Immortal University IV: Suleiman of the Ottoman Empire

Some of you play to fast. You should savour the game like a fine wine (and give the rest of us a chance to keep up ;) ).

Final update to Monty's game and first update to this one coming soon. Excellent start here.
 
Some of you play to fast. You should savour the game like a fine wine ...

:mischief: Agreed! I had a big chunk of Civ time, so plenty of wine tasting to go around. I was one of the last to finish Immortal III (that has posted so far), so I wanted plenty of time to play the late game this time around. Oh, and this way I can read your updates as they get posted :p
 
Loadsa fast!
 
2360BC - 875BC (39 turns)

Spoiler :
2360BC - On reflection, switch research from pottery to IW. If I settle the gold site first, I can chop out a monument pretty quickly and use the commerce from that gold to maintain research/expansion; I won't actually be working any cottages for a long time yet so pottery's a waste for now.

2280BC - Willem's archer killed a barb one roaming my borders :goodjob:

2120BC - Buddhism spreads to Istanbul; Edirne settled.

2080BC - Willem builds the GW; looks like all the barbs on the continent are mine.

1680BC - IW > Pottery; Ankara (gem city) founded.

1360BC - Pottery > Writing.

1000BC - Writing > Meditation; partly for the culture from monasteries and partly because I plan on building S.Paya in Edirne for quick pacifism and to push Willem's borders back.

975BC - Bursa founded; blocking complete.

Turkey in 875BC:

civ4screenshot0000bx9.jpg


Plan from here:
I need more workers (only have 4 so far, so I want another 4 - one's about to finish) and will then focus on getting some libraries and scientists going. The gold and gems tiles are a good commerce buffer in the interim. In terms of tech, I'm thinking fishing > maths > aesthetics (for S.Paya), but I'm not too sure where to go from there. I'm also not sure where else to settle. There are a couple of OK sites (sheep/crab and near the copper), but although I've managed to bag a lot of land, most of it's ice/tundra. I don't think I've ever seen so much coastline without seafood.

I also need to scout the south of the continent much better.

@ silverbullet:

Spoiler :
Thanks for your advice on settling locations. I was tempted by the fish/gold city location, but felt it was more important to be able to grab the gold with a blocking city. I'll probably settle a fish/horse city north of that later; it won't be much to write home about, but can borrow mines from Istanbul to get infrastructure built quickly and then run 3 scientists as it stagnates.

With regard to your game, it looks like Willem settled towards you more aggressively initially than he did towards me (check out where the boundary of the Great Wall is). How far are you from music? Is it worth going for the free GA and bombing him, or will that come too late?
 

Attachments

100 turns - 375BC

Spoiler :


Settled 1E as I guess most people will do. The gold is to good to pass up. So started a worker then a couple of warriors for scouting purposes. Only 2 goodie huts 45 gold and a scout. 1 left to pop but I will let the cultural boundaries do that.

Tech path went Mining/AH/BW/Hunt/Arch/Fish/Pot/Writing/IW/Maths just about to tech Med need monasteries for my border cities. After this undecided whether to go Pries/CoL or Aesth/Poly/Lit. Doesn't seem there are any wonder hogs out there Glib still a poss. All religions bar Islam have been founded so good chance of a religious nut. Tao went circa 900BC. No reports of any GG being born so no wars as yet on the other continents. :sad:

Settled gold/fish and corn/sugar site pretty quickly trying to box Wil in a bit. He's up to 7 cities so seems like there is plenty of room to the South haven't scouted it properly yet but will do soon. ;) I couldn't decide where to build the city for the gems site so went even further South and built it NE of the gold keeping 1 gem. Figured even if I lose the gold to Wil I won't lose the gems.

Plan is to carry on Rexing. Not sure whether to go cottages or specs. Expect as usual a mixture of both.

Anyone know if AI will trade when they only know you? No plan to attack Wil early. Probably be using Renaissance units if and when I do attack. At the moment were at +5 relations though I expect to lose some points for close borders. :)

Overview of our lands.

Suly1-North0000.jpg


Suly1-South0000.jpg


Demographics.

Suly1-Demo0000.jpg


Unsurpisingly No 1 in land and bottom in nearly everything else. :lol: Off to read other peoples spoilers now. Any hints or suggestions welcome.
 

Attachments

875BC - 125AD (40 turns)

Spoiler :
This was a very uneventful set, during which I scouted out the rest of the continent, whipped some infrastructure (including cultural buildings to consolidate my borders), founded one more city to deter Dutch expansion, and started to farm GS.

850BC - Meditation > Maths.

275BC - Maths > Aesthetics.

250BC - Konya founded; a marginal city, but it acts as a buffer for Ankara and Bursa north of it, stopping Willem from settling on my doorstep, and grabs a clam resource (health is at a premium on this map).

25BC - GS born in Istanbul > Academy there.

25AD - Aesthetics > Fishing.

50AD - Fishing > Priesthood.

125AD :coffee:

Plan for the next set: complete Shwedagon Paya and revolt to Buddhism and pacifism. Get sailing, currency and CoL in tech and then head for Liberalism. Also settle some more cities in the north as and when I can afford them.

Note to self: Willem's sending some troops to capture the barb city in the north - get a sword over there quick!
 

Attachments

@patagonia
Spoiler :

Nice opening:goodjob: Building the Shwedagon Paya in your border city is a great plan -- those sugar tiles should be yours in no time.

Willem has his sugar available for trade if you need happy room before you tech calendar.
 
@patagonia
Spoiler :

You might consider not building shwegadon, just build it until 1 turn before last and let someone else have it and get the gold. It will help you get to civil service faster. Since you are going to bulb philosophy soon, you don't really need the wonder, and the culture bonus is not worth it IMO.
 
@ silverbullet

Spoiler :


Just looked at your save until the BUG mod crashed it :). Not sure I'm up to giving any advice seeing how my game is going. ;) Definitely would settle a city in the middle to stop Wil settling there. I'd also try and settle the clams on the East coast. After that you should be able to settle the North at your leisure, thats if you want to. :lol:

Don't let Wil take any of the barb cities its a good idea to keep an eye out for Wil sending a stack to attack the cities. If as usual its not enough units to take the city have a couple of units ready to jump in and snatch it from him. Always good when a city with 4 archers becomes 1 or 2 weakened ones. :)

Bit late now but better fogbusting would have stopped you having so much barb trouble. I don't think I've lost a unit, haven't killed very many either. :)

The plan for my game is to bulb towards Lib/Nat as quickly as possible. Draft Jans and attack with Jans/Trebs. Have to see how far I get with that idea as to say my economy isn't very good at the moment is an understatment (have played on a bit from my previous save). :lol:

What I might be doing in this game is try and steal a few techs from Wil. Can't see him stealing to many from me at the moment though. :D

Thats about it so Good Luck in whatever route you take.



 
@Sleepless:
Spoiler :

Thanks for the advice. Regarding fogbusting - I see that you went for archery, which I think was critical on this map. I tried to skip it and ended up losing many warriors and building replacement warriors instead of settlers.
Anyway, it led to some interesting developments.
 
Turn Set 2: 975BC to 75BC
Spoiler :


Techs: Maths->masonry->fishing->iron working->meditation->aesthetics (partial).

I started this turnset not really sure what to do (rush Louis:confused:?). This map is a virtual isolation - having one neighbour only is probably worse. In the past I used to reload such games, but this is the immortal university, and one cannot become immortal without pushing to the limits.

Unfortunately I have already missed capitalizing the imperialistic trait, letting the dutch get all the good city spots. I will try to block the rest of the island. Willem has founded hinduism and I switched, so he will soon be pleased and the chances of war will be 0.

875BC - we learn mathematics, enabling us to raise the happy cap with our UB (after masonry). I was hoping Willem would have alphabet by now and I might be able to trade math for iron working, but stupid Willem didn't understand my plan - he didn't bother with Alpha, and built the hanging gardens at 500BC - yet another reason to free the dutch people from his rule.

Willem is diligently spreading Hinduism to all my new cities, helping me in the culture war against him :)
So after the essential techs of fishing and iron working I tech meditation so I can whip monasteries for culture. This is enough to let me hold my important tiles so far. It's a good thing my neighbour is not Zara :).

575BC Konya is founded in a pretty bad place in the middle of the jungle near the clams. I don't know how good it is, but I do steal the spot away from Willem and buffer culture pressure from Ankara

I sign a great deal with Willem - copper for sugar AND silk. This brings me to a nice happy cap of 12 in the capital. I start building some cottages there to support my expansion.

The Ottoman Empire at 75BC:

North:
north75bc.jpg


South:
south75BC.jpg


Netherlands:
dutch75bc.jpg


Our cities:
75BC_Istanbul.jpg

75BC_edirne.jpg

75bcankara.jpg

75BCbursa.jpg

75BCKonya.jpg


Immediate plans: capture barbarian cities, fuel deficit research for literature, alphabet, code of laws, and then start liberalism bulb.

 

Attachments

Turn Set 3 : 75BC to 620AD
Spoiler :


Techs: Aesthetics->Alphabet->Priesthood->Polytheism->Literature->currency->code of laws->philosophy (bulbed)->Civil Service (2 turns left)

I made a mistake this turn that cost me losing the great library
I teched Alphabet before Literature, thinking I could trade useful thinks like code of laws or currency from Willem.

techalpha.jpg

Apparently with me being the only other known civ, he treats almost all techs as monopoly techs. Seems like we are going to tech alone until optics. At least we won't have to deal with WFYABTA for a long time.

I started building shwegadon paya for the money, and unexpectedly also got money from the great library BIDL. The cash helped me get currency, code of laws and civil service pretty quickly (well, 620AD is not that quick for civil service, but I am isolated after all :)).

I managed to found Taoism, and that worries me a bit. Willem founded almost all of the other religions and the other continents seems to be very peaceful, judging from the amount of wonders being built there. On the other hand I can't be too far behind. If I am first to philosophy liberalism is pretty much guaranteed with all the GS I can get now.

Our capital:
istanbul640ad.jpg


Note that we don't have monarchy yet, but are doing fine with happiness so far.

Tech Status:
tech640AD.jpg

We are falling behind. Willem has the grassland jungles with all his cottages... but our great scientist will rescue us, and hopefull get us to gunpowder on time.

As soon as CS is finished I will revolt to bureaucracy and pacifism. I will stay out of caste system for now. I want to whip some courthouses and tech drama and whip theatres.
My long term plan is to fight a treb/janissary/spies war. I will take nationalism from liberalism and draft Janissaries.
 

Attachments

Part 1 (4000BC-10AD):

Spoiler :


Ahh another game and now with the beautiful blue marble mod and the excellent BUG mod (I'm hoping the latter will save me a few hours game time. If only it would alert on WHEOOHRN ;) ).

Like the rest of you, I moved the Settler 1E to claim the gold. I also saved the hut for a turn to get a chance at a free tech.

ImmortalSulei010000.jpg


This payed off as I popped Hunting on the next turn. My initial research order was Mining > BW > AH > Archery > Mysticism.

I built a worker first then a scout and three warriors and then my first settler which moved south. By this time I had met Willem who founded Hinduism.

ImmortalSulei020000.jpg


In hindsight, I probably should have settled SW to claim the second gem and then place another city by the river somewhere as I had already located copper close by up north. Edirne started building a worker then switched to a monument a few turns later when I finished Mysticism. After that I decided to go for Writing and not make the mistake of delaying it like I did in the Montezuma game.
Tech order Fishing > Pottery > Writing.
I built another worker and alot of archers in Istanbul to combat the barbarians and then another settler. The settler founded my third city up north to claim copper.

ImmortalSulei030000.jpg


I read through the BC reports after finishing this round and I see that everyone else has placed the northern city in the same spot. I think this is a good example of when it's NOT wrong to place a city 1 of the coast. Sure you waste the two coastal tiles in the bfc but you get alot of food and strong production which is invaluable early on, the advantage right now is what counts at this point in the game.
Still, I should probably have waited with this spot as I went for archery anyhow fearing axes would come too late. I could have used my second settler to steal more land from Willem, fortunately his initial expansion was to the south.
I had to spam alot of archers to keep all my tiles safe and I quickly gained a 10XP unit from all the fighting. I felt I had to claim the southern spots fast so after I had fortified my defense I whipped two more settlers in Istanbul. The first claimed some sugar and a wheat.

ImmortalSulei040000.jpg


And the second some more sugar as well as fish and gold.

ImmortalSulei050000.jpg


I'm not happy with the placement of Bursa, I would much have preffered a city SSE to claim the gold for the profit and to gain a monopoly on it and leave more space for later, but Willems religion and creative -fueled culture was starting to become a problem there. I actually thought he had founded another city as his borders popped just as my settler was moving towards my preffered spot but it later turned out to be from Amsterdam itself. I decided to play it safe.
At the same time I settled Konya, Hinduism spread to Bursa and I wasted no time adopting it. During this round Willem then kept spamming missionaries to all my cities.

After this expansion wave my economy was strained to its limits and my research didn't pick up pace towards IW until I had gotten some libraries up and running. My first GS was born in Istanbul and I settled him there figuring it will be my bureaucracy capital with Oxfords.

ImmortalSulei060000.jpg


After IW finished I went for Aesthetics that I planned on trading for Alphabet to Willem who now had a sizeable tech lead. However, after finishing Aesthetics, just as I put the required turn of research into Alphabet I was met with disaster.

ImmortalSulei070001.jpg


Aarrrgghh! Willem stole my tech! One turn more and I would have had it. This made me sit back for a couple of minutes and ponder which path to take.
I decided to go for Hamams via Mathematics first and then possibly give TGL a shot with help of a junk city up north to claim the marble. I'm not sure though, is a junk city worth it considering my economy at this point to claim TGL? I'm planning on making my northern copper city Ankara my GP farm as it's the best city for that endeavour except Istanbul which Im cottaging up. My second GS was born at the same time as Aesthetics was stolen and I built an academy in Istanbul.

At the end of the round I sent another settler to claim Iron and fill up some first class land.

ImmortalSulei080001.jpg


Well maybe not first class with all those plains, but good. ;)

A look at southern Turkey.

ImmortalSulei090000.jpg


And the northern parts.

ImmortalSulei100000.jpg


Willem is sending units to capture Yue-Chi one at a time, I've posted some units there to take advantage if he manages to weaken the defenses enough. So far he has only wasted several units and given the barbs some promotions.
I want to raze Yue-Chi and place a city to the south to claim the iron there as well.

The demographics, poor in all but land, small wonder. Optics is looking very tempting right now as is early Astronomy, I'll have to dust of my GP tech preference knowledge if I go for that.

ImmortalSulei110000.jpg


Lastly a look at the Dutch empire.

ImmortalSulei120000.jpg


Good reads from the rest of you so far, it seems most of us are struggling with the city placements, I'm unhappy with just about all but the copper city myself. :p
Keep up the good work and remember to take your time. :lol:

 

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820AD - 52 Turns

Spoiler :


The highlight of this turnset came when the borders popped and

Suly2-Constr0000.jpg


Only about 50 techs behind Wil now. ;)

Very quiet turns. Just managed to tech CS and have set research to paper. Being so far behind in tech I have decided to bulb paper and set research for MC/Poly/Lit/Drama and use GS to bulb Paper/Edu and most of Lib. Currently have 2 GS, 1 due in 3 turns then have to see how long the next 1 will take. Currently running CSys/Pac so GP should come quite quickly. Haven't changed to Beau yet but will shortly.

Tech Situation

Suly2-techs0000.jpg


Not looking to great but hopefully some AI will come visiting soon and I'll have something to trade. At long last there has been some GG born so at least some fighting going on. :) Wonders are being built quite quickly e.g GLib built in 150ADish. Saved me settling the marble site though. I have built the S.Paya to one turn and have been waiting some time for a cash injection but no-one wants to build it. :sad: Wil has built a couple. Amsterdam has the UoS, ToA and hindu shrine which should look good under the control of the Ottomans. :D

The capital.

Suly2-Istanbul0000.jpg


Not very impressive but most of the forests will help to build the Taj as long as no-one beats me to Lib.

My lands.

Suly2-South0000.jpg


Suly2-North0000.jpg


Captured 1 barb city since last time. Other than that nothing has really changed. I will build 2 new cities shortly. One for marble and one for Sheep/Iron.

Future plan is still to attack Wil with Jans/Trebs. Have to see how that goes. ;)

 

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850 BC -> 1170 AD
Spoiler :

Upon inspecting the situation I notice this:



That's a serious problem or an opportunity. The problem is that Amsterdam will produce 30 culture per turn from those wonders alone and mess up my border city. The opportunity is that I can go for a war and claim them both. I chose the latter because both of Willem's sources of metal are easily pillaged. A quick look at the power graph was convincing too, he hardly has troops.

250 BC We get a slave revolt :mad::mad::mad::mad:

125 BC Commence the attack. I razed this city.



25 AD I take Amsterdam and sue for temporary peace. We get knowledge of the alphabet.



400 AD We're back at it :D



A quick look at the tech screen shows that Willem has machinery (he can research engineering). That might prove useful as I'm going to lightbulb astronomy before liberalism for contact with the other continent.

560 AD We capture another city and sue for peace again short after. This time we learn the knowledge of metal casting.



Example of how to run an economy with a 0% slider.



1000 AD We're back at it again and capture Utrecht. I've recently been researching useless techs because I wanted to get machinery from Willem. This was pretty stupid, I played a too big of a set and got reckless. Researching feudalism was a waste of time, I could've traded with the other continent instead. As it turned out I couldn't get machinery in the peace deal until I was half-way through it either. I've part researched civil service to 1 turn at this point as well.

1070 AD Bulb Astronomy and whip out 2 galleons.

Thanks to philosophical I already have 2 more scientists waiting, so soon after I bulb education as well. Thus, at 1170 AD, we're first to liberalism (1 turn left) and have started making contact with our rivals. Not a very bad date considering all the detours (war, astronomy and semi-isolation).
 
@rusten:
Spoiler :

Nice game. Can you post the save?
Did you bother at all with Aesthetics->literature? or did you just ignore the marble and focus on war? I assume you self researched construction?
Why did you whip Galleons and not caravels? You could move into rival territory without open borders with caravels? Is that for the extra move?
 
@rusten:
Spoiler :

Nice game. Can you post the save?
Did you bother at all with Aesthetics->literature? or did you just ignore the marble and focus on war? I assume you self researched construction?

Spoiler :
Yes, no aesthetics. I ignored the north completely, all of my cities are south of the capital. Actually I haven't scouted the marble at all, but even if I had I still would've ignored it, I've had other things to deal with. My research after writing went IIRC -> mathematics -> construction (in case I needed catapults to finish up Willem -> sue for peace alphabet -> currency (with alphabet discount) -> CoL.


@rusten:
Spoiler :

Why did you whip Galleons and not caravels? You could move into rival territory without open borders with caravels? Is that for the extra move?
Spoiler :
Extra move, better barb defense (we have a lot of coastal fog up north) and because I'm playing with the idea of an invasion.
 

Attachments

@Rusten

Spoiler :

Good game, attacking Willem early and having a huge stack of land early on is always a good idea, no risk of getting backstabbed too.

I was tempted by an attack on Willem, one of the reasons not doing it was that i'm planning your Cuirassiers rush on Willem and that's hard if he isn't around anymore. Apart from the Cannons and occasional Rifles rush i haven't tried other renaissance units really, i expect some more losses going with Cuirassiers.

You didn't scout the north, i at least tried to scout the north but i got hammered by barbs even so. More tedious than really damaging but i had to build quite a few chariots to keep them at bay. Didn't you have trouble with all the ugly creatures seeping out from the dark?
 
@Rusten

Spoiler :

You didn't scout the north, i at least tried to scout the north but i got hammered by barbs even so. More tedious than really damaging but i had to build quite a few chariots to keep them at bay. Didn't you have trouble with all the ugly creatures seeping out from the dark?

Spoiler :
Surprisingly few came to annoy me. It got pretty hectic at the start, but once they settled cities they stopped sending stray units. My combat 2 + cover archers handled them easily, and as I only had my capital up there it meant I could see them coming and prepare a long time before they could do any damage to my tiles.
 
I read all the old games in the Monty threads, nice reads all around. This game is also proving to be fun. Rusten has made the city placements I wish I had done, it will be interesting to see how this affects the GNP. At least I'm building tons of workers this game I kind of slacked off a bit from the middle ages onward in the Monty game which cost me precious development time.
 
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