[GS] Inca Discussion Thread

[Zaarin]

Which is hilarious because I seem to have no problem finding deserts with other civs . . .

Yes, I finally gave up and switched to another civ, and it seemed like half my starts had desert.

 

[Cuneiform]

Re watching the video, at about 01:06 when the Warak goes through the tunnel, it traverses the volcano to get there. That's a three tile move. I'm wondering if this means they have to coded to allow you to exit any portal that is on a contiguous mountain range- basically doing a BFS along mountain ranges and marking other tunnels as valid exit points- which would mean that on the map in the FL video you could teleport across inca land in like 3 Qhapac nans! (just building along the two end of a long snaky chain.)
Prepare for warp speed!

You need to re-watch it an additional time.

The Warak'ak doesn't actually go through the tunnel that the Builder creates. There is already a pre-existing tunnel to the south which traverses a single mountain square, this is the one he goes through.

 

[cvb]

I think it works like this:

Whow! What a brilliant photo - quite convincing! Just one question: for this "Orbital Insertion" thingy - do you need a civic like 'advanced wizardry' or something from the tech tree to activate that gate to the nano wormhole?? Btw, cf. to Erich von Däniken with respect to 'Pyramids & Nazca Lines' ...

I don't think so. As I understand it, units still can't be on mountain tiles. Moving onto a Qhapaq Ñan or a Mountain Tunnel teleports you to the other end at a cost of 2 movement points.

As I already wrote, I still believe mountain tiles are impassable for the Warak'Aq on foot (and the Qhapaq Ñan invisible to other civs). But I'm not so sure, if he uses a magic carpet (1st class llamas wool etc ).
With respect to the traveling distances, I think, there will be limitations, perhaps even to the effect, that entry & exit have to be adjacent (and built from different sides). Finally a mountain range isn't a sack in which you cut 2 holes for entry & exit as you see fit.


Edit:

There is already a pre-existing tunnel to the south which traverses a single mountain square

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Yes, I finally gave up and switched to another civ, and it seemed like half my starts had desert.

Yeah, I don't really restart because of "strong start" vs. "Weak Start." But if I'm playing with a civ that wants to use deserts for example, it might be that I--oh, I don't know--want to do stuff with the desert. Heh.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Yeah, I don't really restart because of "strong start" vs. "Weak Start." But if I'm playing with a civ that wants to use deserts for example, it might be that I--oh, I don't know--want to do stuff with the desert. Heh.

I've restarted a few times when I've played Peter and been nowhere near tundra.
Peter isn't particularly hampered by not starting near tundra, especially if he can get harvest or earth goddess, but it doesn't seem right building jungle cities with him.

 

[Sostratus]

There is already a pre-existing tunnel to the south which traverses a single mountain square, this is the one he goes through.

Can recon units cross rivers for 1MP? I thought they, like every other unit, could not. The only direct path is a river:

Of course, it's really hard to tell with this map because every tile has rivers everywhere and we don't know if the scout has the hills/woods promo. The rest of video has movement animations on, but in this shot the warak basically just teleports right to the barb camp instead of walking over the river first; hence I'm inclined to think he goes through that tunnel next to him.

 

[epiplexis]

This may have already been asked, but why show so explicitly the builder creating the qhapaq nan if not to show how travel between two "portals: works?

 

[cvb]

if I'm playing with a civ that wants to use deserts for example, it might be that I--oh, I don't know--want to do stuff with the desert. Heh.

I've restarted a few times when I've played Peter and been nowhere near tundra.

What about starting a game and then decide to play as whom?
It should be viable to "change" the civ after such a start via Lua script. At least i did that in civ4 via Python script (or was that even an older version??).

Of course, it's really hard to tell with this map

Indeed.
The new built Qhapaq Ñan to the right has no 3rd stone arc symbol towards the two volcanoes. I interpreted that as no viable direction. (not connected to the portal below)

What shall the dashed line between Warak'Aq & Goody Hut symbolize? His path?

why show so explicitly the builder creating the qhapaq nan

Teasing? The 2nd & 3rd Monday picture were also less explicit than possible ...

 

[AriochIV]

Can recon units cross rivers for 1MP? I thought they, like every other unit, could not. The only direct path is a river:
Of course, it's really hard to tell with this map because every tile has rivers everywhere and we don't know if the scout has the hills/woods promo. The rest of video has movement animations on, but in this shot the warak basically just teleports right to the barb camp instead of walking over the river first; hence I'm inclined to think he goes through that tunnel next to him.

It looks like in this screenshot, the Qhapaq Ñan only costs 1 movement rather than 2.

 

[Inhalaattori]

But Warakaq is not actually grossing a river. It seems in this case Warakaq goes inside the tunnel on his right side and then comes out from the tunnel below the cows. This is pretty clear when you look what other tiles he can move. I agree that the animation and move preview are very confusing.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Work on mountains, those mountains only provide +2 prod, +1 food from each nearby Terrace, seems not a good yield to be worked on. But maybe I'm wrong.

I think just the option of actually working mountain tiles is a plus in my opinion. This makes it to where it can be a good production Civ without having to build lots of mines and use those for terrace farms instead.

 

[cvb]

But Warakaq is not actually grossing a river. It seems in this case Warakaq goes inside the tunnel on his right side and then comes out from the tunnel below the cows. This is pretty clear when you look what other tiles he can move.

How is his path, tile by tile, to the silver(?) tile - right from the lower portal?

 

[Deggial]

Okay, that Qhapaq Ñan thingy.
This is, how I expect it to work:

1) player issues a movement order.
2) player moves the curser around and hoovers over the desired movement goal.
3) test, if the tile under the cursor is adjacent to a mountain with a Qhapaq Ñan (can be the same or another mountain). If 'true':
4) test if the unit currently stands adjacent to a mountain with a Qhapaq Ñan build.
5) test, if starting mountain and target mountain are part of a continuous mountain range.
6) test, if starting mountain and target mountain are within a distance of 2 tiles.
7) If 4)-6) are all 'true', mark the target tile with a yellow, spiked circle and flag it as a valid movement goal.
8) move the unit to this tile, if the player confirms the order. Subtract 2 movement points from the unit.

The question is: does a builder create an entry on all accessible sides of a mountain when he creates a Qhapaq Ñan or only at one side (the side he currently stands when creating it)?
- The mountain closer to the picture's bottom has three entries, which indicates the former.
- There is also the one icon hovering over the whole mountain which indicates that all adjacent tiles are valid entry/exit points for the movement without direction discrimination.

Consequences:
- this mechanic allows very flexible and easy to understand movement. With one "entry mountain", multiple exits are valid targets (if a Qhapaq Ñan was build). There is no confusing criss-cross of multiple separate pathways.
- the maximal movement distance is 4 tiles! Personally, I would have preferred 3 tiles (starting and ending mountain would had have to be adjacent), but the picture indicates otherwise.
- the Qhapaq Ñan mountain pathes act more like airports then roads (with the "airport tile" itself not accessible).
- I am curious, if exactly the same mechanic will be used for tunnels. Somehow, I doubt it, as it wouldn't make much sense. A tunnel should have one well defined entry and one exit.

 

[Sostratus]

does a builder create an entry on all accessible sides of a mountain when he creates a Qhapaq Ñan or only at one side

Based on the two Qapacs, I think graphically they put a stone arch/tunnel entrance facing every land hex a unit could enter/exit from that isn't across a river (or maybe they have a restriction so you don't get weird 6 arches depicted around mountain). The map icon shows the qapac symbol above the peaks of those two mountains- the qapac is probably attached to the whole tile itself. A one tile thick mountain range could probably be crossed by building just one tunnel/qapac. Its much easier to code that way.

Edit: I'm starting to think they have it set up to display 3 arches in a triangle, unless there's only mountains on that edge. The lower Qapac only shows three but it could show more, the upper qapac looks like it's showing the same arch layout.

How is his path, tile by tile, to the silver(?) tile - right from the lower portal?

I think when you "exit" it's kind of like flying to an aerodrome- it just drops you in the tile instead of computing crossing into it. I wonder if Qapac/tunnels also serve as road/rail hook up points.

 

[Seek]

It's a little concerning that trade routes ignore the Qapacs (1:22 and 1:30) and go around the mountains - aren't they supposed to affect the "efficiency" of the TR and increase the yields?

 

[cvb]

Edit: I'm starting to think they have it set up to display 3 arches in a triangle, unless there's only mountains on that edge. The lower Qapac only shows three but it could show more, the upper qapac looks like it's showing the same arch layout.

Yes, I suppose too, that 1 arch is displayed for this pair of tiles towards it stands inbetween. ("The new built Qhapaq Ñan to the right has no 3rd stone arc symbol towards the two volcanoes. I interpreted that as no valid direction. (not connected to the portal below)")

I think when you "exit" it's kind of like flying to an aerodrome- it just drops you in the tile instead of computing crossing into it. I wonder if Qapac/tunnels also serve as road/rail hook up points.

The river crossing is ignored? Oh well.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

It's a little concerning that trade routes ignore the Qapacs (1:22 and 1:30) and go around the mountains - aren't they supposed to affect the "efficiency" of the TR and increase the yields?

I noticed that too. I think they said that about tunnels. It's not clear if that also applies to Qhapaq Nans. I will be disappointed though if Trade Routes fail to utilize both in the release build.

 

[Sostratus]

I will be disappointed though if Trade Routes fail to utilize both in the release build.

Could be an oversight, could have been unfinished when they recorded the FL. Since railroads count for TR bonus but roads don't it wouldn't really bring you more gold. It's also possible when they included it, they felt it really hurt the incan ability to establish roads in their own empire if traders were just tunneling everywhere.

 

[bite]

I noticed that too. I think they said that about tunnels. It's not clear if that also applies to Qhapaq Nans. I will be disappointed though if Trade Routes fail to utilize both in the release build.

indeed, but also remember this is not the final build, and the videos tend to be made a lot earlier, so it might be a feature that was just not implemented yet

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

It's a little concerning that trade routes ignore the Qapacs (1:22 and 1:30) and go around the mountains - aren't they supposed to affect the "efficiency" of the TR and increase the yields?

It's because the traders are still using camels and not llamas.