IndieStone D.U.C.K.S mod

Another thing we're talking about doing, this would be quite a massive shift from the core Civ 5 gameplay so may do it in another mod, but to save on making new threads left and right I'll post it here.

Sprawling City Building Mod - Needs a better name

This system changes how cities work dramatically.

When you build a city, you're effectively just setting down a single town tile that's only a small part of your eventual city. You can draft workers from the population (up to a maximum of say 2/3) to work the lands around your city centre, as before.

The amount of buildings you can build in a city centre (the tile you built the city on) is cut down dramatically, with the ultimate aim that ALL traditional building / wonder construction will be removed from the game entirely.

Its replacement? Your workers can build buildings and wonders on the tiles surrounding the city just as they currently build improvements.

Improvements will be changed to have a radius effect (made visible in-game somehow) if worked by population, and the distance from the city centre that population can work is increased dramatically. Farms will provide food for a radius around the tile, barracks can build military units, wonders are built on the tile they appear on and may have an area affect etc.

Workers, when building an improvement, building or wonder, will build at a rate of the amount of production available in the yields surrounding the worker's construction site (worked or unworked, though perhaps worked tiles would provide a bonus since the workers would not need to obtain those materials themselves). Barracks and other production buildings will build at a rate based on the production in their vicinity also.

Buildings will get a severe penalty to production/effectiveness if they are not within the range of a free farm or other food source, or alternatively a trade route to get supplies from the nearest city.

This will change war dramatically, as the ability to pillage will make an attacking force all the more dangerous. Even wonders are not immune to pillaging, though pillaging will take sufficient time so as it can be stopped and reversed.

Walls will be redesigned to use the 'great wall' code to be created by workers (not sure of how this would work, but the hope is to allow players to create their own walls tile by tile) to give a huge defensive bonus to those behind it.

Air units would be built using an airport, sea units from a dock. Basically we're taking the cities out of the one tile and sprawling them over the landscape, giving the player infinitely more strategy in how their cities are built.

Another one for the DLL SDK I'm afraid. We'll probably co-develop this one separately (jumping between them as and when we get bored / frustrated with the other;)) but integrate religion etc into this version at a later date, tailored to this version of the game.

Thoughts / suggestions? :)
 
Just a question. With the number of buildings in the game, won't there be an exentual problem of having more buildings than actual hexes?
 
Yup. Improvements will be made more powerful, so one farm or one trading post will do a lot more than in the base game and therefore it will free up hexes for buildings, also consider if they have an additional city radius size... Either way half the point is that you would be having to pick and choose what to put in the tiles in your city radiuses since every building takes up a slot.

Also really, when it comes down to it, it's debatable whether it makes sense for EVERY building, that was just a blaze statement it could well be banks and markets and things may not be suited to this and can be built in-city.

We'll see how it goes though, a lot of design work to do to get it right. :)
 
suggestion: buildings could be upgradeable... in tiers...like:
market upgrading to bank to stock exchange,
monument to temple to cathedral,
etc...

this way you can do with fewer tiles...
 
Nice idea. :) we were also thinking of using the existing building system for some kind of 'extension' system. Since say a fortress would be actually a city with a fixed population and a different build list, you could build defensive buildings to add extra defences, or extensions to the armoury to allow for more advanced troops.
 
Some very ambitious ideas here! This is definitely a mod i will be keeping my eye on in the future. I LOVE your ideas for a religion system. One of my main gripes about the religion system in Civ IV was the lack of differences between being a christian civ and a buddhist civ, etc. You've gotten me extremely excited about playing a more realistic Civ V now!
 
Nice religion system, making a enterely new religion in this way ia very nice,expecially in in (real) game time! Congratz!
 
Spoiler :
Hello all, just announcing our first mod which will be out *at some point*. We'll post any information on the development of the mod here. Any suggestions, discussion and feedback welcome. :)


Written, designed, coded and arted by some combination of CaptainBinky and lemmy101.

The purpose of this mod is a continuation / rewrite of the Civ 4 Indie Stone Gameplay Mechanics, and its goal is to provide deep and interesting new gameplay mechanics which we hope to make fit as much as possible within the ethos of Civ V's design and feel like natural extensions to the base game.

New Leaderheads

Between 'one' and 'some' new Leaders! (undetermined amount depending on how difficult it proves to be to get them in-game once Nexus is repaired)



WIP Alfred the Great - Anglo Saxon / Alternate England Leader

More later!

Religion System

A brand new, from the ground up Religion System designed for Civ 5 and to fit within the Civ 5 gameplay. It will replace the piety social policy branch as the representation of religion in the game, with a new policy branch built around the advisor system (see second post) instead of the Piety branch.

This system will be quite different from Civ 4's religion system, as it will allow players to create, name and define their own religion based on a tree (well two, really) very similar to the technology tree in the current game.

A new type of yield will be introduced called piety which is accumulated by certain buildings, wonders and specialists in your cities. Monuments, temples and various other buildings and wonders will generate piety, which will fill up in the same way as culture does for social policies.

Polytheism

When it hits the threshold for the first time, you will be introduced to the Polytheism tree.


(Click for full size. Note this is WIP and not a complete tree, it is likely to change massively before release)

This is where the leader can then work their way through a wide tree representing different gods their culture worships, from worshipping a Sun God, The Creator, the Fertility Goddess, the God of War, or Lord of the Underworld, and numerous others. Each god you choose will give you a bonus (note we're not necessarily implying whether worshipping gods would have any real world effect, it would possibly just be the effect of a culture revering and becoming more adept at the relevant things that they worshipped. For example a culture built around worshopping a water god would likely be more adept at sailing or fishing.) and each god can be further specialised with branches following off them.

Also the player will be given the opportunity to name their religion, and even the names of the Gods they worship, if they so wish.

Note a key factor here is that the player is forced to spend those piety points, he has no choice. This plays a huge part later.

The player then progresses, choosing as many of the gods as they wish to. They could stay with a Polytheism for the rest of the game if they wish, but at some point they can decide to adopt a Monotheism.

Monotheism

Travelling down the tree is in most cases further refining one particular god. Once you hit the bottom of the Polytheism tree, you will unlock 'Declare X to be the one true God!', by which you can turn into a Monotheism. At this point the path you chose through the tree will be picked as your Monotheistic God, and you will lose the bonuses from all other branches down the tree you have unlocked. This means that most players who prefer to play with a Monotheism would be likely to bee-line one god to get to it.

At this point you unlock the Monotheism tree:


(Click for full size. The first section (or 'age') of the Monotheism tree. Note again this is WIP and not a complete tree, it is likely to change massively before release)

Here you will be able to travel down various paths to further tailor your religion toward war, philosophy or culture, by selecting the different 'doctrine' on the tree. Sometimes paths will be unlocked with techs, and as you go down, at the end of each 'age' or 'section' of the tree you will hit chokepoints, the first of which (seen in the above screenshot) the 'Divine Scripture' doctrine. This is the point that your holy texts are scribed, and at this point you get a 100% boost to your piety output Civ wide, and as well as this the entire section above is permanently locked off, allowing you to unlock no additional branches.

Each of the ages of the religion ends with a similar chokepoint, which both multiplies your piety production and locks off the preceding section from being explored any more.

The further down the tree you get, the more powerful the effects are, but with the later ages come more restrictive and potentially dangerous doctrine.

With the discovery of Scientific Method, this unlocks a new technology to research called The Enlightenment.

Age of Enlightenment

This is a dead-end tech that provides a unique effect. It's effect means that you are no longer REQUIRED to spend your piety points on advancing down the Monotheism tree (or Polytheism if you stayed there and by some chance you've not filled it by now) this simulates the rationalisation and moderation of religion, along with secularism. The player can then choose exactly when and how far to advance down the tree. This tech will also unlock the Rationalism social policy branch, and is now the only way to obtain it. This makes The Enlightenment tech, while not required, instrumental to scientific progress in your Civ.

An important aspect of The Enlightenment tech is its cost is proportionate to the number of piety points you have accumulated. If you have been modest with temples, and therefore you are only generating a small number of piety points per turn, then the cost of The Enlightenment will be cheap. If however, you have focused heavily on piety through the entire game so you could get the more powerful effects earlier, not helped by all the piety multiplying choke points following each age, the cost of the tech will continue to rise so much that after a certain tipping point it may become literally impossible to research with your current science levels, since its cost is rising faster than you research. At this point a piety heavy Civ will need to build various buildings in their cities to help stem the flow of piety to make the tech researchable.

Fundamentalism

The thing is though that the Monotheism tree starts to become more fundamentalist as you start continuing down the tree, and while you are forced to spend your points, you will continue down the tree whether you want to or not, with the religious leaders having more and more power over governmental affairs. Later down the tree you may even find yourself being forced to declare permanent war on another Civ with a different religion, or certain luxuries being banned, researching of specific techs slowed dramatically, and various other negative effects that get more extreme the further down the tree you go.

Depending on your focus in the game and victory conditions you're going for, this route may be desirable, but it will be very difficult to win a science victory without the investment in The Enlightenment tech.

Missionaries & Religion Spreading

Spreading religion will not be present in version 1. Version 1 will establish the system on a Civ by Civ basis, with each having their own religion. We will then look into adding spreading and adopting of religions, and have some pretty funky ideas of how to handle that, such as allowing religions to splinter and for two Civs to develop offshoot religions from the same origins, better representing the emergence of several distinct world religions sharing the same holy lands and texts. This leads us comfortably (or uncomfortably) into the complications that can arise from two opposing religions having the same Holy City. Other changes to Civ 4's design will be that each citizen of a city will have a faith instead of them being city wide, and missionaries will work more like workers, and will be persistent, taking X turns to convert a citizen at the target city.

Please note that the progression of religion has been designed to explore all the themes of religion, negative and positive, whether the mechanics are realisticly representing how these themes come about or not, and we're not making any statement or judgement on any real world religions, so please no offence is meant. We've stayed away from representing real world religions, giving players the choice as it means we can have more variety and depth hopefully without offending anyone.

More details coming soon!

HURRY UP DLL SDK!

;)

Thanks!

lemmy101 & CaptainBinky

Very nice. Though lacking the detail & sophistication of your Mod-it bears at least some similarity to what my own Civ4 mod will eventually look like. Namely I've tried to greatly expand the "Pagan" element of the early game, & have it as a real alternative if you're unlucky enough not to get one of the 7 main religions, whilst also using Polytheism as the primary way in which you can-eventually-found a religion. I also plan to expand the Civics system so you can have greater control over what defines your religion-in terms of its Central Dogma, its Secularism, its Strictness & its Tolerance. I definitely wish you the best of luck in this endeavor!

Aussie.
 
lemmy, you haven't had an idea yet that I haven't liked. The religion system is both genius and wit combined. And the new building system is exactly what I've been looking for since Civ4 modding first started. Please oh please, REAL WALLS that I can build plot by plot. The Great Wall of Warlords was a terribly deceptive trick when looking at the game box.
 
how about calling the city changes Urban Planning Revisited (UPR), or the Revisioned Urban Planning (RUP), or even Newly Envisioned Redesign of Features (NERF)? :p

looking forward to the religion stuff, I'm not really fond of the social policies :)
 
Wow huge fan. Can't wait until this comes online
 
Think the religion idea sounds awesome. One question - how would replacing the piety branch with the religion affect the sp tree in culture victory
 
Ah so to win a culture victory (assuming piety was one of the policies you were going for) you would have to have proceeded a fair way down the religion tree. Makes sense really :)

I like the idea of negatives coming about as it gets out of hand, would be cool to see your civ collapse cos you messed up your religion
 
Yeah, pretty much. The fact that all the religious buildings you would need to pump out culture points would also be pumping out piety points would mean you'd be forced you down the religion trees until you had researched the Enlightenment. Which can all get out of hand if you're not careful, as you said. :)
 
For the monotheism path, will it be unique to a particular god or would there be one path to take, regardless of which god you chose? For example, will the sun god have the same monotheism path as the god of the underworld?
 
In-game screenshot of the DUCKS religion mod!




(Click for full size.)
Polytheism Tree


Other screenshots:








Since fonticons are currently uneditable we're using the city state icon for the piety icon.

The Piety system is in, as is the tree system (All doctrine are defined in XML so will be fully moddable) as is unlocking the new doctrine. We only have the polytheism tree in and working so far, and have only a few effects on the doctrine, but the core system is there and working 100%.
 
Top Bottom