Immortal University 99 - Genghis Khan

[BornInCantaloup]

Just hate when you get an aggressive crap leader, lots of land and food but 0 commerce.
So hard to get anywhere as maintenance goes through the roof in no time

The Great Lighthouse solution. Viable?

 

[Strickl3r]

GLH with Ghenkis, Capitol not on the coast and AH start?
I mean i don't say it's not doable, if you really want it you get it, but is it worth it? I don't really think so.

€: This map is good for a rush. You have no gold mine fine, but you can share a lot of tiles building a close start up empire with a lot of production.
If research is a problem you can easily get libarys and work scientist shortterm to get to HBR(+ maybe construction) although i prefer Keshiks here for the first target.
Don't wait to long until writing or you have to build tons of stuff that cost maintanance.

 

[Patchface]

Just hate when you get an aggressive crap leader, lots of land and food but 0 commerce.
So hard to get anywhere as maintenance goes through the roof in no time

If you're not going to mix up your gameplay when the map calls for it, then I suggest you lower the difficulty. Maintenance costs scale with difficulty.

 

[Choggy]

Regarding a Keshik rush on this map:

Spoiler :

It's definitely do-able on Immortal against Ragnar (killed him in 100BC) but needs to be done really early, given the lack of available commerce tiles or decent land to settle into I didn't bother with Writing, just went straight to HBR and back-traded for it when one of the AI's got Alpha.

 

[ben-jammin]

Until recently I assumed that going HBR before writing was standard practice. I was made aware that a lot of people go writing first, build libraries, and even use the first GS to bulb math for their HA rush.

That seems to me like an approach that works if you have lots of commerce or a target with no access to metal in any case. Slow, using a bulb on a tech the AIs research early anyway...I dunno.

 

[Choggy]

There's definitely advantages to Writing first if the map allows as it means that Currency is quicker for the aftermath. Bulbing a GS for Math sounds a bit dubious though - surely it's better to chop the trees out early and use fewer HA units?

 

[ben-jammin]

I've always had success with my method, and go writing right after HBR and generally have it ready before the war anyway. That way you scout their territory and have your units in position to pillage any mined metal within a turn or two. Which IMO is actually the single most crucial thing about the HA rush.

Once you're facing an AI that's building archers (and chariots if you're lucky) it becomes just a matter of time. And some strategic trickery reduces that amount of time of course.

 

[Izuul]

1240 BC.. odd game so far, but i think I'm in good shape.

Spoiler :

When i saw the start i thought i would try to Oracle HBR since there wasn't any commerce in the capitol. SIP didn't really allow for that because there's no time to tech BW before Oracle techs. My plan was to settle somewhere i could mine unforested hills so that i could just go AH > Mining > Myst > Med > PH. There were 3 such hills to the north and cows + pigs was still quite a bit of food even without the corn, so i moved 2N.

Upon settling i realized there were two Ivory in the BFC and i could get 10 hpt at size 4 just working cows, pigs, and ivory, so i temporarily skipped mining too and just went AH > Oracle techs. I built a settler at size 4 that went 1S of the horses. Not a great spot by any means but hey, it's horses! I started to back fill techs with Mining and Archery, and was working on Ag when i finished the Oracle in 1880 BC.

I immediately got out a 3T Keshik just in time to pick off some invading barbs (which got really bad). When i had 3 Keshiks and a medic Chariot i went north to try to pick off 1 of 4 barb cities that had already cropped up around me. This one was in a pretty decent looking commerce spot and on the way to Rags, so i thought i would take it and drop some cottages, but i found a little stack of Viking there instead. They threw themselves at the barb city and got wiped out, losing 4-5 units in the process. However, on the next turn he was able to capture (and raze, heh) the city with one surviving chariot.

I would've liked to let the city grow and capture it, or maybe just raze it myself for the gold, but Ragnar losing all of those units and still just having 3 cities presented me with an opportunity. I figured he really couldn't have much left near his capitol so i declared on him a couple of turns later with 4 Keshiks and a Chariot and found his cap defended by 2 archers, 1 healthy chariot, and 2 badly wounded chariots. I captured it in 2 turns with no losses.

Commerce and tech are still issues, but i have some SH fail gold and some capture gold now to get me to writing. Zara is also 3T from Alpha right now so i should be able to grab that for HBR after putting some turns into it. I'll cottage the crap out of Ragnar's capitol soon enough, and hopefully get things heading in the right direction.

Meanwhile, I'm surrounded by barb cities which could pose a problem if some of the other AI start marching into my land and capturing them right on top of me.

 

[Patchface]

@ Izuul

Spoiler :

See, this is why I enjoy reading through gameplays on less than perfect starts. That was a really creative opening.

 

[Tall German Joe]

1240 BC.. odd game so far, but i think I'm in good shape.

Spoiler :

When i saw the start i thought i would try to Oracle HBR since there wasn't any commerce in the capitol. SIP didn't really allow for that because there's no time to tech BW before Oracle techs. My plan was to settle somewhere i could mine unforested hills so that i could just go AH > Mining > Myst > Med > PH. There were 3 such hills to the north and cows + pigs was still quite a bit of food even without the corn, so i moved 2N.

Upon settling i realized there were two Ivory in the BFC and i could get 10 hpt at size 4 just working cows, pigs, and ivory, so i temporarily skipped mining too and just went AH > Oracle techs. I built a settler at size 4 that went 1S of the horses. Not a great spot by any means but hey, it's horses! I started to back fill techs with Mining and Archery, and was working on Ag when i finished the Oracle in 1880 BC.

I immediately got out a 3T Keshik just in time to pick off some invading barbs (which got really bad). When i had 3 Keshiks and a medic Chariot i went north to try to pick off 1 of 4 barb cities that had already cropped up around me. This one was in a pretty decent looking commerce spot and on the way to Rags, so i thought i would take it and drop some cottages, but i found a little stack of Viking there instead. They threw themselves at the barb city and got wiped out, losing 4-5 units in the process. However, on the next turn he was able to capture (and raze, heh) the city with one surviving chariot.

I would've liked to let the city grow and capture it, or maybe just raze it myself for the gold, but Ragnar losing all of those units and still just having 3 cities presented me with an opportunity. I figured he really couldn't have much left near his capitol so i declared on him a couple of turns later with 4 Keshiks and a Chariot and found his cap defended by 2 archers, 1 healthy chariot, and 2 badly wounded chariots. I captured it in 2 turns with no losses.

Commerce and tech are still issues, but i have some SH fail gold and some capture gold now to get me to writing. Zara is also 3T from Alpha right now so i should be able to grab that for HBR after putting some turns into it. I'll cottage the crap out of Ragnar's capitol soon enough, and hopefully get things heading in the right direction.

Meanwhile, I'm surrounded by barb cities which could pose a problem if some of the other AI start marching into my land and capturing them right on top of me.

Spoiler :

damn, now that is a true RUSH !!! nice work!

 

[Strickl3r]

You don't need to bulb math in every situation. But going writing first offers a lot more, like putting production into things that don't cost maintanance and working scientists, if you have no commerce at all.

€: Bulb math early is a creative leverage since you get it so early you can use it also as trade bait in addition to the very early production boost from forests...

 

[Izuul]

Immortal 75 BC

Spoiler :

The Vikings died rather uneventfully in 975 BC leaving me with 6 cities and a pretty sorry economy.

Spoiler :

Vikings cities that i captured:

Onto the process of economic recovery:

Step 1: Trade for Alpha

Spoiler :

Step 2: Build research and run scientists to get Currency and spawn a Great Prophet (just kidding the Prophet sucked but that's what happens when you build the Oracle)

Spoiler :

Step 3: Tech CoL while a world war breaks out

Spoiler :

Step 4: Switch into CS (and HR) for a while to run 4 scientists and actually get a GS instead of another GP. Build Academy in new capitol of Nidaros.

Spoiler :

Step 5: Bureaucracy (and back into Slavery)!

Spoiler :

I just settled city #8 by the marble. I'm planning to pick up Aesthetics then Lit to try for TGL. Justinian has had Aesthetics for quite awhile, and now has Lit, but there's a chance a can still beat him to TGL with marble. If not the MoM is still in play too. Worst case scenario i waste some beakers unlocking the HE and NE and probably get some fail gold. I don't think I'll bother with Music since he has a big head start and i already have a GP to trigger my first golden age.

Nidaros is looking really nice long-term:

Spoiler :

 

[Xunin]

"Before we start, here's the bit where I get to pretend that I'm Klonoklown pretending to be TMIT:"




Yeah with phants near, I would also much rather elepult on someone, than do the very fragile Keshik rush, that has such a small window of opportunity. Elepult, however, can be enough to win the entire map with the right precondition and careful execution.

Also, Xunin, i would consider settling the phant site on the PHs... I prefer building/chopping a monument over not having an extra hammer forever. Also, it has one more green river tile...

Basically I wanted to share the pig tile and not having to put turns into mysticism and monuments (which is why I didn't settle the second city on the desert, better short term, specifically, for keshik rushing).

 

[pomthom]

Immortal, Normal speed, NHNE

My initial thoughts were to SIP and go Agri > Mining (for the Pigs) > Pottery (to cottage the FP asap) > AH > BW (yeah how weird is that...)

Up to 475 BC...

Spoiler :

I've been making such bad macro decisions all game, it's sad
These notably include:

(i) Going for a late Oracle after hooking up Marble (worst case I get some good fail gold right?) and missing it completely (uh no actually worst case is going the Oracle tech path and not having the time to put a single hammer in the damn thing)
(ii) Researching HBR after... Aesthetics (what am I, stupid?). Well I guess we won't be Keshik-rushing this time are we... ​

With this path I ended up having litterally nothing to build in my 3 cities for quite a long time because I had already built 5/6 frikkin workers and Granaries/Barracks/Libraries in frikkin all of 'em. Plus I forgot to run Scientists for quite a while.

On the up side I was able to trade for Alpha and IW (up side?). Oh well.

Here's where I stand:



I'm trying to slowly (and poorly) build up cottages around my cap. The Marble/Phants city will also be a commerce spot (commerce spot? yeah I know but until I capture somethin better...).

I'm waiting for my economy to get a little better to settle more cities: (i) 2W of the Corn, (ii) on the Deer (not optimal but I really don't want to waste the Fish), (iii) maybe a week spot around the oasis...(1S of oasis?)

I'm also going for the 1st Barb city:



Maybe not enough...

1st GS coming up in 2 turns. It's sad but I'll probably build an academy in my cap.



Diplo situation :





Other than that, I don't really feel like going for Lib. Since I've missed out on Keshiks I'll go for super Phants and stomp someone (probably Ragnar). Maybe I'll try GLib along the way, since I have Marble.

Suggestions and severe criticism are welcome!

 

[pomthom]

@Izuul
Nice play and nice write-up dude

 

[pepe26]

Basically I wanted to share the pig tile and not having to put turns into mysticism and monuments (which is why I didn't settle the second city on the desert, better short term, specifically, for keshik rushing).

I missed the pigs being in the city radius... well settled then, indeed, good sir.

 

[Izuul]

@Xunin

Congrats on getting your 2nd Immortal win on a not-so-easy map. This is the first summary of yours that i have seen on the forum, and it looks like you played a nice game. What did you fight Justinian with?

 

[pepe26]

For your 2nd IMM win, this looks to be very, very nice! (also for a theorethical 100th win for that matter...) well done!

 

[Xunin]

Thanks guys Actually, it was my first win on immortal (attempted immortal once previous to this, but lost pretty badly). But I wouldn't exactly call it a gracious win, I made many, many mistakes along the way. And I can't wait to see the pros play this one out

@Izuul

Spoiler :

Basically, after conquering Ragnar I teched straight into Cuirassers. Popped a GM at one of my GP farms and upgraded all of my left over Keshirs in the process. The problem was that Justinian did not yield easily (as a result of being able to settle 13 cities peacefully, I guess) which is also probably the main reason I didn't win until the 1800s. It's also possible that I should have attacked Egypt much sooner instead of vassaling useless 6 city states.

Also, yeah, It's the first time I post in one of these threads, although I made my own thread about trying to beat emperor back when I was new to the forum and game a month or two, ago (which means that technically I'm still a little nublet ), but I really like this format and thanks for putting this up, I learned a lot. Can't wait for the next game 8)

 

[Izuul]

Regarding the size of one of the opponents

Spoiler :

I believe 13 city Justinian is a byproduct of an early rush on Ragnar. If allowed to expand unchecked, Ragnar likely would've claimed several of those city sites. Justinian has 13 cities in my game also.