Imperialistic: no 1/2 production buildings?

[winddbourne]

Lot of good ideas here. Hope I see some of them implimented next month.

However, I do have to point out that any trait that gives a lower cost for "number of cities" would be extremely powerful when combined with State Property which eliminates the cost for distance.

Ideally I'd like to see it run this way:

Extra production/commerce from Capital city
1/2 cost for cities built overseas
1/2 cost for custom houses & Jails

I got rid of -

Cheaper settlers
Twice as many great generals

Replacing them to a bonus to production and commerce in the capital city which would still let you build your settlers faster, and support extra armies or cities in the early game. More early military units would indeed result in more great generals, if your a war player.

The "imperial city" combined with lowered costs for cities over the ocean would encourage you to grow larger early, and keep your colonies rather than turning them into colonies. It would also provide a synergy with the "beaurocracy" civic.

Early in the game the benefit of the imperial city would shrink, especially if you didn't manage your empire wisely, but it would be very nice for those first few turns. Even if it was only a small 5-10% bonus.

I think with this change "Imperial" would be on par with the wonder building of "Industrial", all the gold generated by commercial, and the lack of revolution costs from spiritual. Not to mention the extra XP generated by charismatic. While compared to those right now the trait stinks. lol

 

[Antilogic]

Espionage and spying is one game mechanic that is not clearly represented by any trait. So, it makes sense to add some trait feature that affects it. However, I'm guessing that Firaxis will leave the traits alone (besides Expansive). It'll be up to modders to add it in, or a clever patch.

I don't want to say what a bonus will be until I've actually played the expansion. I can say I am considering a lot of stuff for a mod that I am making, that "corrects" a few things in the game for me. I'll post it if anyone cares to play it...

 

[Watiggi]

+100% Great General 'Emergence'
+50% Faster Settler Production
+50% Spy Points Generated

 

[The_CatSnack]

+100% Great General 'Emergence'
+50% Faster Settler Production
+50% Spy Points Generated

Are you sure that's not too overpowered?

 

[madscientist]

Imperialistic is about FAST border expansion by settlement or war. Also means faster scouting, which you can attribute to better trained mobile units such as horse units. I say the stable should be built in 1/2 the time. Also a great benefit to Ghengis Kahn who should have such an adnavtage based on his historical empire (Just like the Casears get dynamite UUs and Ubs, Americans get Late UUs UBs). Alternative I like the -25% cost to spy missions or preferrable -25% war weariness say outside your cultural borders(forget the 1/2 cost of jails).

 

[Watiggi]

Are you sure that's not too overpowered?

How the hell would I know? :/

 

[homan1983]

Are you sure that's not too overpowered?

I'll be honest with you, I would still consider that underpowered.

 

[winddbourne]

I still think a bonus to extra culture and commerce in the capital city is the best option. Haven't seen any comments on it, but then it dropped into the middle of a forum already talking about other ideas.

The option provides the ability to crank out extra early units in your capital city, including settlers, and helps you to support your early "empire" more easilly. Plus you could put some of that extra commerce into espionage if you wanted, or into science.

 

[Angst]

I still think the best idea is to reduce Mantienance from Number of cities by, say, 10% or maybe even 15%.

 

[TrailblazingScot]

+100% Great General 'Emergence'
+50% Faster Settler Production
0 costs to maintain vassals.

That would be a nice and appropriate addition as Imperialism is all about making milking others for profit.


That said Imperialism isn't weak, especially as great generals can be generated very quickly if you double up the trait with the Great Wall and so you'll soon have super promo'ed units from your cities and later on lots ofcities where the cost of units is -50%.

 

[Watiggi]

+100% Great General 'Emergence'
+50% Faster Settler Production
0 costs to maintain vassals.

Maybe also make it more difficult for a capitulated vassal to get out of the masters grasp, ie, make it so that it needs 75% of masters land size or 75% of the masters population or needs to loose over 75% of it's land at capitulation in order to be able to break away.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Are you sure that's not too overpowered?

Thats rediculously overpowered. Theres a espionage slider, so we have to assume espionage is equal to Science and Culture in value. Who wouldn't play a civ that gave them +50% Culture, +100 Great general emergence and +50% Settler Production? Personally I think just +50% customs house and it will be perfect.

 

[Watiggi]

Thats rediculously overpowered. Theres a espionage slider, so we have to assume espionage is equal to Science and Culture in value. Who wouldn't play a civ that gave them +50% Culture, +100 Great general emergence and +50% Settler Production? Personally I think just +50% customs house and it will be perfect.

Except it'll be useless for lakes/pangae/great plains maps.

 

[homan1983]

Thats rediculously overpowered. Theres a espionage slider, so we have to assume espionage is equal to Science and Culture in value. Who wouldn't play a civ that gave them +50% Culture, +100 Great general emergence and +50% Settler Production? Personally I think just +50% customs house and it will be perfect.

I think he meant Great Spy point generation [kinda like GG point being double] not espionage spending.

 

[Pikkis]

My suggestion is 1/2 off Jails and perhaps the new customs house for Imperialistic.

I think this is a good suggestion, it's very imperialistic skill in its own way.

Lesser Upkeep from City Maintienance from number of cities (Like in Organized, just in another area)?

That is good, with low maintenance the Imperialistic civs don't need to creat colonies, keeping the cities in other continents under its control!

That wouldn't be as great bonus as said above, because main reason for getting rid of colonies isn't the number of cities maintenance, it's the distance to palace maintenance generated by the ocean between the motherland and its colonies.

However, I do have to point out that any trait that gives a lower cost for "number of cities" would be extremely powerful when combined with State Property which eliminates the cost for distance.

It wouldn't be extremely powerful, because State Property blocks your own corporations plus your enemies' corporations from working in your country.

I'd like to see 25% cheaper spy missions. That would be alot of fun.

That would be very powerful, even overpowered, if you make a lot of espionage missions.

I'm hoping for the Food+Hammers bonus, because that would mean expansive didn't get nerfed...just chop/whipping with expansive.

This may be the best way to make it better, though I think it could still have either Jail or Customs House double-speed bonus in addition to this without being overpowered.

 

[Phoenix1595]

+100% Great General 'Emergence'
+50% Faster Settler Production
0 costs to maintain vassals.

That would be a nice and appropriate addition as Imperialism is all about making milking others for profit.

I think this is perhaps more palatable than an espionage bonus, however I would be more inclined to a reduction in vassal maintainance costs rather than none (for balance issues). It would also make colonies more appealing, as some on this board find this new aspect to be less than beneficial to their playing style.

As an earlier poster said, it would be similar to Organized, but emphasizes Imperialism's ability to manage lands acquired not of their own, but through aggressive expansion.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

That wouldn't be as great bonus as said above, because main reason for getting rid of colonies isn't the number of cities maintenance, it's the distance to palace maintenance generated by the ocean between the motherland and its colonies.

No, in BTS there are 3 types of City Maintenance
1. Distance
2. Number of Cities
3. Overseas

3 is the reason to form Colonies
1 is a reason to build FPs /Get State Property

2 INCLUDES Vassals and Colonies

so if you have a lot of cities (Either as part of your empire OR vassals of some kind) #2 will be high.

so a low # of Cities Maintenance means you can be 'the master' of more cities one way or another.

In any case I Really hope they get the food/production bonus first, because that is something that doesn't act in a simple/ as expected manner.

 

[kniteowl]

No, in BTS there are 3 types of City Maintenance
1. Distance
2. Number of Cities
3. Overseas

3 is the reason to form Colonies
1 is a reason to build FPs /Get State Property

2 INCLUDES Vassals and Colonies

so if you have a lot of cities (Either as part of your empire OR vassals of some kind) #2 will be high.

so a low # of Cities Maintenance means you can be 'the master' of more cities one way or another.

In any case I Really hope they get the food/production bonus first, because that is something that doesn't act in a simple/ as expected manner.

Actually there's 4 types of Maintenance, if you include Corporations.

I's personally Have Stables and Airports, I Don't mind the Cheap Stables help the UU of most of the Imp Leaders, when you think about the cheap Barracks that help the Agg UUs. (Also increase the cost of the Mongol Ger)

I also like the Idea of improved Espionage though a bonus in points or a decrease in Spy missions.

 

[bonafide11]

I only build one or two stables. I would much prefer cheap jails and custom houses. I think it's more useful and makes more sense with Imperialist.

 

[Antilogic]

I'd like to wait to see what Firaxis does. They are already messing around with the Expansive trait, so we really don't know if they will change the Imperialistic trait as well.