Improving my map of Greece

[Kyriakos]

There are 250 something cities in my map Although most civs have only a few, there are 31 civs there after all

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Oh, yeah, right Well, still. I've done enough city lists for now... besides... someone needs to convert the names into Greek...

 

[Kyriakos]

What? Oh, i forgot to mention that i have some very urgent business to take care off, so for the next, uh, few months i wont be able to do this. Perhaps you could trick, i mean ask some other greek in the forums?

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Alright, I'll do it. Just give me the rules in translating the names. Of course, someone will have to check that I've put the most important cities at the top.

Edit: Is Kerkira Greek for Corcyra? If so, I can only give two cities for that civ...

 

[Gagliaudo]

IIRC, Kerkyra is Corcyra... cities?
mmhh, Kerkyra-city , Sybota, Epidamnos (struggled with Epeiros ) and some else I can't recall atm...

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Well, I've done more. All that is missing now is Kerkira...

Athens
Athens
Piraeus
Eleusis
Oropus
Brauron
Decelea
Thoricus
Rhamnus
Salamis
Aphidnae
Eleutherae
Araphen
Halae Aexonides
Psaphis
Phalerum
Punactum
Halinius
Thorae
Anaphlystus
Marathon
Phyle

Sparta
Sparta
Amyclae
Geronthrae
Pharis
Sellasia
Gythium
Asopus
Boeae
Belemina
Cardamyle
Oetylus
Zarax
Las
Prausiae
Epidamnus Limera
Therapne
Harplea
Bryseae
Aegine
Pellana
Kythera
Selinus
Caryae
Tyrus
Gerenia
Pephnos
Cyparissia
Side
Hippole
Croceae
Euinea
Pyrrhichus
Teuthrone
Cyphanta
Allagonia
Glympeis
Messa
Pephnos
Leuctrum
Acriae
Scandea

Dodecanese
Rhodes
Samos
Cos
Ialyssos
Symi
Kamiros
Kalydna
Lindhos
Ikaria
Halki
Karpathos
Leros
Kassos
Kalymnos
Agathusa
Potidaeo
Kretenia
Arkesia
Nisyros
Patmos
Brykous
Megisti

Iolcos
Iolcos
That is all the cities. If you want I could add the Magnesian cities to Iolcos, but Iolcos was a very unimportant city and, with the exception of Jason and the Argonauts, was rarely ever mentioned. In fact, it was only mentioned as a not of importance when the inhabitants of Iolcos, Pagasae, Pharae and other Phthiotian towns were forcibly relocated to the new city of Demetrias. Of course, none of those cities would make sense in an Iolkan civ.

Edit: Post 2000!

 

[Kyriakos]

Sadly there arent probably any complete rules, apart from these:
1) you can replace every C with a K.
2) Cities that end in -us ussually end in -os in greek. Pyrrhichus=Pyrrichos (i dont know that city btw) You already did that for Therapne and others etc.
3)Gythium is Gythion, and i think that all (maybe all?) -um endings in latin are -on endings in greek. eg Gordium=Gordion. HOWEVER i am not certain if this is always the case.
4)Also i ussually replace i with an e when it is an Heta, as in Thessalonike, same goes for Megiste etc. Clue: no word, name or other, ends in iota in greek, so all cities that end in -i end in -e if you want to signify that it is an heta, they all end in heta anyway.

also, as you know, those cities many times had more than 4 variations of the same name, plural, singular, masculine, feminine, dorian A, ionian E.

 

[MaisseArsouye]

Well, maybe we could merge Iolcos into Thessalia and place another civ in that area. What would your suggestions be ? Megara at last ? Akarnania ?

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

In Thessaly, the only possibility left is Magnesia. But they were not very important and have very few recorded leaders and so forth. Megara would be far too small (their cities will most likely have to be added onto the Corinthian city list) which leaves in the general region Akarnania, Locria and Phocis / Delphi. Take your pick.

@Varwnos: I have no way of telling if a place name has a heta in it or not. Which means that unless you are specific in going through and pointing each one out, they will remain as are. I'm guessing some of the Cycladic islands have hetas in them, so there are probably a lot of them in the middle of the word. I will of course replace all 'I's at the end of names with 'E's though.

 

[Kyriakos]

Also, apart from extreme cases, all -ae latin endings are -ai in greek. Patrae=Patrai etc. I would say all of them, with no exception. This doesnt mean that they end in iota, for ai is a double letter, that makes an "e" as in "end" sound, ie the same sound that the greek letter epsilon (E) makes.
Can you guess what the double letter ai is called? Yes, its just called alphaiota

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Oh great, more changes...

I've decided to leave -i endings as is. I realised now that it is completely horrible in some cases to change them. Philippi in the Macedonian list is all it took - I have never seen it as Philippe (which looks French).

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Here are the Graecified lists. Mycenae, Chersonesus, and Lydia are on the short side (I extended Ithaka by adding Zacynthus, Leukas and other Ionian Islands to the list). Kerkira and whatever civ you replace Iolkos with are all that is left.

Macedonia:
Pella
Vergina
Amphipolis
Philippi
Pydna
Philipopolis
Beroea
Kyrrhus
Methone
Thessalonika
Argos Orestikon
Europos
Almopia
Visaltia
Elimea
Therme
Herakleia
Argilos
Eion
Myrkinos
Arnissa
Serrhai
Kissos
Eordaia
Zerenia
Eratyra
Draviskos
Styberra
Vevi
Atalante
Kellai
Anthemos
Kreston
Bruanion
Kalindoea
Arethusa
Kellas
Vegora
Styberra
Orma
Phylakai
Euporia
Xilopolis
Sidos
Kalliteres
Phangres
Antigonia
Tyrissa
Terpyllos
Bromiskos
Apsalos
Sindos
Lete
Verge
Kalavia
Horma
Chalestri
Notia
Kerdylion
Oreskia
Gallepsos
Brukida
Heraklea Pegonia
Aiane
Hatera

Argos
Argos
Nemea
Nauplia
Kleonai
Troezen
Epidamnos
Hermione
Epidauros
Orneai
Methana
Lyrkea
Mases
Hieron Aiskulapu
Elaios
Asine
kelenderes
Lessa
Ilai
Kenchriai
Hysiai
Ephyra
Halika

Bithynia
Chalkedon
Nikaia
Astakos
Heraklea Pontika
Nikopolis
Kios
Daskyleion
Kalpe
Kyzikos
Bithynion
Pontika

Ionia
Ephesos
Prilene
Iassos
Erythrai
Teos
Kolophon
Apaia
Baryla
Lebedos
Notion
Lade
Myos

Aeolia
Pergamon
Smyrna
Phokaia
Klazomenai
Elaia
Gryneon
Attarnos
Kyme
Antandros
Adramyttion
Myrina
Karsrai

Lydia
Sardis
Magnesia
Silandos
Thyratira
Philadelphia

Karia
Halikarnassos
Mylassa
Tralles
Harpasa
Knidos
Alabanda
Bargylia
Nysa
Stratonikaia
Laodikaia
Aphrodisias
Kaunos
Syme

Troy
Troy
Abydos
Dardanos
Ismaros
Maronea
Kebren
Zone
Lampsakos
Xantheia
Skepsis
Parion
Assos
Priapos

Phrygia
Gordion
Ikonion
Ankyra
Kelenai
Pessinos
Archiraos
Sagalassos
Argiza
Apamea
Synada
Antiocheia
Kottaion
Gangra
Akroinon

Epiros
Dodona
Ambrakia
Ephyra
Phoenike
Passaron
Argos Amphilochikon
Argothea
Orestia
Panormos
Onchismos
Chimaira
Buthroton
Gitana
Pandosia
Chalandra
Toryne
Elatrim
Kranaia
Phylake
Helikranon
Kichyros
Oricon
Vouthroton
Idomene
Athenaion
Ilion
Argyros
Buchetion
Olpai
Tekmon
Elaia
Photike
Argithea
Elaios
Ompholion
Phanote
Kassope
Amandia
Euroea
Krenai
Nikopolis
Theodoria
Antigoneia
Hadrianopolis

Thrace
Byzantion
Odrysai
Serdika
Krenides
Kypselos
Messambreia
Phoruna
Maroneia
Kainoi
Neapolis
Buridava
Uskudama
Korpiloi
Stryme
Bisanthe
Skaptopara
Odessos
Sparata
Kabyle
Siritia
Koiletai
Oesyme
Lamphorynna
Sadama
Pautalia
Pistyros
Lysimacheia
Tylis
Siris
Usdesikoi
Athypara
Strimos
Dentheletai
Apsinthoi
Sapaioi
Bizye

Chersonesus
Sestos
Kardia
Elaius
Paktyra
Perinthos
Abdera
Ainos

Illyria
Skodra
Pharos
Epidamnos
Lissos
Dimale
Apollonia
Salona
Lynchnides
Skampa
Vegia
Oameos
Pelion
Narona
Zaton
Siskia
Klodiana
Hybrianes
Kandavia
Tergeste
Antipatria
Theranda
Stuberra
Peirustai
Parthinoi
Uskana
Taulantioi

Athens
Athenai
Piraios
Eleusis
Oropos
Brauron
Dekelea
Thorikos
Rhamnos
Salamis
Aphidnai
Eleutherai
Araphen
Halai Aixonides
Psaphis
Phaleron
Punakton
Halinios
Thorai
Anaphlystos
Marathon
Phyle

Sparta
Sparta
Amyklai
Geronthrai
Pharis
Sellasia
Gythion
Asopos
Boeai
Belemina
Kardamyle
Oetylos
Zarax
Las
Prausiai
Epidamnos Limera
Therapne
Harplea
Bryseai
Aigine
Pellana
Kythera
Selinus
Karyai
Tyros
Gerenia
Pephnos
Kyparissia
Side
Hippole
Krokeai
Euinea
Pyrrhichos
Teuthrone
Kyphanta
Allagonia
Glympeis
Messa
Pephnos
Leuktron
Akriai
Skandea

Dodecanese
Rhodes
Samos
Kos
Ialyssos
Symi
Kamiros
Kalydna
Lindhos
Ikaria
Halki
Karpathos
Leros
Kassos
Kalymnos
Agathusa
Potidaio
Kretenia
Arkesia
Nisyros
Patmos
Brykous
Megisti

Thebes / Boeotia
Thebai
Orchomenos
Plataia
Haliartus
Koponea
Tanagra
Delion
Leuktra
Thespiai
Chaironia
Anthedon
Lebadea
Kopan
Kreusis
Oenophyta
Thisbai
Siphai
Akraiphia
Chalia
Glisas
Aspledon
Eleon
Audis
Chorsiai
Hyle
Mykalessos

Thessaly
Larissa
Krannon
Mylai
Ithome
Aigimon
Phaloria
Trikka
Olooson
Gomphi
Skotussa
Pharsalos
Pythion
Kierion
Euhydrion
Atrax
Gyrton
Gonnos
Malloea
Kyretai
Phalanna
Phaika
Pireseai
Argura
Metropolis
Eritrion
Sykurion
Euryhydrion
Proerna
Pharkalon
Petinaion
Mopsion
Erikinion
Axoros
Doliche
Argura
Lapathos

Phthia
Phthia
Pherai
Pegasai
Pletion
Demetrias
Thaunmaii
Halos
Pteleon
Melitaia
Phylake
Antron
Alope
Pyrasos
Xyniai
Itanos

Aetolia
Kalydon
Pleuron
Eleaus
Pylene
Pamphia
Thestion
Agrinion
Aigition
Kallion
Oechalia
Aperantia
Trichonion
Kohope
Ithoria

Chalcidice
Olynthia
Potidaia
Stagira
Akanthus
Stratonikea
Apollonia Chalkidike
Singos
Mende
Sane
Skione
Torone
Kleonai
Charadros
Ainea
Sermyle
Kassandreia
Akrothoi
Thyssos
Theraminos
Spartalos
Skolos
Mekyberna
Gigonos
Skapsa
Aphytas
Gallepsos
Sarte
Olophyxos
Kapros

Corinth
Korinthos
Lechthaion
Peraia
Oenoe
Schoenos
Sidos
Krommyon
Senechreai
Solygea
Tenea
Megara
Aigosthena
Parai
Nisaia
Tripodiskos

Mycenae
Mykenai
Tyrins
Medea
Pylos

Euboea
Chalkis
Eritrea
Karystos
Oeros
Styra
Dion
Dystos
Marmarion
Athenai Diades
Porthmos
Aidepsos
Kyme
Orobiai
Tamynai
Kerinthos
Zaretha
Geraistos

Cyclades
Naxos
Delos
Melos
Thera
Syphnos
Iulos
Andros
Tenos
Kythnos
Syros
Arkesine
Aigiale
Paros
Minoa
Kimolos
Gaurion
Astipalaia
Mykonos
Poeessa
Karthaia
Antiparos
Seriphos
Sikinos
Koressos
Anaphi
Polyaigos
Polykandros
Ios
Gyaros
Oliaros
Rheneia
Ephyra
Prepesinthos
Lagussa
Ierakia

Ithaca
Ithaka
Same
Pronni
Kranii
Pale
Alkolmenai
Aigilips
Zakynthos
Krokylia
Leukos
Phara
Etlomenon
Taphos

Eliea
Elis
Pisa
Olympia
Lepreon
Pylos
Kyllene
Letrini
Ephyrai
Margalai
Phrixa
Heraklea
Lasion
Phea
Myrtanion
Samikon
Epitalion
Hyrmine
Skillos
Epion
Pyrgi

Messenia
Messene
Andania
Stemykluros
Kyparissiai
Methone
Thuria
Asine
Abia
Pharai
Ira
Korone
Oechalia
Dorion
Kolonides
Amphia
Limnai

Crete
Knossos
Gortyna
Tylissos
Lyttos
Hierapytna
Praisos
Kydonia
Dragmos
Polyrrhenia
Lato
Yrtakos
Fest
Elyros
Aptera
Oaxos
Raukos
Lappa
Eleuthernai
Lyktos
Araden
Eltyna
Malia
Hyrtacina
Iteia
Lykastos
Rhithymna
Itanus
Malla
Priansos
Phaistos
Zakros
Phalasarna
Gaudos
Viennos
Keraia
Orion
Lassaia
Aradaina
Oulous
Fallasarna
Sisaia
Itanos
Katri
Rethymnia
Rytio
Herronisos
Anopolis
Rokka
Istron
Dreros
Polychna
Arkades
Syvritos
Panormos
Apollonia
Siya
Modaioi
Ertaia
Aina
Matala
Eronos
Kissamos
Tarra
Arsinoe
Lissos
Allaria
Rezynia
Tanos

 

[Kyriakos]

Philippoi is written with the double oi, because it is plural

I would suggest, if you arent bored to do it, to change everything into -e, unless you have doubts, and i could provide help there. But if the name has "o" before the final iota then it is oi and doesnt need to change. But i realise that it is a bit boring, so do as you like

@ philipe

 

[Gagliaudo]

@varwnos: you beated me on time, I was posting about Philippoi... ...
But I add something else, dunno if it could interest:
during the years, some cities changed names...:
Crenides -> Philippoi (renamed by... guess who? )
Pagasai (Pagase?) -> Demetrias (and probably, earlier, Phtia ->Pagasai !!!)
Thermai (Therme?) -> Thessalonike

@MongoloidCow: good corrections. I'd write, IIRC
Olynthia -> Olynthos
Epidamnos: from Argolis to Epeiros (it's only similar to Epidauros )
Stemykluros -> Stenyklaros (Messenia)
Lechtaion (Korinthos) -> Lechaion
Zaretha (Euboia) -> Zarethra

others maybe will come, in the meanwhile I've a suggestion: put together in one civ Mikenai&Argos ... Peloponnesos will "breath" a little more, and it isn't so anti-historical... (Diomedes wasn't at same level of Agamemnon, for importance...).

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

The really ancient Greeks are interesting though. Unfortunately it makes things difficult for a couple of civs. And I'm not going over those lists again So boring... I'll try to get some more cities for the Anatolian civs, and when you decide Maisse Arsouye what to do about the last two civs, I'll do those city lists also, but I'm not touching those ones again so they are all yours Varwnos and Gagliaudo

Edit: Epidamnus from Argos to Epirus? The Argive city is Epidauros IIRC. I think I put Epidamnus in with the Illyrians (tough call, but Epirus had enough cities).

Edit2: Upon checking I realise Argos has both city names. I tried to remember city name repeats (there were originally a whole heap called Dium / Dion across Greece) so you'd better cross out the Argive Epidamnos when you go over it.

 

[Kyriakos]

Therme isnt 100% Thessalonike, although it was joined to it, but im not sure how much of itreally had survived in the time of Lucian, who wrote that Thessalonike was a very rich and prosperous city. (Lucian iirc is 1 century AD, or 1 century BC). The actual Thessalonike was founded by Cassandros, one of the epigons of Alexander, circa 300 BC, and although the first capital of his macedonian kingdom was Cassandria, in the chalkidike peninsula, (right, he also founded that) Thessalonike became the capital fast. Therme, ofcourse, was more ancient. Today a part of the city is called Therme, and archaeological work is being done there too, although it isnt certain if it is exactly in the same location as the old Therme, since this Therme isnt coastal.

 

[Gagliaudo]

@varwnos: Nobody could know about Thessalonika better than you

@MongoloidCow: man, you've already made a good job

 

[Kyriakos]

MC's list is just huge, i am unable to even read thought it
But i saw some stuff here and there, and:
*Araden-- This doesnt sound greek at all, i am almost certain that it couldnt have been clled that. Aradene at least, or Aradena. Troizen could exist with an en ending, possibly (although Troizena is the common form) but Araden sounds aramaic
*Stemycleros-- Do you mean Stenyklaros? I know that city as a medieval one. I dont remember if it had it in the pw scen, perhaps i did (i just saw that Gagliaudo mentioned it before)
*Agrinnion is written with a double n iirc
*you have a "Halai" somewhere, which should be (unless the word means something else, and then i dont know it, im not sure) Hallai, or Allai. Allai just means "other ones". So the Hallai would distinguish a city from another one which had the same name (note that i could have missed a different meaning of the word, but it isnt very likely, although im not that familiar with ancient words. However i looked a a dictionary of ancient words that i have and didnt find anything different)

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Re: Araden. It is on Crete. They had their own customs and so forth. The ancient Greeks never really knew what to expect there. It was called "Araden" quite clearly though.

Re: Stemykluros. I have never heard of it as an ancient city either. But this very good map I have of ancient Greece clearly states it was.

Re: Agrinion. I haven't seen this city as being spelt with two 'N's.

Re: Halai Axonides. It just came from the map mentioned above as being a coastal city southeast of Piraeus.

Someone else will have to fix eveything up though. That list makes me dizzy.

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

I found more Anatolian (and Chersonesan) cities...

Aeolia
Pergamon
Smyrna
Phokaia
Klazomenai
Elaia
Gryneon
Attarnos
Kyme
Antandros
Adramyttion
Myrina
Karsrai
Atarneos
Gambrion
Astyra
Mandrai

Bithynia
Chalkedon
Nikaia
Astakos
Heraklea Pontika
Nikopolis
Kios
Daskyleion
Kalpe
Kyzikos
Bithynion
Pontika
Prusa
Chrysopolis
Myrlea
Drepanon
Rheba
Tion
Dablea
Milia

Ionia
Miletos
Ephesos
Prilene
Iassos
Erythrai
Teos
Kolophon
Apaia
Baryla
Lebedos
Notion
Lade
Myos
Bargylia
Didyra

Caria
Halikarnassos
Mylassa
Tralles
Harpasa
Knidos
Alabanda
Bargylia
Nysa
Stratonikaia
Laodikaia
Aphrodisias
Kaunos
Syme
Kibyra
Myndas
Kalynda
Kaumos

Lydia
Sardis
Magnesia
Silandos
Thyratira
Philadelphia
Keramon
Hypaipa
Anaua
Hieropolis
Tripolis
Kollosai
Eumenia
Kibotos
Ipsos
Klanudda
Vymphaeon
Silandos

Troy
Troy
Abydos
Dardanos
Ismaros
Maronea
Kebren
Zone
Lampsakos
Xantheia
Skepsis
Parion
Assos
Priapos
Kebrene
Gargara
Perkote
Gergunthes
Rhoeteon
Achilleon
Sigeon
Ophrynion
Bateia

Phrygia
Gordion
Ikonion
Ankyra
Kelenai
Pessinos
Archiraos
Sagalassos
Argiza
Apamea
Synada
Antiocheia
Kottaion
Gangra
Akroinon

Thrace
Byzantion
Odrysai
Serdika
Krenides
Kypselos
Messambreia
Phoruna
Maroneia
Kainoi
Neapolis
Buridava
Uskudama
Korpiloi
Stryme
Bisanthe
Skaptopara
Odessos
Sparata
Kabyle
Siritia
Koiletai
Oesyme
Lamphorynna
Sadama
Pautalia
Pistyros
Tylis
Siris
Usdesikoi
Athypara
Strimos
Dentheletai
Apsinthoi
Sapaioi
Bizye

Chersonesus
Sestos
Kardia
Elaius
Paktyra
Lysimacheia
Madytos
Kalliupolis
Bisanthe
Perinthos
Abdera
Ainos

Mycenae
Mykenai
Tyrins
Medea
Pylos
Gerenia

I've also come up with a way of making the checking of the lists so incredibly dull... focus on a small group at a time. Therefore, start with the above, and try also to find Mycenaean cities