might be harder. He has been expanding like mad and turtling, building wonders that increase his city strenght.

Khan is running away with the game tough. He is massive now and has just over 3 times my strength in military. Problem is I cant readily get to him.

I can barely believe any of this can be a problem. AI is horrible at war, no wonders or masses of units can help it. If you have a tech lead you should be ok, although from what I can see it's pretty slow. Did you get universities?

It seems that every game I play Khan runs away unless terminate him ASAP or he is next to Siam.

Siam??? Do you mean Egypt? No Siam here. I would love to have Siam instead of Alex.

I still cant understand you can code an AI so bad that it declares hopless war then suicides itself in a peace agreement

Neither can I. Sad indeed. It happens all the time regardless who the leader is.

I am not sure I can win this tough. Maybe I have to leave the arabs and focus on expansion/empire building and a spaceship.

It depends. Where are your opponents tech wise? For my personal taste fighting with chu-ko-nu's after 1000AD is not the best choice. Rifles gonna eat them. Unless you bring tons of them. Maybe you should focus on infrastructure and boosting your science. AI is quite strong at this point and there is too much of it left. Dunno... Probably I would settle another city on the hill next to the stone, raze Muscat and capture Yamama and then see. At a very least you can milk Harun for money. He usually has zillions.

I tend to want 4 cata/trebs/cannons/arty as a bare minimum. I will make a lot more if I go all out war.

But why? Chu-ko-nu's have the same range strength as cats, double combat strength, don't need a setup and can shoot twice per turn. Sure they're more expensive but not so much if you upgrade archers.

Not sure but I have gotten some workers from the war with Rome, but that was not an early one. The way I read it is that we are not allowed to go up to say, Sidon, and nab theirs while also getting one from Liberty early on.

Yeah. I understand the rules the same way you did. I haven't stolen a worker from CS early on. My question was when we actually can steal a worker. Let's say 0AD or what?

 

[The Pilgrim]

Turn 134.

Spoiler :

Apparently Arabs were just three tiles away from Cumae, so it's a no brainer. No spaceships for me. Captured Baghdad, Damascus and Mecca, leaving them with Medina with Machu Picchu and newly acquired Himeji Castle. Harun offered me 55 GPT, so I graciously let him live. For now.

Pushing towards Cathy. Likely she'll be the last chu-ko-nu's victim. Her cities are pathetic, so I'm gonna raze most of them. Meanwhile Genghis fights both Iroquois and Greeks. No major wins/loses. Just doing my job and wearing each other down. Hopefully one of them will take care of Egypt for me as well. Based on score it needs to be put out of a misery. He does have GW though. Maybe I'll grab it before them.

Allied Sidon recently. Hiawatha's closing in, took my city spot and his outdated kamikazes are sniffing around. Since he and Cathy are best friends it only makes sense to open second front against him. I'll kick out some units in my original two cities and will see. Florence might be helpful too. Just might be. From my experience CS are even worse fighters than major civs.

Spent second GG on GA but need only 27XP to the next one. After Cathy and some Hiawatha I plan to join both fronts and go after the really annoying ones. Alex hates me (no way! ) but I don't know where he is. Mongols indeed are running away. Not too much though. Iroquois and Greeks are close second and third, I'm currently fourth in score, third in tech. Caching up here.
Built Hagia and rushed Porcelain Tower with GE. Sadly Alex built my Notre Dame, but so far unhappiness is manageable. I'm gonna hard tech Gunpowder and bulb Metallurgy and Rifling with GS's just after Cathy is over. Maybe I'll need to ally another cultured CS to speed up policies. Next one has to be Military Cast, and the next one will unlock Rationalism, so I finally will be able to RA my way up. Mongols and Iroquios hit Renaissance already. In this area I'm still behind.

 

[NeoDar]

Guys about the early worker, it's not supposed to be real specific. Basically you can't declare war on a city state JUST for their worker.

 

[Kbo]

Spoiler :

Well, I doubt we're going to find a more standard game on Imm to win a space race

Met Caesar on turn 6, experience dictated that he was going to be a major pain, went mining ---> archery before going through for writing. Turns out it was a smart move as he declared on turn 30, with his 5 warriors giving my archers a lovely XP boost

After settling two early cities (one from hard building and the other from Liberty) around our warmongering friend as I didnt find anything but CS on the other side, I spammed about 7 archers for pure defense, grabbed calendar and trapping for gold/happiness and beelined for machinery, since I figured I'd need rome to keep pace with the warmongers I'd met....

Dropped a third city close to Caesar so I could settle my other cities at my leisure


Taking candy from a baby with Chukos


And a little added bonus!


Decided I needed PT if I was going to get anywhere, so did the traditional liberty slingshot and got HS with it, and used a GS to pop astronomy before my next policy to grab rationalism, sold off a bunch of silver to fund RAs, and spammed like crazy. Best part was that my science dropped off to the point where Harum, Alex and Hiawatha all made it to Renaissance a few turns before me, made them a lot cheaper

Long story short, it was clear sailing up until I hit industrial and a dogpile of Harun Cathy and Hia all decided to jump on me, seriously slowed me down, I really should focus a lot more on millitary while going through for science, rather than just a force of units to hold off certain areas. RA timing was good though, finished Apollo while I was teching my last part


Played an average game, though im definetly able to see my weak parts alot better now. Ending Demos and winning SS



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[Sigvardt]

Grats to Kbo for launching a spaceship

This kind of challenge is a really good way to learn more about the game. I was getting somewhat bored with Civ5 because I never really knew what I wanted to do when I set up a game. The challenge takes care of that.

After reading the entire thread and Kbo's rundown I restarted mine. Based on your games it was obvious I was not doing it right. I figured I'd never manage a wonder on this level of play, but I learned I was wrong.

Spoiler :

As of turn 140.

Normally I am not very aggressive about city placement, but what this have learnt me is that being aggressive is good way to get an upper hand. I also learned that you do indeed not need siege weapons when you got Chu-Ko-Nu's. I guess a part of my normal problems with war is that I tend to think I need more to win.

Turns out you I do not. Just let them AI waste units then go for the kill.

I managed to grab The Great Library and Hagia Sophia

Mining -> Archery

Writing

Beeline to Chu-Ko-Nu's using a GS from Liberty finisher to pop Machinery.

Beeline to Education. Use a GE from Hagia Sophia to rush the Porclain Tower.

Placed my second city near the goldmine. Caesar did not like that, but who cares, we all know that he'll declare on you whatever you do. Built six archers and two warriors.

He got pissy about me claiming his land and eventually declared. The slaughter from the archers near Shanghai was glorious. He sued for peace but I denied him. More units for from him was sent to be slaughtered. Eventually I got a good enough peacedeal that I took it. I knew he was going to declare again anyway.

I used the peace to shape up my lands, something I had neglected in the two other games, and two turns after I got my Cho-Ku-Nu's he declared war again.

This time I slaughtered his units and advanced on Rome that fell easily to my chuks.

I did not manage to get into Renaissance before my next policy was up. I opted to take Commerce as the gold boost is not bad and I will get the reduction on roads and perhaps the bonus to gold purchase.

I currently have two GS and I think I'll pop Rifles ASAP once I hit renaissance.

I think that right now both space and conquest is open to me. Khan is not running away, he an Alex are about the same size and seems to not like eachother much.

This time around Rome did not build the Great Wall. I have wiped them out and secured six iron and a huge swat of land.

Plan is to sweep down and kill the arabs and settle two cities east of my capital.

Edit:

For a change I am no the smallest in score. Cathy, Rammy and Hiawatha are smaller. I am only sixth in Literacy which I will have to fix.

 

[NeoDar]

We have our first winner in both games.

 

[Tabarnak]

Here is my 2nd attempt. First one was ok it's just i didn't follow the worker rule...i was pretty tired that day. But i played only 60 turns.

To not disturb it, i followed the same path for my warrior and scout for the first 15 turns. With Rome close to me, i expected some warring soon. So my strategy was to mine the 2 silvers and pasture the horses very fast and sell some to Cesar. It worked, i could sold 2 times 1 silver and 1 time horses before he declared war. I also declared war to Sidon for a worker but stayed at war with. I will capture this city later i guess.

I got like 1200 gold after 60 turns. I'm beelining CKNs right now, allied Florence for iron and prepare myslef to enter Rome's territory.

Spoiler :

 

[Tabarnak]

Things continued fine, got Machinery turn 85. I upgraded 4 archers and went kill some Roman units. Meanwhile, Egypt surrounded a city and declared war too! I rushed a CKN and he killed everything with help from Florence. Then some turns later :

Spoiler :

Excellent. I captured Rome and continued to bully him. I made peace but not without a bunch of goodys in exchange. I continued to sold spare happiness and will begin the construction of HS soon to build ND later. I'm going Piety for happiness. I will take care of Sidon soon and will settle the gold mine site(razed roman city earlier). Both armies are strong enough right now, i will rush buy if i get spare gold or simply suicide swordmen if needed for faster pace and replace them with cheap warriors(delaying metal casting).

Checkpoint turn 101 :

Spoiler :

I'm definitively going for a domination victory

EDIT : Update turn 117

Couldn't resist to search for Harun's capital...i made a peace deal with 2 other cities. Droped to -22 happiness. I traded a lux 1 for 1 with Hiawatha to calm down at -18...waiting for HS in 5 slow turns. I need to recover before any future expansion. I like this big empire.

Spoiler :

EDIT 2 : Update turn 140

After some turns of peace Hiawatha declared war. I captured Cape town(Iroquois's ally) and went down south with LS and CKNs. DoF Russia and took Moscow. I made peace with both of them with another big chunk of cities. I only miss 2 unique luxuries(cotton and incense) and i'm at -39 happiness. I need more policies and temples to reduce all this stuff. I sold 2 cities to Greece but i keep others. I think the best solution will be to mass annex everything for the next 20 turns before Rifles. Entered GA(from a spare gs, after taken pictures below) and making over 135 gpt right now. Everyone is broken except Ghengis. I'm at par with him in techs. I'm slightly behind in production despite my huge unhappiness. I'm obviously way ahead for gnp.

My 22 cities :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

 

[Sigvardt]

Third time is a charm I guess. I launched my spaceship. I could have gone for domination or sience since, as you can see in the demo, I was over twice as large in armed might compared to #2. But I calculated that it would take me longer to do than just built a spaceship so I opted for that. Mostly because my fight with the Arabs got a bit drawn out adding more turns than I wanted.

I have a save so I can go back and do a domination win instead, but I am not sure I feel like it. Spent a lot of time on this game.

Spoiler :

I am getting very tired of the diplomatic in this game. Hiawatha was a royal PITA. He would declare war, send a token unit, sue for peace and then repeat it. This was even before I squashed Russia and had a major borderline with him.

Ramses was equally mental and would declare only to make me sweet peace deals.

Alex was a good sport the entire game, but when I got bigger (in terms of military) than him he turned and got real pissy.

I have no idea why Khan got wiped by Alex. He had the ability to make nukes, I even gave him extra Uranium, since I wanted Alex hurt, but he only ever made one based on what I could see from having Sattelites. I had Manhattan, so did Alex, Hiawatha and Khan.

I ended up being the dominant nuclcear power tough. It's a good weapon to have and I figure it kept Hiawatha playing nice near the end. I would have been able to nuke his core cities to a wasteland and he would not be able to retaliate.