Impact of patch on each civ.

_hero_

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A. Arabia- They got a real nerf but the double luxuries was too good. You're going to have to make use of Camel Archers, and you're going to have to make use of tanks, which got a buff, which has nice synergy with your extra oil. The minor gold boost from Bazaars now is sad. You might end up getting nothing out of it on some maps.

B. America- The change to Minutemen is nice especially since Longswordsmen are probably weaker then Muskets now, oh and Gunpowder is less beakers. The UA buff is nice but not a big deal. Rush to muskets with free drill 1. Try to have an Armory+Heroic epic by the time you get there. Have some gold saved up to buy them if possible and have some Trebuchets ready to go. Now's your time to take the offensive.

C. China- Another nerf to China's UA. Not a big deal IMO since GGs are too easy to come by anyways and especially with Cho Ko Nu's getting buffed. Overall they got better, and Honor got a lot better, along with Rationalism, two of China's favorite SPs. You have a pretty clear strategy now. Beeline writing. Rex and libraries while Beelining to Cho Ko Nu's. Have them ready to buy/upgrade. Honor helps. Expand as much as you can while you have the advantage. Beeline to the next era. Stop your war as soon as it gets hard while filling out Rationalism. Spam science all over the place and play defense. Launch a spaceship.

D. Babylon- The UA nerf was needed, but the civ got better due to the fact that Academy spamming just became sick. Academies themselves are better with Scientific Theory, they now connect Strategic Resources, they get a 100% boost from freedom, and you can get an extra free GP from Hagia Sophia now. So you can get 1 GS from Writing, 1 from filling Liberty, 1 from Hagia Sophia. Academies now will be 6*100%(freedom)*50%(Uni with Rationalism)*50%(Research Lab)*50%(NC)*15% (Sovereignty). That isn't counting Observatories and whatever the increase is from Scientific theory, but just with that it will mean you're getting over 20 beakers per turn from a single tile, if it's only additive. If it's multiplicative, it will be at least 40. In fact it will be more than 40 after Scientific theory. When it's all said and done, you could be looking at hundreds of bulbs per turn from your Academies. If you spam scientists in this city you could get over realistically get 1000 beakers per turn in a single city with some work and lots of Academies and specialists. I've seen it done before this patch when trying for it in an ideal game. With all the boosts it's probably possible without ideal circumstances now.

E. France- Reduction to early SPs and reduced SP cost gain from cities+nerf to longswords (boosting muskets indirectly) and your looking at one of the great civs becoming better. You can do whatever you want, France. The SP trees are yours to manipulate. The fact that you can even more easily expand and still crank policies now is just depressing for everyone else. Do as you please, Napoleon.

F. India- Does the increase in base city unhappiness mean India now gets 6 unhappiness from cities (double) or do they get 5 (+2) or did they remain unchanged (4). If it's 6, that really makes India's UA not thrive until much later. The break even point now becomes a 6 pop city instead of a 4 pop city. Not to mention, you'll be starved for happiness early on and with luxuries getting cut down building new cities will pretty much kill any growth every time until you get way ahead. Hanging Gardens is now your best buddy. Play like you were intended to, go Tradition and fill it out and have Delhi be a 50 pop city. Start your expansion after you've gotten happiness under control with policies, wonders, and luxuries. Later then before.

G. Iroquois- Iron working is cheaper, Mohawk warriors need no Iron. Changes to Honor and cheaper early culture. Well here's a strategy for you. Build nothing but warriors (maybe 1 worker and 1 monument) Adopt Honor and slaughter barbs for free culture. Bee-line for Professional army for cheap upgrades then fill out the tree. (Not sure how long that will take due to the unknown new scaling) Mass upgrade to Mohawk warriors and go on a killing spree. Worried about Gold? Good thing you now get gold for every unit you kill once you fill out honor. Besides those trade routes of yours will be dirt cheap of course, especially since you don't even pay maintenance on roads under captures cities.

H. Germany- A decent boost. Tanks got better, Civil Service got cheaper (Landsknecht Power) maintenance is lowered (so the barb capture 'bonus' doesn't totally ruin your economy as fast). Honor got better. Use it to barb capture while getting culture, and use your surplus of units as a garrison. Hopefully with Professional Army and cheaper land unit maintenance you can afford to upgrade those brutes to swords finally.

I. Aztec- The honor bonus stacking with your bonus just means you'll be getting ridiculous culture from raging barb maps, oh and Jags got a minor boost. Sweet. Keep doing what you've been doing. Enjoy having your best early policy tree buffed and your UU buffed, and enjoy getting what 12 culture from every brute you kill? I hate you.

J. Egypt- Buff to War Chariots and another Nerf to Marble and Aristocracy means your bonuses got even better. Oh and you got your artist slot on your UB finally. Make war with War Chariots, pick a few wonders to get, and enjoy having extra happiness compared to everyone else. Play defensively after you take out a few neighbors until you're wonders and improved cities put you in a position to dominate.

K. England- Well, you were ignored. Well, this: "Defense penalty and city assault bonus promotions are now lost with upgrade." might come in handy for your Longbows when they upgrade to Rifles, I don't know.

L. Greece- The Patronage finisher is an assult on your UA. Cry a little. Or maybe your UA will let you be the only civ that can afford CSs if someone has the Patronage finisher. Anyways, with Walls being weakened, maybe your Hopolites are a little better equipped to take cities now.

M. Japan- Honor+whatever+Autocracy FTW. Sorry that your Samurai's got nerfed, but your formula for success remains unchanged. It just might take you a little longer to pull it off now.

N. Ottomans- Nerf to Longswords is a buff to muskets. Oh and the UA buff is nice but it's still a crappy UA. At least now you can go fill the world with barb boats and bombard a city to nothing without paying much gold. Cool I guess, if it's not a Pangea.

O. Persia- Must get Freedom, no longer care about Chitchen Itza. Honor is a little more desirable now because it's a solid happiness boost and you are this weird civ designed to wage war and try to keep as much excess happiness as possible. Honor+Freedom seems like your best bet.

P. Rome- Well they improved siege. Buff to ballistas I guess? Oh and they reduced building costs and gave more policy boost to production. This either makes your UA less interesting or an even bigger boost depending on how you look at it. They also weakened Longswords so maybe your Legions aren't even worth the upgrade cost right away now.

Q. Russia- You got ignored. I mean, cool Kreposts now give XP to all units. Good. Otherwise just keep doing what you've been doing, and hey if you are really ballsy, you could go Autocracy->Facism and combine it with your UA to have quadrupled Uranium and sell it off...or just build far too many nukes and wipe civs out before they have a chance to respond. Up to you.

R. Siam- Well the early cut to cultural CSs makes your UA more useful then, the late buff to them makes your UA downright sick late game, but say goodbye to the easy Wat rush of this last patch. Have fun not having stuff handed to you like the rest of us you cheeseball. Patronage+Rationalism?

S. Songhai- Nerfomatic. But hey, the buffs to Honor make up for it. Barb hunting is going to be more competitive now, but you still get the most out of it, and your UU still is nice. A horse that can kill cities (actually better then nerfed longswords now). You officially have the best pre-gunpowder city fighter.

T. Mongolia- Umm, well hey, they weakened cities a little. Maybe it will be easier for you now and Honor and Autocracy got a buff. Fun for you. Your strategy hasn't changed but your execution might have gotten easier. Keep an eye on your happiness.

U. Spain- Like I said, nerf to longswords=buff to Muskets. Also, cities hurting SP costs less makes Conquistador settling ability slightly more desirable. No real changes to your play-style thought.

V. Inca- Slinger buff. Capture city road cost buff is ultimately a very minor nerf to the relative value of your UA. Still a fun patch for you. Spam Slingers with a few melee units around to take cities. Let your slingers get attacked. If they don't retreat they will probably survive the first strike now. Let your melee take the leveled city. Lather, rinse, repeat until they are riflemen.

W. Denmark- HAHA (one of) YOUR UU(s) GOT NERFED. Oh but combat got a buff through policies so you don't care. If Naval Tradition stacks with your UA embark movement bonus (it should) then there is some added utility there. Just make sure you have more then just Berserkers in your armies now.
 
The patch didn't say anything about double luxuries resources from bazaar was removed,neither replaced for this new ability and I think you are too precipitated in writing this thread now. let's wait the patch going out to know which impact each civilization has.

M. Japan- Honor+whatever+Autocracy FTW. Sorry that your Samurai's got nerfed, but your formula for success remains unchanged. It just might take you a little longer to pull it off now.

You forgot to add that now you can mix Liberty in this whatever,because Autocracy and Liberty are no longer mutually exclusive
 
The patch didn't say anything about double luxuries resources from bazaar was removed,neither replaced for this new ability and I think you are too precipitated in writing this thread now. let's wait the patch going out to know which impact each civilization has.



You forgot to add that now you can mix Liberty in this whatever,because Autocracy and Liberty are no longer mutually exclusive

Ok the notes didn't say it, but in all other instances when something was an addition to a current bonus the Patch notes used the words "additional" or "also" as in
Honor Opener now additionally provides Culture for each barbarian killed.
Warrior Code now also gives 15% melee unit production.

and when it was a replacement for a current feature it did not , but rather used the word "now" as in
Landed Elite now provides 1 Happiness at every 10 Citizens in each City.
Tradition Finisher: +15% Growth and +2 Food in each city.

Where, obviously Landed Elite lost it's old bonus.

Finally, I think this is the perfect time to DISCUSS the changes. When the patch comes out we'll be too busy playing. Theorizing about the impact of a patch on strategy seems perfectly legitimate and valid to me. If you think otherwise then why are you even posting in the thread? If you don't want to discuss it then you don't have to but you don't need to tell other posters what they can and can't discuss. You're not a mod last time I checked?

P.S. I didn't forget to mention Liberty, I just didn't feel like it is a necessary choice to Japan's strategy so I left it out. There is no clear-cut advantage for Japan taking Liberty vs Rationalism, Piety, Commerce, Tradition, Order, or Patronage to combine with their Bushido IMO.
 
England was totally ignored! I love playing them, I think they should just totally can the Ottoman trait (its not like they have any reservations altering the game), give them something more historically aligned and give the reduction in naval maintenance to England (but perhaps only 50% or 33%).

Your assessment seems good enough, never thought about Greece, they will totally get the shaft if someone gets the Patronage finisher. Speaking of that I wonder why they didn't change united front in the Order branch, and will it stack do you think? what will that make it... 66% reduction? OUCH!
 
I am I the only one who's noticed that now Songhai's UU has been nerfed, Spain's Knight UU is much better!? It has all of Songai's UU abilities plus extra sight AND founding foreign cities...
 
England was totally ignored! I love playing them, I think they should just totally can the Ottoman trait (its not like they have any reservations altering the game), give them something more historically aligned and give the reduction in naval maintenance to England (but perhaps only 50% or 33%).

Your assessment seems good enough, never thought about Greece, they will totally get the shaft if someone gets the Patronage finisher. Speaking of that I wonder why they didn't change united front in the Order branch, and will it stack do you think? what will that make it... 66% reduction? OUCH!

Greece should focus on completing Patronage anyway. When they also have the finisher, anybody competing will find themselves in the same position as before!
 
I am I the only one who's noticed that now Songhai's UU has been nerfed, Spain's Knight UU is much better!? It has all of Songai's UU abilities plus extra sight AND founding foreign cities...

I don't get it. Why Mandekalu Cavalry has special now? they didn't replace the atk bonus against cities with something else. that's obviously to make Conquistador even better. damn it,Firaxis,now Mandekalu Cavalry is one of the worst uu in the game. at least I hope that the Honor Finisher branch stack with Songhai ua,because Songhai is my favorite civ.
 
I think Persia's Economy just got ridiculous. The Golden Ages will automatically be entire games with Chichen Itza and the Freedom Finisher. Thats absurd. The AI is gonna have alot of fun if Darius prioritizes both. Ugh:cry:
 
England was not totally ignored, in fact it got a nice boost to the SoL, in a round about sort of way.
Barracks, Armory, Military Academy and Krepost now provide experience to all units trained.
As did Japan's 2nd UU, the Zero and America's 2nd UU, the B17 since naval and air units should now be getting all the bonus experience from these buildings.
 
You're misreading the patch notes. The Bazaar now provides 2 gold per oil/oasis PLUS the double resources function that it already performs.
 
Mandekalu Cav dind't get that much worse, just 10%, and founding foreign cities is not that big a deal so conquistadors not that much better. Plus now that longswords got worse mandekalu cavalry became more valuable. I'll take Songhai any day they need no luck to be good, and have bonuses for pangaea, barb money, or water, embarked defence. The triple gold bonus for cities and barbs is worth more unless you're a pacifist than Spain's wonder gold. Especially adding in 2 gold per temple for no maintenance. And even at +1 culture over the Mud Pyramid Mosque still should outgain any Spanish natural wonder culture gains.

India got more powerful since theocracy did not stack with their UA or monarchy I believe. The 25% came out of the modified population numbers. With new sources of building happiness which just adds happiness to the cap they can get even bigger. I don't do xml diving though so bibor or some other knowledgable player please correct me if I am wrong.
 
You're misreading the patch notes. The Bazaar now provides 2 gold per oil/oasis PLUS the double resources function that it already performs.

Arabia: Bazaar now gives 2 gold on oil/oasis.

I thought at first that this was an addition, but given how it's written, there's no reason to assume it keeps the free lux.

granted, that could just be a bad writing of the change and he missed a word, but it might not be.

given the changes to happiness, and the fact that the Arab AI already has insane spam of lux deals/RAs, I'm thinking they got rid of the free lux part to ensure that the Arabs weren't the only ones who could trade lux.

Though, if so, it's a massive fall from how good the building was, so the Arabs go from near the top of the list to mid-bottom.
 
Arabia: Bazaar now gives 2 gold on oil/oasis.

I thought at first that this was an addition, but given how it's written, there's no reason to assume it keeps the free lux.

granted, that could just be a bad writing of the change and he missed a word, but it might not be.

given the changes to happiness, and the fact that the Arab AI already has insane spam of lux deals/RAs, I'm thinking they got rid of the free lux part to ensure that the Arabs weren't the only ones who could trade lux.

Though, if so, it's a massive fall from how good the building was, so the Arabs go from near the top of the list to mid-bottom.

I'd be willing to bet that it is a replacement. Arabia was already considered overpowered I highly doubt they did an outright buff. I hope it isn't because that is an over-nerf, but logic tells me that it is a replacement.

As for the Songhai, I think you guys are over-reacting. Lets look at the facts. Knights are going to have the most combat str of any unit until Rifles/Calvary now because of the longsword nerf. Mandeluke calvary don't get the 33% penalty that all the other knights get. That means that they can hit cities as hard as longswords used to be able to. No other unit at that point in the game is going to be able to hit cities that hard and now, Mandeluke's are going to be able to take longswords 1 on 1 in a fight rather then it being a stalemate. They lost the 10% bonus they had after the last patch, but they are still the best city fighters of the era. Conquistidors still get the 33% penalty against cities.
 
i expect longswords will go from 18 to 16. any less and they'll look pretty silly compared to legion (13).

france is going to be crazy powerful. it'll be interesting to see how quickly they can fill out liberty via rex.
 
Arabia: Bazaar now gives 2 gold on oil/oasis.

I thought at first that this was an addition, but given how it's written, there's no reason to assume it keeps the free lux.

granted, that could just be a bad writing of the change and he missed a word, but it might not be.

given the changes to happiness, and the fact that the Arab AI already has insane spam of lux deals/RAs, I'm thinking they got rid of the free lux part to ensure that the Arabs weren't the only ones who could trade lux.

Though, if so, it's a massive fall from how good the building was, so the Arabs go from near the top of the list to mid-bottom.

I dont thinx they changed it because there is a achievement with the bazar for selling extra luxury resource so...
 
An excellent point. I'm now confident the extra copies will stay. ;)

yeah, surely they made the most powerful unique building slightly more powerful :rolleyes:

this.

Consider - lux's are more 'precious' due to the happiness changes. (+1unhappy/city, -1happy/lux - as a direct example for early REx issues)

So getting 'free' copies used to be like printing free money. now that building has to get better at getting free money?
 
It's hard to speculate how civs are going to be affected by the patches because:

1. The patch notes aren't final. Things can change.

and

2. Most of the information in the notes are vague. Longswords getting nerfed could mean only -1 strength or it could be -5 strength.
 
france is going to be crazy powerful. it'll be interesting to see how quickly they can fill out liberty via rex.

The only question is whether or not any other civs can even compete. Siam will probably remain best for a Cultural game, but takes some huge early game hits. Babylon will remain a powerful peacemonger, but takes a major hit in momentum strategies. Egypt will now have the Legalism trick of choice (which will synergize neatly with REX). Songhai probably gets demoted back to tier 2 status; the hits to the MPM and early RA efficiency smart.

I don't see anyone other than Egypt emerging, I can't see France retaining that UA at +2 :c5culture:/city indefinitely, and I think that Burial Tombs will either get maintenance or get hit to +1 :c5happy: if the game plays the way I expect post-patch.
 
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