[GS] Inca Discussion Thread

[pgm123]

Which strikes me as running to stay still, much as Canada's special ability turns tundra into basic grassland. There's no net production boost - all you're getting from the Inca is a lot of food. Mountain tiles are very poor to work without at least two terrace farms nearby, which is going to be very difficult to pull off for multiple mountains especially since, as you noted, you'll want districts in the spots with the largest number of surrounding mountains. What's more mines both upgrade over time and provide adjacency bonuses to Industrial Zones.

Yeah, but the terrace farms work well with mountains. The difference with Canada is that you're turning a useless tile into a less useless one. With the Inca, you're getting a fairly useful terrace farm that becomes more useful with mountains next to them and mountain tiles that become more useful with terrace farms next to them. They work together. I don't really consider that comparable to Canada.

 

[Icicle]

The Qhapaq Ñan isn't a tunnel. You can see that it's just a stone arch, presumably marking some kind of mountain path.



It would have been nice to have included some kind of graphic for the path itself, but I can imagine that might be difficult.

What's the Inca word for "friend?" I feel like we may need it to use this passage under the mountain.

 

[Kaan Boztepe]

love that the incas are back. early population boost due to high food is always welcome in a snowbally game.
couple of questions that i did not see any answers to but hope someone will ask/answer them in the FL video
can every civilization use the tunnels once it is built? ( i mean walking down a tunnel cannot be specific to a civilization? )
can you built the tunnel anywhere on the map or does it need it to be on your land? if yes during war can the enemy use it or pillage it? after all it is not difficult to destroy tunnels after the invention of gunpowder)
and of course how long can you stretch a tunnel and how many charges are used if we try a tunnel 3-4 tiles long?
can we tunnel under natural wonders?

 

[NukeAJS]

I like that the Inca have several really difficult opportunity cost decisions ... should I build a great campus, holy site, or terrace farm (which would also improve the mountain tiles around it)?

It'll be a tough and interesting decision that they will have to make several times a game.

Also, and I'm sure someone said it already, I think their biggest advantage is unwritten -- a mountain bias start. That's gonna be very nice not just for yields, but for easy early-game golden ages.

 

[Cagarustus]

When I woke up this morning and watched the video in a semi-awaken state I thought to myself “what the hell does working mountain mean?” I then woke up and watched it again and understood.

Overall, not as assymetrical as I thought they would be but a solid design overall. It suits an isolationist style of play which I like, so I might play them first.

In any case I like the Inca historically and this is such a cool civ.

 

[Disgustipated]

can every civilization use the tunnels once it is built? ( i mean walking down a tunnel cannot be specific to a civilization? )

Unknown, but we should find out more in the livestream on Thursday. I'm assuming Yes.
can you built the tunnel anywhere on the map or does it need it to be on your land? if yes during war can the enemy use it or pillage it? after all it is not difficult to destroy tunnels after the invention of gunpowder)

In my picture on post #257 in this thread you can see both "portals" are outside the Incan territory. These cannot be pillaged per the game rules, even though it seems like you should be able to in reality.
and of course how long can you stretch a tunnel and how many charges are used if we try a tunnel 3-4 tiles long?

Not sure how long they can be yet. I would assume it's still 2 charges (one for entrance and one for exit).

can we tunnel under natural wonders?

Unknown. Keep in mind the Incan version is not a tunnel, but a mountain path.

 

[Cagarustus]

Actually, if you think about it, having citizens work mountain tiles which grant +2 production is actually quite good. If you’re in a cluster of 3 mountains that’s already +6 potential production, which is better than an industrial zone through most of the game. If you have so much population, you can work all these tiles without relying on districts and other improvements. I think it’s more powerful than what it seems initially.

 

[Disgustipated]

Actually, if you think about it, having citizens work mountain tiles which grant +2 production is actually quite good. If you’re in a cluster of 3 mountains that’s already +6 potential production, which is better than an industrial zone through most of the game. If you have so much population, you can work all these tiles without relying on districts and other improvements. I think it’s more powerful than what it seems initially.

Good point. Also keep in mind once you reach your housing cap, you are better off working those mountain tiles. The strat for me will be rapid growth to the cap, then switch to mountains.

 

[riddleofsteel]

My usual way of playing Civ is expand fast, conquer 1-2 civs, then snowball to victory (I've only played up to Immortal tho). Recently I've experimented with a "no conquering" rule, basically being an isolationist (if someone declares war on me I defend my territory with 3 archers successfully but don't conquer anything). I won King easily, and now I'm winning Emperor easily. I'm going to playtest being an isolationist on Immortal next. So in other words, I think you can win by being left alone.

Well, sure. But I figured it was implied in my statement that you would need to still excel at science, diplomacy, culture, etc. and we don't know if the Inca can easily do that yet.

 

[pgm123]

Well, sure. But I figured it was implied in my statement that you would need to still excel at science, diplomacy, culture, etc. and we don't know if the Inca can easily do that yet.

Mountain adjacency bias should help with science and religion, if you're willing to sacrifice the terrace spot. Production is really important for space race too.

 

[Cerilis]

Alternatively,
Being the hottest trend-setter of the Middle Ages (Eleanor), personally assembling the greatest scientists, philosophers, artists, and writers of her ages in one place (Kristina), and creating a second empire superior to her greedy brother's (Dido).

After all, Barbarossa isn't just the guy who drowned in a river.

 

[King William I]

After all, Barbarossa isn't just the guy who drowned in a river.

I like this game.

How's this? Trajan took a thriving empire and didn't screw it up....

 

[pgm123]

After all, Barbarossa isn't just the guy who drowned in a river.

And Harald Hardrada wasn't just the guy who lost the Battle of Stamford Bridge.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

After all, Barbarossa isn't just the guy who drowned in a river.

When you think about it, Kristina is like the Nick Fury of Renaissance intellectuals.

 

[Duuk]

You know, I don't want to wade into the "bias" and "quota" discussion too deeply...

But guys... it really is ok to just say "we have these civs because these countries all left their mark on history".

You know why Eleanor of Aquitaine is about to be a leader in a game? Because it's nearly a millennia after she died and WE KNOW WHO ELEANOR OF AQUITAINE WAS. We're literally arguing about if she was "significant enough" when you've all heard of her. That, by itself, means she was significant enough.

You know why European nations get a good chunk of the civs and leaders in civ games? THEY CONQUERED THE FLIPPIN WORLD FROM 1300 to 1945.

You know why China is a civ staple even though they DIDN'T conquer the world? BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN KNOWN TO THE WORLD FOR 3000 FRICKIN YEARS. The frickin ROMAN EMPIRE knew of the Chinese Empire and when Constaninople fell the Chinese were all like, "already?" and 500 years later when the Brits showed up the Chinese were like "oh hey you must be the new guys."

Stop arguing about who's significant enough to be in a history game. If Firaxis wants to dip into the mildly obscure pool for an expansion once in a while to keep it interesting WHO CARES, REALLY? Do you think that I was desperately waiting for the Cree to be included? Nope. I live on the Canadian border and I only want Canada to be included so I can conquer Toronto and rename it "Red Wings". Because I'm petty like that.

 

[Xmonger]

I was going to write a post to the effect "will surplus food really hype population growth", until I read up on how population grows exactly (which I didn't really understand).

As in previous games, the main population growth factor is Food. Each Citizen consumes 2 Food; any surplus Food is constantly gathered into a 'Food basket' which, when full, will increase city population by 1.
​

So now that means housing and amenities will be important to manage, and that this civ can really spam districts too. I think back to Ed's "1-2-3-4 Rule"

For each citizen you need

• 1 citizen for each housing
• 2 citizens for each amenities
• 3 citizens for each district
• 4 cities benefit from each amenity

So this seems like a civ balancing the 1-2-3-4 rule with a big food/citizen growth surplus, should be interesting. Maybe good for every win except domination.

 

[PhilBowles]

Yeah, but the terrace farms work well with mountains. The difference with Canada is that you're turning a useless tile into a less useless one.

Canada gives you a basic boost to tile yield on a useless tile, and the ability to place a farm. That's pretty much directly analogous to my mind - the farm is just in an adjacent tile rather than the same one, and the base production boost to the useless tile (+2 production to a 0 production tile) is better than +1 food to a 1 food, 0 production tile..

I think you're overestimating how frequently you'll have a nice string of mountain hills. Usually mountain chains have nearby hills, but not always and not in the sort of quantity that seems likely to make the farm/mountain combination reliably useful (oustide a starting city that will presumably have a mountain range bias). Often a terrace farm won't be much more than the ability to place a farm on a hill.

 

[Pietato]

Odd civ. Zero bonuses to science, gold or culture, other than what extra population brings (if you have the housing). Working mountains seems weak, and scales poorly, and your campus and holy site compete with terrace farms. Actually acquiring all the mountain tiles will also be a chore without culture or tile bonuses.

I think they need to rework the trade route bonus and make mountains scale better for the civ to work. Make the trade route give increased culture as well, and mountains increase production when mines do would make them awesome.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Stop arguing about who's significant enough to be in a history game. If Firaxis wants to dip into the mildly obscure pool for an expansion once in a while to keep it interesting WHO CARES, REALLY? Do you think that I was desperately waiting for the Cree to be included? Nope. I live on the Canadian border and I only want Canada to be included so I can conquer Toronto and rename it "Red Wings". Because I'm petty like that.

You could conquer Toronto since the base game.

 

[pgm123]

You know why China is a civ staple even though they DIDN'T conquer the world? BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN KNOWN TO THE WORLD FOR 3000 FRICKIN YEARS. The frickin ROMAN EMPIRE knew of the Chinese Empire and when Constaninople fell the Chinese were all like, "already?" and 500 years later when the Brits showed up the Chinese were like "oh hey you must be the new guys."

The Chinese also knew who the Romans were, which, when you think about it, is way more impressive.

Canada gives you a basic boost to tile yield on a useless tile, and the ability to place a farm. That's pretty much directly analogous to my mind - the farm is just in an adjacent tile rather than the same one, and the base production boost to the useless tile (+2 production to a 0 production tile) is better than +1 food to a 1 food, 0 production tile..

I think you're overestimating how frequently you'll have a nice string of mountain hills. Usually mountain chains have nearby hills, but not always and not in the sort of quantity that seems likely to make the farm/mountain combination reliably useful (oustide a starting city that will presumably have a mountain range bias). Often a terrace farm won't be much more than the ability to place a farm on a hill.

I expect the new map generation will help with it. But even if it's just the ability to place farms on hills, in most instances that's still better than Canada's bonus. I don't disagree that there are similarities in kind, but there's a big gap in quality. A 2 production mountain that gains bonuses when adjacent to your UI (that also gets bonuses from being next to a mountain)