Immortal University 90 - Hammurabi

[Chase_2_Rabbits]

@cseanny

Spoiler :

Interesting approach, but how do you not get raped by Shaka as you're plodding along (virtually defenceless) to Alpha in ~1800BC like everyone else? It seems like you didn't build the marble/horses city towards Shaka as most people (including me) did, perhaps that helps?

When I replayed the map, I wasted time teching Archery so I could use Bowmen to defend against Shaka, or even persuade him to pick on someone else; but he *still* declared on me with 4 Bowmen defending his target city; and eventually the RNG trolled me out of the city.

Not really a fun map. Shaka's got a nice cap & metal; if he goes for you, you're dead. So the playability hinges on a decision you have minimal control over.

 

[klonoklown]

To the folks newer to IU

Spoiler :

Try choking shaka. I have one game going where I stole 6 workers from him and he only has 2 cities. (its about 1000bc) Try to deny him access to the gold (east side of his capital's BFC) and copper. I think teching archery isn't a waste, bowmen should work well for choking.

Any time you have a very aggressive AI, such as: monty, ragnar, nappy, you either should get them to pleased or friendly as fast as possible, or figure out a way to wipe them out. Even though I didn't make any changes to the map or AI placement, I thought this would be a good learning experience. Mainly because of no copper available to us right away.

Also I only play on emperor, and the game stated above is my 2nd try. I also got stomped by shaka in my first game, about 1500bc DOW.

Edit:In case someone doesn't know, watch out for shaka's UU, the Impi, because it has a movement of 2.

 

[MeowZeDung]

Ragequit.

Spoiler :

I. Am. So. Sick. Of. Lone. Barb. Archers. Taking. Cities. At. Stupid. Low. Odds.

Will replay this one later this week since I think a dominant position can be reached easily enough.

 

[Ecori]

Replayed the map until 425bc:

Spoiler :

Went pretty early archery for the Bowman. Stole Shakas worker at his second city, which slowed him down tremendously. Placed my bowmen strategically to absorb his impis. Managed to destroy another worker. Oracle went in 475bc

In 425bc I have 5 cities and lots of workers. Quiete a few bowman and chariots. A barb city spawned by the gems and I am about to capture it Sury is at 3 cities! All my cities have granaries and barracks and 3 have libraries. I just teched Aesth and traded it around to backfill and bribe Shaka out of the war. An academy is coming in. Plan is to tech construction and destroy Shaka who is at 4 citiies atm.

 

[rfcfanatic]

Prince/Normal.

This is one sort of map where early war should be completely avoided. At least, no offensive war before Rifle/Cannon era. Because if you don't, you will end up like this:

Spoiler :

and the bigger picture:



As you can see, my economy has been completely crushed. I was on the top of the score card before I went into this stupid war with Shaka. How come that 8 of my catapults die on just only one friggin' longbow ?

This map is complete crap with no good spots for food or production cities. That's why I cottaged the crap out of the west coast because there was basically nothing else to do than to spam cottages.

Played this map 2 times already and failed. First time, I got owned by Shaka already in 1000 BC. Now I managed to survive until Renaissance, but without this stupid war the situation would have been much better.

 

[kossin]

^^^

Spoiler :

Lower science slider to 0 and raise culture to keep your citizens happy.
Kill Shaka and resume science in a much better shape.

 

[Izuul]

I've been on a Civ IV break to play some Path of Exile, but i might give this one a go since i can't even remember the last time i played as Hammy.

 

[Pengu]

There is one way this should be done. Just have to get some timing and luck.

Spoiler :

Fact 1 Shaka starts nearby. Will attack sooner rather than later. Got a great starting area. Gold and metal and lots of FP.
The solution?
Let Shaka expand to 2 cities. Steal worker(s) and choke with chariots. Block him from working the gold and copper. Stay with 2 maximum or 3 cities cause of maintinence.
When you got enough chariots fool Shaka inte believing you will attack his 2nd city. That will move most of his stack there. Rush with all your chariots towards his cap which should only have 3-4 archers at most. Unless you get super unlucky you got his cap.
Now his 2nd city isn't on a hill and he will never get acces to metal. Bye bye Shaka.
Problem is Khmer has a huge great starting area so this operation can't take too long. Must be in the BC's. I did this on my 2nd try and almost made it if his stupid archer hadn't killed 5 chariots.

 

[rfcfanatic]

OK, the third attempt. This time the situation is a little bit better I guess

Spoiler :

I fought a war against Shaka. A defensive war. Which is a way cooler than offensive war because the war won't screw everything up.

Yeah, I thought about meddling with the slider but then again... it's a trick for civ4 immortals/deities which means that if I do it I'll probably screw it up and end up still having musketmen in 1750. Just like I did in IU 89 De Gaulle.

Opis will soon finish Globe Theatre. After researching Nationhood and Steel, I'll start there drafting rifles and whipping cannon like mad. This time I didn't combine GT with HE. With so little productive land I decided to have 2 military cities. The second one is Akkad where HE has been built.

 

[Ecori]

Immortal, normal, until 1090ad:

Spoiler :

After buying peace with Shaka for Aesth I teched towards Construction while tech trading liberally. Shaka went after Sally immediately after we got peace. When Construction and HBR got in I started mass whipping Elephants and Catas in all 6 cities.

I hit Shaka (now at peace with Sally) in around 300-400ad with an army mixed of Catas, Phants, Bowmen and Chariots (that was used for capturing a barb city by sury). The war lasted until around 900ad with the elimination of Shaka. All my cities except the cap was whipped down to 2-3 pop. Shaka was so kind as to build Mids, GW and Paya in Ulundi.. I regrouped and attacked Sury (tech leader) with 3 armies. After taking 4 cities he capped in 1090ad.

I now have 16 cities one vassal and Shaka is dead. I think I will move on to attack Giggles right away followed by Cathy. Sally is the only remaining competitor to the victory.

My core land:

Notice the massive unhappiness from whipping and defying an AP resolution.

One of the cities:


Shakas old land is starting to help out alot in the war efforts:


And Surys land:

The city to the NW is and old barb city I captured.

The tech situation:

It actually doesn't look so bad... I think I will just tech to Engineering and kill the remainder of the world with Trebs and Maces/Phants. Though 2 Prot AIs remain..

My standing army (second largest in the world):


Total production is kinda insane..


I think it really is just a matter of mopping up the rest, and the game is over.

 

[rfcfanatic]

1852 AD

Spoiler :

Shaka is dead and the Khmer is dead and Darius is my vassal through capitulation. After Shaka's invasion forces being crushed by my defenses and him being trolled by the AP voting, he decided to go and bully Sury. Shaka had already bullied Darius to capitulation from earlier time. Now, the list of Shaka's vassals got one more addition. Soon after, he DoW'ed on me again. A true warmonger he is

Shaka had massive forces, but his medieval units were no match to my Rifles/Cannon. By the time he got Grenadiers, I was already a few turns away from Infantry. I am still astonished of his ability to recover so quickly after his massive stack gets wiped out and after he already had lost a couple of cities. Anyway, I finished off both Shaka and Sury who had already been weakened by Shaka. I left Darius alive, because I didn't have any of his cities and his lands were too far away. Also, when war with Saladin breaks out, he will help me to force Saladin to fight on two opposite fronts. I need to gift him Assembly Line. Otherwise, Saladin's infantry will finish his rifles quickly.

Saladin is the tech and wonder whore of the game. He stole SoL and the Pentagon from me. I probably have to fight him with tech parity like I did in Zara Yaqob NC game. But I guess I'm gonna finish Gilgamesh and his vassal Catherine first. I need Artillery anyway to counter Sally's Infantry. My Cannon would die on his protective Infantry just like Catapults die on Longbows.

I can use 2 GP to run a GA. During the GA, I'll switch from Nationhood to Bureaucracy to help my tech rate a little bit (I built Oxford in Babylon). Infantry is not as good draft fodder as Rifles anyway. As soon as I discover Communism, I'll run the GA and also switch from Free Market to State Property (to reduce maintenance costs and increase productivity) and From Hereditary Rule to Representation. Yes, I'm still on Hereditary Rule! HR fodder was the only way I had to increase happiness in my cities to let them grow. But now I have captured some happiness resources and can switch away.

In the last turn of the GA, I'll switch from Rep to Police State. Then it's time to start produce units on industrial scale!

 

[Robert FIN]

My sucky prince attempt: -150BC

Spoiler :

Ok, so I settled in the place:


And I met these AIs:





And I DoWed to Shaka, my closest neightbor instantly:


That was a HUGE mistake. I sieged the city of Ulundi and stole their worker but I couldn't take the city. Horrible... They just made like 10 new archer and the city is in hill and they have walls or something...My research went to 0% and I had to retreat. Now research slider is 50%. I'm below in tech and that sucks! What to do? I'm boxed in bc Gilga stole the barb city in east. I'm screwed, HELP!!

Please help!! Should I play this again? Is this winable??

Save file:

 

[Ecori]

Immortal normal, 1510ad Domination Win:

Spoiler :

After capping Sury I went attacking Giggles right away with my Phants and Cats. After taking 3 cities and smashing his stack he capped


Then I proceeded by declaring on Cathy. She capped after 1 city and her stack got destroyed


I traded for Engi with Giggles and started building Trebs.
I hit Sally with Mostly Phants, Cats and a few Trebs. He capped after smashing his stack and taking 3 cities.


The next turn in 1510ad a domination win was achieved


Power graph:


I build over 200 units in this game


And some screenies that show how little techs matter when you have units:

Very fun game (though tough start)!

Thx for hosting klonoklown

 

[rfcfanatic]

After two failed attempts, my third game finally ended with Domination victory in 1931 AD. Really tough starting situation it was!

Spoiler :

Power graph:



Yeah, Arabia had gone for some serious wonder building spree in Mecca. Taj Mahal, SoL and The Pentagon were the ones which loss made me to spit some serious curses towards Sally



Army composition:



Like Ecori said, techs matter little when you have units. Sally had Tanks - no problem! I just needed to add some Anti-Tanks to the stack. Not only numbers matter but training also. Akkad, my HE and Military Academy city, was generating units every turn with experience 18, which basically meant Combat IV + Pinch or Combat V Infantry or CR III + Barrage I Artillery.

The map itself was not crap. Sorry for making such declaration under severe frustration But the starting situation was. But...cottage spam can even turn a bad land into a good one.

 

[Hollow Bow]

Second attempt got bogged down when shaka got feudalism before I had 'finished' him and I was way behind in tech.

Third attempt

Spoiler :

went for the warrior choke, settled near the horse to get a chariot out to see if I could get any workers as well... ended up with just 2 of them. Straight to writing, catapults around 600BC. Kept shaka of the metal for a loooong time. Now it looks like he found another source, but here is where we are now:




It went so well this time I actually settled the second scientist for an academy instead of keeping him for a bulb.

 

[Robert FIN]

I have to play this second time bc I screwed the previous game....

 

[Robert FIN]

NOOOOOO!!!!

I got owned again by

Spoiler :

!"#¤%&S"h¤a%k//A!"#¤%

I HATE HIM!! WHYYYY!!! NOOO!!!! HE IS TOO CLOSE AND...

Spoiler :

His capital is on !"#%& HILL!!!

I GIVE UP!! Too difficult map for me. Or then its really big difference between prince and noble.

 

[rfcfanatic]

@Robert FIN

Spoiler :

I cannot advise you on how to rush Shaka, because I suck at early rushes on Normal speed too. Even when I tried to do it later with catapults, Shaka already had longbows when I had the catas ready. 8 catapults got massacred by one single longbow! As the "no win, no loss" war dragged on, War Weariness stacked up. Also, I got AP trolled (5 "The world considers you a villain!" in every city). That was my second game, which I rage quitted btw.

But what I did in my third game I cottage-spammed the coast (you can see that on screenshots from previous posts), avoided early offensive wars, built up my economy and gained a tech lead which allowed me to field Rifles when Shaka still had medieval units. Then I beelined Steel, because Rifles without Cannon are nothing. Not so much later Infantry followed...

I found drafting with Nationhood civic pretty useful, so I went from Bureaucracy to Nationhood as soon as I started preparing the war. You will need the Globe Theatre national wonder if you want to do it without causing severe and the GT city needs lots of food to regrow after a draft. I chose Opis for that, the city near Banana and Iron to the north. I drafted Rifleman per turn while my production cities concentrated on building Cannon.

But if you want to concentrate on research in early game, you will have to defend yourself. Walls in frontier cities is a good idea. Babylonian UU, Bowman, is pretty good deterrent for any wannabe early attacker. Bowman replaces Archer and has 50% bonus against melee units. Maybe because I had a lot of them, Shaka was afraid to attack me in early game. I even refused his demand, but he still didn't attack me before deep into the AD's when he had HAs and 'phants already.

In Babylon, I built 2 early wonders - The Parthenon and The Great Library. Got one Great Scientist for academy and another one for Education bulb. Also managed to get Oracle done in Akkad, but it was kind of lucky of getting it done so late.

 

[klonoklown]

Emperor 1480 BC

Spoiler :

I have to admit this is my second attempt at this map, so I did have some prior knowledge. (had a little prior knowledge as well because I generated the map! ) First attempt was foiled by shaka with ~1500 BC DOW. For my second attempt I thought revenge was in order.

I stole a few workers from him, slowing him down a bit. Denied access to the gold, until he found buddism and the capital had its third ring. Bout that same time I settled my second city and hooked up the horses. Had two chariots ready as soon I seen he switched to slavery and could see his copper.

Declared war, pillaged sheep, denied access to copper. Built enough, barely, chariots to take down his hill capital.

[/IMG]

Then healed for a few turns, built a couple more chariots to regroup and took his last city.



I'm not too experienced with chariot rushes but I think I did this one in just enough time. I think if I waited too much longer I would have lost my opportunity. But all is well now, shaka has a pretty nice capital and second city. Now it is time to rex, and get some diplo going.

 

[Robert FIN]

@Robert FIN

Spoiler :

I cannot advise you on how to rush Shaka, because I suck at early rushes on Normal speed too. Even when I tried to do it later with catapults, Shaka already had longbows when I had the catas ready. 8 catapults got massacred by one single longbow! As the "no win, no loss" war dragged on, War Weariness stacked up. Also, I got AP trolled (5 "The world considers you a villain!" in every city). That was my second game, which I rage quitted btw.

But what I did in my third game I cottage-spammed the coast (you can see that on screenshots from previous posts), avoided early offensive wars, built up my economy and gained a tech lead which allowed me to field Rifles when Shaka still had medieval units. Then I beelined Steel, because Rifles without Cannon are nothing. Not so much later Infantry followed...

I found drafting with Nationhood civic pretty useful, so I went from Bureaucracy to Nationhood as soon as I started preparing the war. You will need the Globe Theatre national wonder if you want to do it without causing severe and the GT city needs lots of food to regrow after a draft. I chose Opis for that, the city near Banana and Iron to the north. I drafted Rifleman per turn while my production cities concentrated on building Cannon.

But if you want to concentrate on research in early game, you will have to defend yourself. Walls in frontier cities is a good idea. Babylonian UU, Bowman, is pretty good deterrent for any wannabe early attacker. Bowman replaces Archer and has 50% bonus against melee units. Maybe because I had a lot of them, Shaka was afraid to attack me in early game. I even refused his demand, but he still didn't attack me before deep into the AD's when he had HAs and 'phants already.

In Babylon, I built 2 early wonders - The Parthenon and The Great Library. Got one Great Scientist for academy and another one for Education bulb. Also managed to get Oracle done in Akkad, but it was kind of lucky of getting it done so late.

Ok, because of you made that big post to me I promise you to try this Uber-Difficult map once again... This time I wont try to Early rush. Instead of it I'll tech good and make cities. Maybe I leave..

Spoiler :

Shaka alone and attack Khmer later on.

Let's see what happens