Incest

[Syterion]

I have a question for people about incest. If you support gay marriage, why not support incest? Both are two people who love each other. So if gays and lesbians are accepted, why isn't incest?

Of course I am not comparing gays and lesbians to incest.(Or not trying to) And personally I think incest is wrong, and I'm fine with gays and lesbians. But I don't see how incest differs from other relationships besides being from the same family. The only problem, I see, is the genetic defects that can happen form inbreeding. But if the two people are in love and want to consummate their relationships, why is that bad?

Obviously this thread will result in a lot of angry posts. Please note I am not trying to be offensive. I am just trying to see what you people on this matter. If someone could explain to me whay incest is so terrible compared to other relationships, I would be happy.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Incest isn't, in most of case, about "two people loving each other". It's in 99% of the case a father abusing of his child. Sorry, but no, that's not acceptable and that has no link at all with relations between two consenting adults.

Another thread to put in trash.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Easy!

Incest is a choice; homosexuality is an orientation. If incest is made legal, you won't have people "coming out of the closet". There is no population of "naturally incestual people" in any country on Earth. Instead, you'll have people CHOOSING incest. Why shouldn't we allow it? Because incest leads to some pretty wacked-out stuff genetically. Does homosexuality mess with the gene pool or produce monster babies? Didn't think so.

Homosexuality is an abnormality, incest is an aberration.

 

[Syterion]

Incest isn't, in most of case, about "two people loving each other". It's in 99% of the case a father abusing of his child. Sorry, but no, that's not acceptable and that has no link at all with relations between two consenting adults.

That's child molestation. What if it is two consenting adults who happen to be related(For example, two cousins of similar age)? Rare, but what do you think if that was the case?

 

[Speedo]

Originally posted by Marla_Singer
Incest isn't, in most of case, about "two people loving each other". It's in 99% of the case a father abusing of his child. Sorry, but no, that's not acceptable and that has no link at all with relations between two consenting adults.

Why is ok to generalize that incest is always "father's abusing their children" (mothers can't do it?) but not ok to generalize that gays are sick people who like screwing each other in the whohah?

 

[Mrogreturns]

Just for the sake of Devil's advocacy- how about incest between people of the same sex?

 

[Speedo]

Incest is a choice; homosexuality is an orientation.

Ah, but if you're talking about love, how do you plan to prove anything? You can't prove that those lesbians married in SF yesterday love each other. I can't prove that the little old man & woman married for 50 yrs *really* love each other. If two people who happen to be related come forward and proclaim that they're in love and it's not their fault that they love who they do, then who do you plan to prove them wrong?

 

[Marla_Singer]

Originally posted by Speedo
Why is ok to generalize that incest is always "father's abusing their children" (mothers can't do it?) but not ok to generalize that gays are sick people who like screwing each other in the whohah?

Well, it's easy Speedo. Sick people who like screwing each other in the whohah harms no one. Instead, they spend a nice time. When you're an abused child, you don't spend a nice time. You've got the difference ?

The border between Incest and pedophillia is too blurry to tolerate it. And anyway, if it's not about pedophillia, no one will complain to the Police so I don't see the point.

 

[Syterion]

He wasn't asking the difference. He was asking about your generalizations and your justifications for them.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Ah, but if you're talking about love, how do you plan to prove anything? You can't prove that those lesbians married in SF yesterday love each other. I can't prove that the little old man & woman married for 50 yrs *really* love each other. If two people who happen to be related come forward and proclaim that they're in love and it's not their fault that they love who they do, then who do you plan to prove them wrong?

I'm not talking about love, I'm talking about biology. 90% of people are biologically wired so that they like the opposite sex. 10% is wired so that they like people of the same sex.

Absolutely 0% are wired so that they like their cousin Billy-Sue [or Billy-Bob, as the case may be].

If you're still not convinced, we can argue from the concept of benefits/detriments. Incest messes with the gene pool; homosexuality is harmless.

 

[anarchywrksbest]

It's genetically messy but it makes an interesting storyline, like in Eastenders at the moment. I think they've got 2 running.

 

[Speedo]

Absolutely 0% are wired so that they like their cousin Billy-Sue [or Billy-Bob, as the case may be].

So you're saying that it's impossible for people who are related to love each other in a sexual/marriage type way?

Well, it's easy Speedo. Sick people who like screwing each other in the whohah harms no one. Instead, they spend a nice time. When you're an abused child, you don't spend a nice time. You've got the difference ?

Nice attempt to deflect the question, but I still await your answer.

Why is ok to generalize that all incest is child abuse (you know very well that it isn't), but not ok to make similar generalizations about gays?

 

[Shadylookin]

Originally posted by Marla_Singer
Well, it's easy Speedo. Sick people who like screwing each other in the whohah harms no one. Instead, they spend a nice time. When you're an abused child, you don't spend a nice time. You've got the difference ?

The border between Incest and pedophillia is too blurry to tolerate it. And anyway, if it's not about pedophillia, no one will complain to the Police so I don't see the point.

the line is pretty seeable too me, if a father/mother/any other adult has sex with a kid that's pedophilia. If 2 consenting adults that are related have sex that's incest. yes when an adult does it with a child he is related too it's incest, but it's like saying all gays are pedaphiles because some happen to have sex with children(the exception is not the rule kinda thing). I personally find incest sickening(I don't really like thought of being gay either for that matter) but it's comparing apples to oranges screwing your sister is a choice you could go outside the family tree for your intimate relationships quite easily, while homosexuality may/may not be a choice(i can't really tell seeing as i haven't had any experience so whatever you believe don't chop off my head for it) and their kids don't suffer the dangers of imbreeding.

 

[WillJ]

Originally posted by Pontiuth Pilate
Ah, but if you're talking about love, how do you plan to prove anything? You can't prove that those lesbians married in SF yesterday love each other. I can't prove that the little old man & woman married for 50 yrs *really* love each other. If two people who happen to be related come forward and proclaim that they're in love and it's not their fault that they love who they do, then who do you plan to prove them wrong?

I'm not talking about love, I'm talking about biology. 90% of people are biologically wired so that they like the opposite sex. 10% is wired so that they like people of the same sex.

Absolutely 0% are wired so that they like their cousin Billy-Sue [or Billy-Bob, as the case may be].

I don't think that's perfectly true. Liking your cousing Billy-Sue is no fundamentally different than liking anyone else, and do you mean to tell me that whether or not you "like" someone is a consious choice? Heck no. Most people who commit incest, if I'm not mistaken, have the same urge to do so as we all have urges to undergo "normal" sex. Of course, you can control your urges toward one person better than you can control your urges toward one gender, but that's beside the point. But more importantly:

Originally posted by Pontiuth Pilate
If you're still not convinced, we can argue from the concept of benefits/detriments. Incest messes with the gene pool; homosexuality is harmless.

Correct.

Edit:

Originally posted by Syterion
The only problem, I see, is the genetic defects that can happen form inbreeding. But if the two people are in love and want to consummate their relationships, why is that bad?

Seems to me like you already know the answer.

Edit2: Crap, I accidentally voted "yes" when I meant to vote "no."

 

[slothman]

Assuming that it isn't rape incest isn't completely bad. The only detriment would be bad genes. And even that isn't completely true. There was an article in one of my science magazines about a banker who tried to get incest within his family. Lots of relatives did it but the family, who is still around now, isn't horribly messed up. It also talked about gene combinations such as large mouth but small jaw. If the large mouth/large law family didn't interbreed then they might get a small jaw would could be bad if they still had large mouths.
Now many incests probably are rape-like but the ones that aren't are ok in my book.

 

[andrewgprv]

The job of a parent is to be of use to a child and not to use the child for personal satisfaction.

I believe that psychologically it is harmfull for any parent to have sexual relationships with their children.

Ask any phycologist and he can state many reasons as to why incest is harmfull to ones self development. However most phycologists agree that homosexuality is not.

This of course is a valid and very good question, where does society draw the line? This is never an easy question to answer. Just like communism and laiz a faire are two extremes that are harmfull to society so is Authoritarianism and unchecked liberty. I would challenege those that compare homosexuality to things like incest and beastiality to show how homosexuality is harmfull to the individual or the society. It is my experience that homosexuality is not harmfull, but the denial of it is.

Do I think Incest is wrong, yes. Do I think that it should be illegal between consenting adults? Well I'm not so sure about that one.

 

[capslock]

Originally posted by Pontiuth Pilate
If you're still not convinced, we can argue from the concept of benefits/detriments. Incest messes with the gene pool; homosexuality is harmless.

If messing with the gene pool is the reason we outlaw incest, then that opens the door to outlawing many other kinds of gene pool messing with relationships, like two stupid people. Then you won't be able to have kids.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

The surgeon general does not not OUTLAW drinking while pregnant but he strongly recommends against it, right?

If two related people want to have sex that's their problem and they have to deal with the consequences of their folly, but there's no reason why their marriage should be sanctioned by the government. That would be equivalent in my eyes to offering a tax cut for drinking while pregnant.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

If messing with the gene pool is the reason we outlaw incest, then that opens the door to outlaw many other kinds of gene pool messing with relationships, like two stupid people. Then you won't be able to have kids.


We don't outlaw incest, we outlaw incestuous marriage. Bedroom laws are a feature of the puritan and Southern states - their days are numbered.

IMHO any marriage which is GUARANTEED to result in genetic defects should NOT be sanctioned by the government! What could be more common-sensical? So far, that covers incest. I don't see how it covers anything else.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Originally posted by Speedo
Nice attempt to deflect the question, but I still await your answer.

Gah ?
Is this one of the 38 things of Col ? I've answered your question !

Ok let's go ! Here was your question :

Originally posted by Speedo
Why is ok to generalize that incest is always "father's abusing their children" (mothers can't do it?) but not ok to generalize that gays are sick people who like screwing each other in the whohah?

Logical answer :

Originally posted by Marla_Singer
Well, it's easy Speedo. Sick people who like screwing each other in the whohah harms no one. Instead, they spend a nice time. When you're an abused child, you don't spend a nice time. You've got the difference ?

The border between Incest and pedophillia is too blurry to tolerate it. And anyway, if it's not about pedophillia, no one will complain to the Police so I don't see the point.

How can you dare say I didn't answer your question !