Imperial Glory

[bestrfcplayer]

How many of you will think that this will last longer than the ABNW seires? I see this NES to have very good patentoal. Good job EQ in making yet another good NES.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

I don't hate the Ottoman Empire- I admit I have been below par since the Malta incident, but that's because I don't cope well with defeat.

1. You said that countries can establish colonies through military force- I assumed they would do so.

2. I was planning to either have the prestige of them cowardly accepting, or more likely the prestige of a military victory to compensate for the Malta incident.

3. Having a major power is my only chance of actually surviving- I'd probably do much worse with a minor. I'm going to keep with the Ottomans until my posistion is (in game terms) untenable.

1. Yes, but what is the point when the territory is all desert? That's the real point I'm trying to make here.

2. Yes, but then you lose the protectorates and probably more than just that.

3. See the good points veterans of my NESes have made over the day. I'd really recommend taking a nice open nation like Baden (which has plenty of strong friends). Personally, I have seen major powers destroyed well before they should be, and that's why a new player with whom I have no experience is not my preferred leader of the Ottoman Empire. Take the advice of your fellow players, or at very least reconsider your current courses.

 

[TheWesley]

1. Yes, but what is the point when the territory is all desert? That's the real point I'm trying to make here.

2. Yes, but then you lose the protectorates and probably more than just that.

3. See the good points veterans of my NESes have made over the day. I'd really recommend taking a nice open nation like Baden (which has plenty of strong friends). Personally, I have seen major powers destroyed well before they should be, and that's why a new player with whom I have no experience is not my preferred leader of the Ottoman Empire. Take the advice of your fellow players, or at very least reconsider your current courses.

1. It's additional land, which increases the glory of the Empire. Wanting such is in-character- the Scramble for Africa shows the Imperialist attitude of the day.

2. I would re-establish or annex them.

3. I'll reconsider my current course of action, but one false move with Baden and I'd be annexed- that's too much risk.

 

[spryllino]

As Bavaria has said, Bavaria will not allow Baden to be annexed, particularly if it is in the Catholic League. The rest of the Catholic League would not tolerate Baden's annexation either.

The Scramble for Africa was much later. The French only conquered central Algeria in 1901-1906, and even that is a rather loose use of the word 'conquer': there was no-one to speak of to rule there anyway.

 

[D'Artagnan59]

OOC: And there's another minor power. It's more personally fulfilling, to me, to build a small power into a large superpower rather than run with a large power and maintain the status quo.

 

[Tyrion]

Mmm the Scramble for Africa started in the late 19th century, 1880's in OTL, in this time line it may be even later if things go the way they did in brave new world, or earlier if we're better but i doubt we're racing for bits of sand when there are places like India largely unconquered.
Especially given the hostility of the Dark Continent, not only are there established empires down there that we armed in exchange for slaves but the tropical diseases and climate meant to be sent to african colonies was almost as good as a death sentence, thus the use of some forts by colonial powers as prisons.

 

[Karalysia]

when there are places like India largely unconquered.

And apparently capable of wiping the floor with two European powers in a single go.

 

[Tyrion]

Mysore definately was, they were well armed and trained by Europeans. Had a huge amount of guns and well trained army to go with it. The Marathas were also well equipped and armed, the Mughals are the only declining power really.

 

[Terrance888]

@TheWesley: So are you drunk or do you just really hate the Ottoman Empire? There's a third option of course, but I'll let that remain implied. Let's take it point by point shall we.

1. You've asked two countries to expand into useless desert. They are your protectorates not your slaves, they do not have to obey, and plus, you took their money for your own spending (That's what the +4 EP is in you Protectorate section of your stats). Were they supposed to finance things with shiny rocks and pebbles? That's not even going into the lack of any rational reason to expand into, once again, sand and dust.

2. This is more nitpicky than anything, but generally you shouldn't tell someone you're going to take away all of their power and sovereignty. It's usually better to sneak up with that sort of thing.

3. Lastly, are you SURE you're capable of handling a major power? Being a relatively new player, you may not have the insight of a more established NESer. There are more minor powers which I would prefer you would take. If all you care about is being the biggest baddy on the block, that's too damn bad, at the current rate you're not likely to have much power anyways in a few turns. I personally was hoping that we'd have an Ottoman Empire with at least some legitimacy and strength for the bulk of the NES, not just the first two turns.

Just a note.

1, A good reason to expand is to take over the Oasis trading posts dotting the desert. Although they don't matter much now, they allow for some neat retreating zones and counterattack possiblities if coastal-based countries where to be invaded.

2. I concur.

3. Oooo, can we switch? Me and Wesely. joke

 

[Crezth]

Mmm the Scramble for Africa started in the late 19th century, 1880's in OTL, in this time line it may be even later if things go the way they did in brave new world, or earlier if we're better but i doubt we're racing for bits of sand when there are places like India largely unconquered.
Especially given the hostility of the Dark Continent, not only are there established empires down there that we armed in exchange for slaves but the tropical diseases and climate meant to be sent to african colonies was almost as good as a death sentence, thus the use of some forts by colonial powers as prisons.

I think I know who will be calling the shots in this NES...

The best way to take down a native kingdom is piecemeal... soften them up first. China didn't fall in a day. Think Opium Wars, and work from there.

 

[Tyrion]

Was that a compliment Czreth?!?! Hehe long way to go yet, and in my experience something always goes wrong

 

[Crezth]

Was that a compliment Czreth?!?! Hehe long way to go yet, and in my experience something always goes wrong

As long as you and I don't exchange a good ol' fashioned capitol burning we should be good.

 

[Tyrion]

You know mate, i think we might just be able to avoid that.

 

[Matt0088]

Seeing as you're both allied to me, I'd like to have you two avoid that as well.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

1. It's additional land, which increases the glory of the Empire. Wanting such is in-character- the Scramble for Africa shows the Imperialist attitude of the day.

2. I would re-establish or annex them.

3. I'll reconsider my current course of action, but one false move with Baden and I'd be annexed- that's too much risk.

1. As stated above, the Scramble for Africa came about eighty years after the point we're currently at. The "day" of 1800 is MUCH different than the "day" of the Scramble. THe machine gun is (in my opinion) about 80% responsible for the big round of imperialism. At this point, the native armies are usually not armed with weapons that are too far behind European ones. Therefore, empires generally were more pragmatic about what they took or established.

2. But why? And especially with you having probably just pissed off the Catholic League, who I'm sure won't mind knocking out an Islamic eye or two.

3. Yes, but personally I care less about your opinion than the story as a whole, and your opinion looks to detract from the story. Take from that statement what you would.

 

[Tyrion]

the machine gun and Darwin... they used his theory of evolution to promote the idea that white men were superior and we had a 'burden' to educate the natives of africa and the world. Without either there isnt much reason to stake a claim in africa apart from resources/trade, especially considering the hostile climate we colonial powers have more profitable options elsewhere

 

[Karalysia]

1. As stated above, the Scramble for Africa came about eighty years after the point we're currently at. The "day" of 1800 is MUCH different than the "day" of the Scramble. THe machine gun is (in my opinion) about 80% responsible for the big round of imperialism. At this point, the native armies are usually not armed with weapons that are too far behind European ones. Therefore, empires generally were more pragmatic about what they took or established.

Improved medicine so the teste fly and malaria proved to be less of a problem combined with improved technology plus the establishment of the Congo Free State all probably had more importance.

 

[Abaddon]

I call TheWesley's nation for the good of the NES!

 

[TheWesley]

There have been comparable incidents with other major powers, and if EQ wanted to restrict major powers to experienced NESers he would have said so. It is unreasonable to depose me without further evidence that I am (as it claimed) uniquely incompetent.

 

[Abaddon]

Its his game, he can do what he wants..