Immortal University IV: Suleiman of the Ottoman Empire

[silverbullet]

620AD to 1140AD

Spoiler :

Techs: civil service -> paper (bulbed)->sailing->drama->metal casting->compass->education (bulbed)-> liberalism (part bulbed)->nationalism(free)->machinery->optics (partial)
Traded techs: monotheism and monarchy for paper.
Techs stolen : calendar

We finish civil service at 660AD, and revolt to bureaucracy and pacifism.
We also bulb paper with another great scientist (we are getting a lot of them even without cast system and without NE!!!).

My workers start very important irrigration chains which are crucial for this map.

I trade paper for monarchy and monotheism. Willem will accept either civil service or paper (he bulbed theology), so I prefer to give him a tech with no immediate benefit. Plus, he has stone, if he build UoS for me it will be great for late game when the continent is mine

I tech sailing, because it's about time, and because I want to steal calendar from Willem. I send 2 spies to hist closest city I have trade routes with. Eventually I manage to steal calendar (no espionage slider, just courthouses)

Next I tech drama - Willem already has it so I need to keep up with the culture pressure. Bursa is doing pretty good for now - the 1000 years old library monastery and monument bring +10 culture, protecting my gold.

I switch to caste system and monarchy once most courthouses and markets have been whipped. Liberalism race needs a final push.

Next techs are metal casting and compass, to bulb liberalism.
Education is bulbed with 2 great scientist and no single turn of research.
6 cities switch to discounted universities to get a quick oxford and a somewhat decent research rate (168 beaker/turn at 940AD is very unimpressive)

After compass I bulb liberalism (incomplete) , and then I start machinery. I toy with the idea of getting astronomy from liberalism, but then I remember that this is continents map, and I don't know what is going on on the other side of the world. I check and see UoS BIDL, so I don't take the risk and complete a liberalism and pick nationalism as my free tech.

My plan is to send caravels to meet the other continent ASAP and trade for engineering. After optics I will self research gunpowder (assisted by a golden age), and draft a massive Janissary army. Willem has mostly knights and defensive units. Luckily most of his knights are 3XP units, so Janissaries should handle them fine. I will build a few pikes to handle the tough knights.

BTW, barbarian harassments in the north have helped me unlock the HE which I plan to build in Ankara to pump trebs.

Other interesting development: Willem built the AP - I will get nice production boost from my temples and monasteries. He also built the spiral minaret and 3 shrines. This should make recovery from war easier.

Our 3 best cities at 1140AD

Our glorious capital:

Our future HE city

Our future globe theatre city.

NOTE: I am writing the report after having played the next turnset as well, and I noticed I didn't time the globe theatre very well. I wanted to complete it during the golden age, but I didn't have enough theatres. Now that I am writing it I wonder why I even bothered with a market there. I don't need extra happiness and the city is not a commerce hub.
Conclusion: write the report BEFORE you go on playing.

Our empire
North:

South:

 

[qwertz]

I decided to give this one a try
Not a big write-up, just a summary
4000BC-1910AD

Spoiler :

I managed to get the pyramides eary on, but had to sacrafice some nice jungle spots to willem because of it. The pyramides gave me also a GE, which was used to build TGL. I was running a full scale SE and was generating a lot of GS which were mainly settled in the capital.
I got liberalism shortly after the turn of the millennium and took mil. tradition from it. I than quickly built/drafted a janissary/cuirassier/treb army and conquered the most of willi's land. He was than finished off him after rifling.
After clearing out my continent I went for a peacefull SS victory as the other continent was involved in some serious religeous wars and was generally quite backward. Finally I got the SS victory somewhere around 1910 IIRC.

 

[ABigCivFan]

4000BC-425BC

Spoiler :

My initial worrior got to Woodsman2, so i was able to scout the jungles down south early.

We are Imperial, this means easier REX, sent 2 pairs of archers and settlers deep south to claim gold, gems and bunch of Sugers.

Will need 2 more cities down there to block off Williem. 4 settled @ 1400BC. Speed is very important to beat Williem to those nice spots.



1440BC: Lots of barbs came down from North. I had to scramble lot of archers to protect my capital and improvements.




975BC: 1st GS built Academy in capital, unlocked HE from all the barb fighting.




To me, Williem is a little too far to be Axe rushed; Amsterdam sit on a hill and the only copper i see is near a barb city up north. It might be doable if I get iron + catapults early but it will divert lots of resources from my weak empire and it will be a big risk if the attack falls short. So I decided to REX a big chunk of land, play nice with Williem and hope cultivating him into a good trade partner until Astronomy.

425BC: 6 city network with a crashing economy 40% science and in the red. But all have food and some production, this means early and easy Oxford/Gloabe/Cathedrals/WallStreet and etc. Runing 2 scientists in cities and plotted down some cottages.

425BC-1535AD:

Spoiler :

Researched Math for UB, COL, Currency, CS, bulbed Philo; some one reached Liberalism first circa 1100AD. So I went Astronomy route seeking early trade routes and trades with the other contis.

1360AD: I had a good number of cottages, so I bulbed Printing Press and traded it for Liberalism to Gand; later used PP+Liberalism traded for Nationalism+Feudal+Compus from Williem.




1360AD: Conti view, limited Willem to 7 cities with my early REX, he is pleased. He build most cities coastal dreaming those dikes.



1470AD: After Astronomy, backing filling techs with other civs.




1525AD: Resource Trades after Astro, all those resources i grabbed early now playing a huge part ensuring my empire growing massive and healthy.




1535AD: Capital during a GA started by a GS. Growing more GS for more Academies. Switched Civis to grow cottages and GS, before the end of this Golden age will switch to US+FS+Emanci+FM+OR to take full advantage of those cottages. Next going for Steam engine (Levee, coal), then Assembly line (Factor) so I will stay in OR until those hammer enhancing builds are done in most cities. I will soon need hammers to potentially wage a Infantry/Cannon/Arty based assult against Willem to wipe him out.




1535AD Capital view:




If i could wipe out Williem quickly, i should be able to sail to a easy space win, Amsterdam is a good location for a forbidden Palace.

 

[silverbullet]

@ABigCivFan:

Spoiler :

Welcome to the university. It's nice to see a lot of sample games by deity players here.
It's a really nice example of how to utilize imperialistic and how to recover from being backward in isolation. Can you please post some intermediate saves?

 

[Dirk1302]

@ABigCivFan

Spoiler :

Nice to see you play here, those screenshots from barbs do remind me of my own game (about which i'll post tonight), they just kept on coming.
I really thought sometimes "now they've had it time to fogbust" then i moved a chariot forward and spotted 2 new ones.

 

[silverbullet]

Up to 1430AD

Spoiler :

1160 - We are 1 turn away from optics, and we meet Shaka. He will trade nothing with us, but meeting him makes Willem realize that we are not alone and now he is willing to trade. I will wait until I meet the rest of the other continent before I make any tech trades.

1200 AD - golden age begins. Capital builds oxford.
Switching to caste/pacifism for a science push to get gunpowder.
Whip 2 caravels and start scouting.

After gunpowder we self research construction - 2 turns (I want to trade engineering).
Willem steals gunpowder from us 1 turn after we have researched it!!!
I am still planning a Janissary war since most of his army will be longbows, knights and melee units.
We meet Victoria who already has education and nationalism. We trade liberalism and gunpowder for the missing techs: engineering, feudalism, theology, horseback riding.
The timing is good - last turn of the golden age ends. We switch to theocracy/slavery/nationhood.

Ankara (HE city) starts building trebs.
My globe city is not ready, but I start working on that. I draft janissaries wherever possible.
We meet china and india, which helps drafting since we can trade some happy resources with gandhi.


Not too bad, but we will fall behind during the war.
We trade guilds, music, and later banking, and eventually astronomy.

Tech status (after bulbing printing press):

If Willem decides to research rifling (2 techs away), my Janissary war plans are over. Luckily he chose to go to scientific method ->physics.

1430 - my army has 39 Janissaries and 12 trebs. My power ratio is 1.0 to Willem, and I am ready to attack.
I am 2 turns away from chemistry (partly bulbed) and next is steel. If Willem gets to rifles too early I will sign peace and attack again with cannons.

I declare war on Willem:

Willem bribes Peter to declare war on me. I have to watch for that, as my northern cities are guarded by warriors and chaiots.

 

[Gliese 581]

Part 2 (10AD-790AD):

Spoiler :

Tech order: Maths > Masonry > Polytheism > Literature > Currency > Meditation > Priesthood > Sailing > Code of Laws > Metal Casting
Bulbed: Alphabet, Philosophy
Trades: Philosophy for Monarchy, Monotheism.

After finishing maths and masonry for Hamams I (unwisely) decided to go for Literature.
Willem kept sending troops at Yue-Chi to the east of Istanbul and after he had weakened it enough I captured and razed it.

A few turns later Willem completed Shwedagon Paya in Amsterdam where as I forgot to tell you in the first update, he had also completed TOA earlier. I had initially saved my third GS to bulb something more expensive but I changed my mind and used him to bulb alphabet when I had nothing worthwhile left to build in Istanbul to get a few spies going and try to steal a tech or two.

All through this round GGs kept spawning in far off lands, I forgot to mention this as well but 3 ggs were born in round 1, I counted to 7 more during this round for a total of 10. My opponents are apparently quite busy, eeeeexcellent...

I traded copper to Willem for Silk which is the only resource he has that I lack.
After Literature finished I started on Currency. Willem immediately stole Literature. I founed Gaziantep on the marble on the same turn I finished Literature to get the marble bonus in Ankara, unfortunately the barbarians destroyed the road making me lose the marble hookup for a couple of turns.

Willem also founded the Hindu Shrine in Amsterdam at this time, the Dutch capital is beginning to look quite juicy.
I had more trouble with barbarians as 4 swordsmen spawned in the only unoccupied tile between me and Willem to the south.

Taoism was founded in far off lands in 310 AD.
The AP was built by a buddhist in 325.
Then I finished TGL in Ankara.

I was sorely tempted and I took the bait on this one. In retrospect I think it was a mistake as the diversion was not worth it even though it also unlocked the NE for faster GP generation. If I didn't have to plant a junk city to get the marble it would have been ok.
After Currency I got Meditation and Priesthood to get cheap COL and enable a Philosophy bulb. I also went for sailing before COL since a barb galley was threatening my western fishboats.
COL was stolen on the same turn I got it just like Aesthetics and Literature, maybe I should've seen it coming?
I traded Philosophy for Monarchy and Monotheism which were the only two techs Willem was willing to part with. He didn't even have any gold on the side.

Not exactly a fair deal but it's better than having it stolen a couple of turns later and get no trade at all. I attempeted to steal Calendar from Willem but the first three spies were discovered prematurely or failed, I'm still trying though.

I did some civic changes after this.

Perhaps Organized Religion would have been better as I started to build some markets and courthouses but I figured I'll need alot of GSs. I have one GS waiting to bulb Optics and two more will be needed for Astronomy, then I need a couple for the Liberalism race.

Willem has got Feudalism Machinery and Engineering already so I need to get Machinery fast to ensure my defense. Since he switched to Free Religion after building the SP I have no hope of getting him to friendly any time soon. Despite Willem being a techmonger he is aggressive although he doesn't build much troops and he has a high backstabbing probability at pleased. My power rating is less than 0.5 of his now which is bad.

A look at my best cities:

Maybe I should stop using scientists in my other cities since I'm generating 60GPP a turn in Ankara? I hate losing the GPP though.
When I had finished the NE in Ankara and the HE in Edirne (changed my mind on where to place that one), I pulled my troops out of Gaziantep in hopes of losing it to the barbarians.

No luck so far.

Struggling once again but I'm hoping it'll take a turn for the better with Astronomy. I wish I had placed my cities like ABIGCivfan, that placement is 100% spot on except perhaps the northern copper/corn/pigs city which should probably have been founded asap after the southern blocking was complete.

 

[Dirk1302]

Until 1100 AD

Spoiler :

I played like everyone, rexing southward.Initial research iirc AH->Mining->BW->Mysticism->Pottery->Writing->Fishing->Sailing then decided to go Math before IW also since i have only one gem to mine and lots of forests to chop. Compared to the others here i was a bit conservative, not claiming clams on the south east and only claiming one sugar in the center of the map. 1040 BC a plain hill spawned another gem . I was afraid of Willem's culture if i'd settle to close to him. Also i'll get all his cities sooner or later anyway so i don't want to tank my economy completely. On the south west site i do claim some extra sugar and fish.

It did look like a very good start initially and we have good land. Rexing means however that we research at only 30-40% and there are hardly any trading options or trade routes.In effect we're isolated.

I didn't research archery as i figured i'd get the horses near the gem site up in time .It worked but since i had to get the horses asap i couldn't get the second gem within my BFC.

2 chariots are whipped to fight the first incoming barbs from the north, turned out that this wasn't enough.
I get Hammered by barbs from the dark tundra,each time i try to fogbust the area i meet an archer, destroy it but then have to retreat because the chariot is wounded. Then again hordes of warriors and archers seep out of the dark. You can see a badly wounded chariot fleeing from a warrior in the 1000 bc save.

I don't remember exactly but i think 2 chariots are lost in the process and i may have built some 7 chariots in the capital. I can't remember being bugged by barbs this bad on normal speed, usually 2 chariots is enough to wipe the area clean.Ultimately it's not too much of a problem and as a reward HE is unlocked.

Around 1 AD the barb situation is more or less under control and we found the copper marble corn city. In the meantime i'm researching aesthetics --> literature. A bit of a reflex really going COL/CS would have been an option, then again we have marble and even if i miss out on both wonders I expect to get some much needed gold beginning to build the gpp wonders. Willem had aesthetics and literature for some time but since he didn't have marble he was very slow building the wonders.So i get them both. Food enough in the capital so i'll get lots of scientists later.

475 AD Diyarbakir is founded in a way that it has pigs in his BFC but also shares the corn with the copper-corn-marble city. Reason for this strang placement is that the spot is ideal for the Globe theater with mines and forests around.
No worries about being late building it this time.

Research wise we're not doing too good, i get CS 700 AD which is very late. I trade it for alphabet (needed for philo bulb) and 350 gold that Willem has as a result of losing GL ANd Parthenon. I bulb philosophy and switch to bureau, caste and pacificm. I manually research Paper, MC, Compass and Calender while the capital is spawning scientists at roguhly 100-130 gpp/turn. Just as i'm about to bulb education and liberalism i meet Shaka 1040 AD,happy to meet him this time really.I get him to pleased with gifting literature. I now bulb towards liberalism. Unfortunately this puts me on top of the scorelist and Zulu drops down to cautious so i can't trade Machinery with him. Annoyingly i also forgot to get his world map,fortunately Willem's map tells me just enough .

I really need to get a move on meeting the others so i trade education with Willem for machinery (he was researching education already), philosophy for optics.I get nationalism from lib immediately beginning on the Taj.

No bulbing to steel this time, it's 1080 already so it's too risky. Moreover i want to go with Cuirassiers this time, if they're good enough for Rusten and U Sun they're good enough for me.

I plan to adopt nationhood when Taj's GA starts to draft janissaries. No economic buildings for a while,only forges,barracks, stables and units. All the tiles that i hadn't improved yet get workshops now. with guilds chemistry and caste system a plains tile produces 5 hammers, work 4 tiles like these in a city and you spam units very quickly. I'd have to do the math but i've read that farming those tiles then whipping seems to give about the same or even slightly better results, i hate the MM of constantly timing whips in all my cities during mid game however.

Research at 155 gpt/turn is very low. Strangely enough if you have 150 or 450 gpt/turn at this stage often doesn't matter that much. techs like printing press, chemistry,constitution, replaceable parts,banking, economics and most of the time scientific methods are usually traded freely.between 1000-1500 AD and most civs will have them all 1500 AD. You just beeline to the ones you really need (military tradition in my case here), trade for the rest. It gets serious again with steel,physics etc. If you don't have good research when these techs come around you'll fall behind. This is a very general observation, i wonder if you have the same feeling about this stage in the game.

No screenshots so i put in some saves.

 

[patagonia]

125AD - 1000AD (40 turns)

Spoiler :

125AD - Revolt to Buddhism; I figured it's about time I start boosting relations with Willem to "pleased". He may be peaceful, but I'm very weak.

150AD - Priesthood > Sailing.

225AD - Sailing > CoL.

350AD - GS2 born in Ankara (sleeping).

425AD - Shwedagon Paya completed in Edirne; revolt to Pacifism.

Thanks for the advice about building for cash rather than to complete, and it's true that I can bulb philosophy in 4 turns so it's not gained me a great deal in that respect either. However, I want to see if I can win a peaceful space-race from this position, which means gaining the cultural upper hand on Willem has to take priority. It just occurred to me that revolting to pacifism now was a mistake too - should have waited until CoL was in to swap 2 civics at once.

520AD - Slave revolt in Istanbul

560AD - CoL > Alphabet (aiming to put a couple of turns in and get off Willem in a trade; it's his only available tech).

580AD - CoL stolen by Willem

600AD - GS3 born in Istanbul (sleeping).

680AD - Willem completes Notre Dame in Rotterdam (the border city under pressure from Edirne).

800AD - Alphabet finally discovered > CS; Philosophy bulbed; Taoism founded; revolt to caste system.

That seems incredibly late to me...

940AD - Willem builds the AP - free hammers for all!

960AD - GS4 born in Istanbul (sleeping).

980AD - Philosophy stolen by Willem; I successfully begged for his 5GPT as scant compensation.

1000AD -

Musings
No changes to the map as despite having 4 courthouses for 5 cities I don't seem to be able to afford more. I've got a settler parked up by the northern sheep/clam site waiting for CS to come in so that I can found one there, and I'm hoping to raze the barb city in the NE that's blocking the ubiquitous copper location once Willem's units arrive to help. He keeps sending a stack and turning round when he's half-way there.

I'm wondering if it would have been a good idea to go for currency before CS (or even CoL) - the extra commerce from trade routes sure would be handy right now, and building wealth in the capital would be much more efficient than building research with the slider this low.

I don't have much of a plan from here other than to limp to Liberalism and hope someone from the war-ravaged other continent shows up soon so I can back-fill a bit. Willem's researching astronomy so he must have met them by now, but he's still not willing to trade (just stealing whatever I have on him).

 

[Olodune]

Suleiman, Chapter 4

640-1370ad

Spoiler :

This chapter was supposed to be a glorious march to liberalism without any pressure, so Pacifism was passed over in favor of Organized Religion (since we're far behind on useful infrastructure).

However, I would soon regret settling 1 GSci, and using 2 others for Academies, because Willem teched quite well:

That throws a monkey wrench into Suleiman's plan of picking Nationalism and building the Taj (with our northern marble).

I've also met a very powerful Gandhi, and obtained a map of the other continent. Because I'm still #1 in land area and we're running a lot of cottages (to pay for over-expanding early), I decide to head through Nat->Const->Demo before beelining a Military Tech. I did a lot of backfilling trading with Gandhi/Vicky/Willem. Democracy finishes in 1370, leaving the Ottoman Empire in a decent position (but not as strong as I'd hoped).

Tech Overview (1370):

And the Dutch Border:

We're still holding most of the contentious tiles (Free Speech is helping ). And I'm pleasantly surprised at being #2 in score, despite a completely peaceful game so far.

Somewhat concerning Demographics (we are still in a GA, too )

Plan from Here
As Military Tradition is a very widely known tech, I'm hesitant to head into Dutch Territory with only a force of Jannies+Cannons. Rifles would make me feel much more comfortable ...

The SoL is tempting, both for denial and free specialists, but hammers towards banks/spies/units may be more important.

I've still not met Shaka, and I may delay doing so for as long as possible ...

Mistakes
Willem should have died sooner, getting a tech lead on the Orange Fellow is surprisingly difficult (didn't he start effectively isolated too? )

Being too laid back on the Liberalism race cost me, when Willem reached the finish first, by about 6 turns

I built slightly too many cities too soon, blocking Willem in and slowly backfilling seems to have been the stronger opening.

Save Attached (feedback always welcome, of course)

 

[silverbullet]

@patagonia:

Spoiler :

I just opened your save and I have some feedback.
I think you have too few cities for 1000AD. Your early game started stronger than mine, letting you grab more than me towards the south, but it seems that you just stalled your growth at some point.
Why did you not settle the north?
You can afford more cities easily even before bureaucracy. I just checked and if you lower your science slider to 0 you have +30 gold per turn, so you still have room to grow, and that is before hiring merchants.

Regarding your capital - too few cottages IMO. You are working a mine and a lake tile -why? You should have grown cottages there since the beginning to maximize the benefit of bureaucracy. Currency before CS would have been better I think.

Ankara has too few farms. Even cottage cities need some farms to grow quickly and whip infrastructure. It seems that your cities are either all cottages or all farms.

Overall, I think you will have to go to war with Willem at some point. Even if you settle the north, you don't have enough production and science to compete for space.

@Dirk

Spoiler :

techs like printing press, chemistry,constitution, replaceable parts,banking, economics and most of the time scientific methods are usually traded freely.between 1000-1500 AD and most civs will have them all 1500 AD. You just beeline to the ones you really need (military tradition in my case here), trade for the rest. It gets serious again with steel,physics etc. If you don't have good research when these techs come around you'll fall behind. This is a very general observation, i wonder if you have the same feeling about this stage in the game.

I agree with your observation. I think it goes even further on this map because:
1) We are philosophical, more GS, we can bulb physics, and maybe biology.
2) We started in isolation, meaning that WFYABTA doesn't exist allowing us more trades when we meet the other continents (including brokering - I think the AIs also have WFYABTA with each other, so effectively at this time you are the only one they trade with unless friendly).

 

[Sleepless]

- 960AD

Spoiler :

Good news at last someone built the S paya so I have got some gold in the bank.

Of course the really bad news is someone has discovered Lib . Its not Wil either although he is not far off as I can only get a little bit of gold for Edu. Afterthought as well if they hadn't been built at the same time I could of taken Free Rel from S.Paya so a double whammy.

So my original plans are out of going for Lib/Nat and Jans. I think a change of civics to go back to slave, whip my cities for infrastructure then back to Pac and more GS. Undecided but think I will go for optics and find the other civs. Hopefully edu will have some trade value there.

Good point is that this has made my game a lot harder so a lot more thought needed. No need to keep the forests in the capital now so will cottage that up. Not planning to attack Wil for a very long time not that I have any troops either.

Any thoughts or comments very welcome. Although I probably will have played on by then.

 

[Gliese 581]

Part 3 (790 AD -1295 AD):

I could use some advice of where to take it from here. I'm pondering several options.

Spoiler :

Tech order: MC > Compass > CS > Paper > Education > Liberalism
Bulbs: Optics, Astronomy, Part of Education

The wars abroad continued and the 11th gg was born in 835 AD, I kind of stopped counting at this point.

In 860 UoS was built so I was going to have to scramble for Liberalism after getting Astronomy.
I managed to finally repay Willem a little for all the stolen techs.

This would help me bulb Astronomy and also hook up my sugar.
I noticed I needed a port on the eastern shores to make a better attempt to get the circumnavigation bonus so it was time to found another city.

After Compass had finished I used two stored GSs to bulb optics and Part of Astronomy then started researching CS. I upgraded a trireme on the west coast to start exploring immediately.
Then I got a nice quest.

Yep the libraries quest with 6 libraries built and the TGL built as well. What could go wrong? I switched production in both my junk city and in Diyarbakir on the east coast to libraries since I couldn't figure out which would be faster, and started chopping in both cities.
Unfortunately, 4 turns later I lost the quest since another civ beat me to the goal. Another GS was born and I used him to finish Astronomy.

Then my western caravel made contact with another continent.

I withheld trading to get the diplomatic situation sorted out first. I quickly met up with Victoria, Peter, Qin and Shaka (whom had vassalized to the former). There were still one civ to meet but everyone had cautious or better contacts with Qin who was buddhist and I knew the missing civ had built the Buddhist Shrine as well as the AP and so was likely a friend of Qin.
So I decided to start trading with Qin which gave me a significant gpt boost and some resources.

In 1180 I got some bad news as Qin built the Taj Mahal. A few turns later in 1250 AD I won the circumnavigation bonus for +1 movement. The diversion to a library in Diyarbakir cost me some time but it turned out I got Optics at roughly the same time as the other continent and we all know what happens when the AI does not have a handicap in this race.
After finising CS I bulbed the first part of Education and started researching it, unfrtunately I didn't have another GS ready or I would have used it to get Education directly. As it was, I discovered that Victoria already had Education.

In 1255 I finally met the last AI, Gandhi.
A look at the glance tab.

As you can see Gandhi and Peter don't like each other very much and are at war. In fact, noone but Qin really likes Peter although he's in the tech lead. Since Peter likes Qin as well I quickly decided to go with the majority and start trading with Gandhi, this pissed of Shaka as well but he's already out of the contention despite all the warring. He was actually attacked by Gandhi at one point or the other, now THAT's hilarious.

Since me and Gandhi was new best friends and he was lagging behind a bit in techs compared to the other civs over there I took the opportunity to do some trades.

I could also have gotten Drama and HBR from the second trade but I figured one less tech toward WFYABTA and that I can leverage the +2xp in a war with Willem.
After finishing up builds in my cities I put them on stagnated growth or even at growth deficit one by one and maximized science output while switching their production to wealth in an attempt to get Liberalism ASAP.

I also did a trade with Qin to keep my research at a deficit longer and snag a turn.

He had already met Willem and I had won the circumnavigation event so I figured why not.
It was not to be however.

I got beat to it by 4 turns not by Victoria but by Peter, nice trading and research there Vicky!
If I had had one more GS I would've won or if I had correctly disregarded TGL earlier and went after COL then Astronomy wo researching poly, med, priesthood and literature first.

Since the game was up I decided to do some more trading.

One good thing about being virtually isolated as others mentioned earlier in this thread is that we're probably far from WFYABTA limits. Anyhow, it's all useful stuff.
I had held a settler ready but waited for the liberalism race to be resolved, I founded the crab sheep city up north as my last action for this round.

A look at the tech screen.

Now the question is, where to go from here? I spawned another GS that I bulbed for Printing Press which might have been a mistake. So tech-wise I have about 5 turns left of both Liberalism and Priniting Press.
I want to attack Willem to secure the win, the question is, with what and when? I have access to trebs and I can go for janissaries directly or I could go for oxford while teching to rifling. Do I need trebs?

Since everyone has switched to Mercantilism except Peter I don't gain anything any longer from my Astronomy monopoly and I think some of the other might be thinking about researching it if they haven't started already. With that in mind, should I trade it for Nationalism? If I decide to trade it I wish I had saved my GS as Qin is willing to trade Printing Press away.
I'm thinking I could trade for Nationalism then use my next GP for a golden age to revolt to Nationhood, Slavery and Theocracy and draft some units then switch back at the end of the GA. Perhaps I should consider cuirassiers/cavalry? Do I have any use for the Globe Theatre and if so should I build it in Ankara? What about the extra GA pollution?
I would really appreciate it if some of you had a look at my save and gave me some advise.

Edit: Oh and I forgot, both Vicky and Qin are WHEOOHRN, I think they plan on ganging up on Peter, unless Qin is planning to attack me, but he has no transports to do a naval invasion.

 

[Gliese 581]

Sleepless:

Spoiler :

Good game! As I said before I was impressed already by the 820 AD screenshot, you managed to grab all the gold and gems and get cottages AND a great GP farm up early. Beat my research easilly at that point. Bad luck on the western fish/sugar city? I saw you had a settler ready there in one of your screenshot but it appears Willem claimed the spot at the last moment?

To bad you didn't have as much strife on the other continent as I did, it wasn't until 1295 AD in my game that Liberalism got discovered!

Are you planning to move the capital soon? Because otherwise you really need to get some cottages going in Istanbul.

I think you should go for Machinery after Compass then bulb Optics with your next scientist and go Lit for the NE to get 2 more GSs to bulb Astronomy.

Keep up the good work!

 

[Sleepless]

@Gliese 581

Spoiler :

Shouldn't really have looked at your post as I now know who the other AI are.

You seem to be in the same position I am. Losing lib 960AD has totally wrecked my plans. Tao going in 900BC should have been a clue for me. (A good thing to note is if you found Tao you have a very good chance at Lib. If someone else founds it that early expect an early Lib date).

I'm probably going to try and attack Wil with Rifles/Cannons then go to space but that seems a long way off. Army wise I'm so weak a paper bag would beat me at the moment.

I'll have to try and work out the best bulbing strategy and take it from there. I'll be interested to see how our games compare. Good Luck on what route you take though.

 

[Sleepless]

Sleepless:

Spoiler :

Good game! As I said before I was impressed already by the 820 AD screenshot, you managed to grab all the gold and gems and get cottages AND a great GP farm up early. Beat my research easilly at that point. Bad luck on the western fish/sugar city? I saw you had a settler ready there in one of your screenshot but it appears Willem claimed the spot at the last moment?

To bad you didn't have as much strife on the other continent as I did, it wasn't until 1295 AD in my game that Liberalism got discovered!

Are you planning to move the capital soon? Because otherwise you really need to get some cottages going in Istanbul.

I think you should go for Machinery after Compass then bulb Optics with your next scientist and go Lit for the NE to get 2 more GSs to bulb Astronomy.

Keep up the good work!

Spoiler :

I'm to slow in posting and read this after I had just posted my reply. Good point about cottages for the capital. I was going to after chopping the forests for the Taj. Don't think I'll bother now. I think I've missed the chance of bulbing astro as I've researched Edu so next one will be P/Press. Going for Optics is one of my options though as I need to meet the AI but expect I will soon anyway. Can't resist anymore so back to the game.

 

[ungy]

up to 1635

Spoiler :

I settle 1E like most people and I struggle a bit early on. I think I build 5 warriors and the 4 I send south all die quick so I don't have much scouting down there when I pop the first settler. I agonize on this as I have a good spot up north but really want to block. I end up taking the spot to the N. and end up with reasonable blocking anyway due to Willem's slow expansion.

This is a really good game for me as I have trouble with the shared continent games when a rush is difficult. I get lucky twice early on--I pop silver in the capital and get an event that gives archers combat 1. I still lose a combat 2 archer in woods to a barb warrior--0.0% chance --don't think I've lost one of those before.
I manage to get lib although Willie is way ahead of me in tech and then do the usual backfill. I detour to democracy to pick up the SOL as it only costs me maybe 6-7 turns off rifling due to trading. Not sure if that was correct tho--maybe better to let him build it then capture it.
I start the war with Willem with rifles/cannon and quickly grab 3 cities before I get an unpleasant surprise--infantry. Still I've destroyed most of his forces and have numbers on my side so I continue and take Amsterdam and another.
He then offers cap and I take it--maybe I should have continued but game is won at this point anyway. I have an engineer for mining and a bunch of settled specs in capital.

 

[ungy]

forgot save:

 

[patagonia]

@patagonia:

Spoiler :

I just opened your save and I have some feedback.
I think you have too few cities for 1000AD. Your early game started stronger than mine, letting you grab more than me towards the south, but it seems that you just stalled your growth at some point.
Why did you not settle the north?
You can afford more cities easily even before bureaucracy. I just checked and if you lower your science slider to 0 you have +30 gold per turn, so you still have room to grow, and that is before hiring merchants.

Regarding your capital - too few cottages IMO. You are working a mine and a lake tile -why? You should have grown cottages there since the beginning to maximize the benefit of bureaucracy. Currency before CS would have been better I think.

Ankara has too few farms. Even cottage cities need some farms to grow quickly and whip infrastructure. It seems that your cities are either all cottages or all farms.

Overall, I think you will have to go to war with Willem at some point. Even if you settle the north, you don't have enough production and science to compete for space.

@ silverbullet:

Spoiler :

Thanks for your feedback.

That stage of the game is definitely my weakest as I always seem to stagnate and this situation with one rival is definitely the one I'm worst at dealing with (isolation allows you to optimize settling/rex much more as there's no competition for good sites if you fog-bust).

I was hoping CoL would give my economy a shot in the arm, but that didn't really materialize and I was left feeling like I couldn't afford more territory and still slog my way through alphabet and CS to get bulbing seriously. Looking at other games, I should have just crashed the slider since that'd get new cities productive earlier in the game.

I also completely forgot about running merchants .

I'm hoping a bit of back-filling when the other continent eventually show up, coupled with a post-emancipation boom will help, but I need to abandon caste to do more whipping first (followed by rush-buying in new/hammer poor cities later). I don't think my existing city placement has helped a great deal either, since I went for a land-resource grab and have ended up with a load of land I can't irrigate until CS (hence all the cottages as the only improvement I could build there instead of the jungle).

 

[ABigCivFan]

@Dirk1302

Spoiler :

Yeah, the nortern barbs were relentless. Since I did not prioritize on horse or metals early so i had to divert a lot of hammers on about 10 archers to defend capital. Good thing is those archers were later used to garrison cities so no waste. Archers do ok fogbusting, they get to cover promo quickly and can hold hill or forrest tile very well.

@Silverbullet

Sure, i will post 1000AD and 1755AD saves here.

Laterly I found myself fighting more Industrial/Modern era warfares.

* Mass built Factory/Coal plants neutralize AI prod bonus quickly;
* Mount Rushmore/Jails/Police State deal with WW much better
* Artillary is plain mean with taking cities (especially against Machine guns)
* Railway and fast reinforcement shipping.
* Drafted Infantry do well against anything
* With HE/WP, quickly built CR3 tanks could mow through 2 city defenders per turn.
* Kill/Loss ratio can be maximized with this kind of combined force.
* Enough EP for support multiple city revolts
* Taking cities at very fast rate.

But if early rush is viable, it still is better to rush ASAP for more good land and a stronger early power curve.

1535AD-1755AD:

Spoiler :

War preparations:

1. Built HE/Moai and IW in 2 coastal cities for both land and navy units. IW city had several hills and a long river with huge levee hammer output.

2. Mass built Levees/Factories/Coal plants with OR bonus.

3. Built Globe in northern Marble/Corn/farm city as it will not grow too large but had decent food to support frequent draft. Build two more farm/draft city right next to capital; built grannary/Barracks/bunch of farms and they are ready for drafting.

4. Switched to Nationhood/Theo for drafting, pinch Infantry+CR2 artillaries.

5. Traded electricity to Williem for his Railroad before DOW him to build a fast troop transportation rail network.


Unleashed on him arond 1730AD with large force of Infantry/Artillary/Cavs. Destroyed Dutch empire at 1810AD with single digit losses.

1755AD: Spoils of Amsterdam, GW and SOL still useful.




1800AD: My ancient CR2 swords slashing through wounded enemy rifles..


1810AD: Dutch destroyed.




Next, building Cristor, adopt US/FS/Eman/FM/FR to max science. With my current tech lead should be able to cruise to space. Bribe the other conti into a messy war if needed.