Binky I'd like to know does this mod mean that every civilization will have different religion???? I am asking this because every civilization can have monuments and piety points which can be used for creating religion, so am I right in this point?
IndieStone D.U.C.K.S mod
- Thread starter lemmy101
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lemmy101
Emperor
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Is it ok if I steal this system for my own purposes some time after you publish?
Of course.
T'is what modding is all about. We'd probably appreciate a while of it being exclusively DUCKS though first obviously. 
And if so, how modular will it be when having different policy trees and pages?
Totally. No techs / doctrine / policy trees are referenced in the Lua, it's all in XML. Even the definition of the Polytheism / Monotheism change over is XML driven, meaning a mod could have three trees if they wished (with the 'special event' nodes like switching to Mono having an equivalent boolean like the 'Repeat' tag for Tech, as will the Enlightenment tech to say it's proportionate cost to piety.
CaptainBinky
Warlord
Every Civ could have its own religion yes, but in practise lesser religions will get swamped by larger religions and multi-civ religions will split into multiple sub-religions (all of which will share the same Holy City).
lemmy101
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yeah, if a player goes the religion route, going for temples early, then chances are their religion will be one of the main world religions as it will always have a lead on the others who went for Bronze Working and down the military tree. It will spread to other civs and it will likely be better and more developed than their own, so they will choose to adopt it. There's less of a stigma for doing so in this game, it's expected to happen a lot more.
If another player adopts a religion, then they don't get to choose the new doctrine, the owner of the religion does. However, we're going to add great prophets back into the game (and priest specialists) so a Civ can splinter off the religion if they use a great prophet. At this point they can choose you own route in the tree, and can also modify the name, so you end up with the equivalent of Judaism, Catholic, Protestant, Church of England, Orthadox (or Shi'a / Sunni) kind of situation where most of the world religions are variations on the same sources, have the same holy cities and the same holy books but slightly different ideologies and views, sometimes at bitter odds with each other..
Wars over holy cities are going to be a common element to games of our mod, since a lot of the doctrine affect the holy city. Also it's not as clear cut who you want to adopt your religion. Supposing you go for religion purely for a culture win, have a whole bunch of doctrine that give you huge bonuses to culture in your holy city, and then you notice your religion spread into Mongolian territory and Genghis Khan announces with pride that he's become a Superian faithful. :| you know he's going to want that holy city off you at some point for all those juicy effects.
If another player adopts a religion, then they don't get to choose the new doctrine, the owner of the religion does. However, we're going to add great prophets back into the game (and priest specialists) so a Civ can splinter off the religion if they use a great prophet. At this point they can choose you own route in the tree, and can also modify the name, so you end up with the equivalent of Judaism, Catholic, Protestant, Church of England, Orthadox (or Shi'a / Sunni) kind of situation where most of the world religions are variations on the same sources, have the same holy cities and the same holy books but slightly different ideologies and views, sometimes at bitter odds with each other..
Wars over holy cities are going to be a common element to games of our mod, since a lot of the doctrine affect the holy city. Also it's not as clear cut who you want to adopt your religion. Supposing you go for religion purely for a culture win, have a whole bunch of doctrine that give you huge bonuses to culture in your holy city, and then you notice your religion spread into Mongolian territory and Genghis Khan announces with pride that he's become a Superian faithful. :| you know he's going to want that holy city off you at some point for all those juicy effects.
Garett20
Prince
Here comes the many slaves of Garettism!!!! I've always wanted to make my own religion.
Of course.
Totally. No techs / doctrine / policy trees are referenced in the Lua, it's all in XML. Even the definition of the Polytheism / Monotheism change over is XML driven, meaning a mod could have three trees if they wished (with the 'special event' nodes like switching to Mono having an equivalent boolean like the 'Repeat' tag for Tech, as will the Enlightenment tech to say it's proportionate cost to piety.
I can give you guys a head start.
Would it be possible to use some of these religion mechanics for a slavery system as well?
Galacticat42
Drifting through space, lost
In the city screen screenshot, does the piety number on the left side dynamically increase that window's height or statically like Kael showed in his guide? If it were dynamically then it would prove to be compatible with other mods that mess with that window dynamically. If it were static then it would prove difficult to make compatibilities.
Garett20
Prince
So how does it work? With missionaries? Across trade routes?
lemmy101
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Proximity to city / amount of piety generated by city. If a city has a whole bunch of them nearby then the chances go up as it totals up all the piety being projected onto it. Then open borders increase the chance, as do roads etc, as does being in your own civ.
Missionaries are definitely going in. Just getting them to work without the source code is tricky.
Missionaries are definitely going in. Just getting them to work without the source code is tricky.
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
Hey guys. Have you considered having the spread of religion-via missionaries-costing either Culture or Piety? I'd say the latter, but only if it builds up the same way as culture does. That would help prevent the missionary spam that occurred in Civ4!
You could also have some Monotheistic Doctrines (like Evangelism) reduce the Piety cost of spreading religions-either naturally or by missionaries!
Aussie.
You could also have some Monotheistic Doctrines (like Evangelism) reduce the Piety cost of spreading religions-either naturally or by missionaries!
Aussie.
lemmy101
Emperor
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Hi, well the AI isn't aware of the religion system at all, so basically we'll need to write a complete AI system for Lua. It's making decent progress, they found religions and choose (a little arbitrarily) the doctrine. We need to tie in flavours and such things and provide weights to the different doctrine once they're all in. As such though I'm not sure how effective they will be with piety generation (which requires building strategy and so forth that's probably pretty black boxed in the DLL) until the SDK.
Aussie. Nice idea. Though actually we've got a few ideas how we may avoid putting in missionaries all together. ;D
Aussie. Nice idea.
Though actually we've got a few ideas how we may avoid putting in missionaries all together. ;DAlright, definitely want to know the AI is competent enough to use the new system.
Some other questions, I hope they're not repeats:
1) How fast will the branches unlock? Looking at your initial trees, that's pretty complex and a lot of stuff in them (Monotheism looks muuuch longer than Polytheism). I'm pretty sure it will be tied to Piety, but my concern is that it will take either too long to unlock a new doctrine, or it will be so fast that (using hyperbole here) you will unlock another doctrine every turn! How do you plan on balancing the growth rate of the religion, that's what I'm trying to get to.
2) Will it be possible to re-name the religion should you choose to switch from Polytheism to Monotheism. Similarly, is it possible to have civil unrest (unhappiness, loss of production) for a few turns while the civilization is switching?
3) If I didn't read closely, I apologize. What role will the Piety branch serve in the game? Will it be a tree for happiness? If it stays in the game altogether, my suggestion would be to have those policies directly influence the growth of the religion. Do you know what I mean?
This mod looks fantastic! I'm not too big on Corporations and I hope that will be an optional feature, but everything else, well, it looks great! Keep it up!
Some other questions, I hope they're not repeats:
1) How fast will the branches unlock? Looking at your initial trees, that's pretty complex and a lot of stuff in them (Monotheism looks muuuch longer than Polytheism). I'm pretty sure it will be tied to Piety, but my concern is that it will take either too long to unlock a new doctrine, or it will be so fast that (using hyperbole here) you will unlock another doctrine every turn! How do you plan on balancing the growth rate of the religion, that's what I'm trying to get to.
2) Will it be possible to re-name the religion should you choose to switch from Polytheism to Monotheism. Similarly, is it possible to have civil unrest (unhappiness, loss of production) for a few turns while the civilization is switching?
3) If I didn't read closely, I apologize. What role will the Piety branch serve in the game? Will it be a tree for happiness? If it stays in the game altogether, my suggestion would be to have those policies directly influence the growth of the religion. Do you know what I mean?
This mod looks fantastic! I'm not too big on Corporations and I hope that will be an optional feature, but everything else, well, it looks great! Keep it up!
CaptainBinky
Warlord
Hi Putmalk, and thanks
1) This will just be a case of playtesting and balancing. The trees we've posted are very much work-in-progress - things may get streamlined or expanded depending on how things work out. The other thing to bear in mind is that the idea with the trees is to provide multiple routes through, so you won't be unlocking everything in one single playthrough. In the monotheism tree, for example, choosing one doctrine may disable one or more others that are incompatible.
2) Yes, quite possibly. We did consider this - we're not yet decided either way whether it would be better to retain the name for the sake of simplicity or allow change for the sake of realism. It's not set in stone either way yet so we'll make that judgement when the time comes.
3) The Piety social policy will be replaced by something else. We haven't nailed down everthing about this yet suffice to say that it will tie into religion system. There will be multiple strategies for improving growth of your religion and suppressing growth of others, one of which may be on the social policy tree as you say.
1) This will just be a case of playtesting and balancing. The trees we've posted are very much work-in-progress - things may get streamlined or expanded depending on how things work out. The other thing to bear in mind is that the idea with the trees is to provide multiple routes through, so you won't be unlocking everything in one single playthrough. In the monotheism tree, for example, choosing one doctrine may disable one or more others that are incompatible.
2) Yes, quite possibly. We did consider this - we're not yet decided either way whether it would be better to retain the name for the sake of simplicity or allow change for the sake of realism. It's not set in stone either way yet so we'll make that judgement when the time comes.
3) The Piety social policy will be replaced by something else. We haven't nailed down everthing about this yet suffice to say that it will tie into religion system. There will be multiple strategies for improving growth of your religion and suppressing growth of others, one of which may be on the social policy tree as you say.
